GEORGETOWN, Kentucky (Reuters) - As U.S. auto workers negotiate with the faltering Big Three under intense pressure to surrender benefits, employees at Toyota's flagship U.S. plant want what their blue-collar counterparts in Detroit have: union representation.
At least some do. Union drives at Toyota's Georgetown, Kentucky, plant have ebbed and flowed since it opened in 1988, with supporters battling to convince doubters that joining the United Auto Workers union will improve their lives.
The specter of crumbling fortunes at General Motors Corp. (NYSE:GM - News), Ford Motor Co. (NYSE:F - News) and Chrysler haunt the union debate at the U.S. arm of Toyota Motor Corp. (Tokyo:7203.T - News), which is poised to overtake GM as the world's No. 1 automaker this year.
Union supporters argue that the Japanese automaker rode to a $14 billion profit last year on the backs of its nonunion workers, while doubters fear unionization would leave Toyota as crippled as its Detroit competitors -- or provoke retaliation.
The stakes are especially high now as the three Detroit-based automakers, which lost nearly $15 billion combined last year, press the UAW for sweeping concessions that would bring their own hourly labor costs in line with what it costs Toyota to run its Georgetown plant.
Robert Bingaman, 53, didn't want a union when Toyota hired him in 1989. He had been a UAW member at GM until his Ohio plant closed and he lost his job.
"I was promised the moon when I hired in," said Bingaman. "But it changed through the years ... They started reducing back on things. We were keeping up with cost of living before, but raises started getting smaller."
C.J. James, 46, also wasn't a union supporter at first. She framed the Toyota job offer she got in 1988 and celebrated her hourly wage of $10.41 -- a huge step up from $3 for a security job at a unionized steel plant in Detroit.
But repetitive stress injuries she has suffered on Toyota's assembly line -- and the pain of watching co-workers break down -- have convinced her it's time to unionize.
"I've watched hundreds come and go, some so crippled they can no longer work, and they have to fight the company to get any kind of benefits or worker's compensation," said James. She now makes nearly $29 an hour, on par with UAW-represented workers and well above the average manufacturing wage of just below $17.
NOT ALL CONVINCED
In June, some 200 Toyota workers and union supporters gathered to discuss shrinking pay raises, threatened benefit cuts, injuries and the use of temporary workers at the plant, where 6,900 employees produce the Camry and Avalon sedans.
But many workers are not convinced and point to job losses at GM, Ford and Chrysler as proof of union failure.
"We do not want to be in the shape the Big Three is in now," said Brian Howard, a 16-year plant veteran who opposes the union drive. "People fail to look five years down the road."
Hourly labor payrolls at Toyota are dwarfed by those at the Detroit automakers, which are burdened by so-called "legacy" costs of retiree health benefits and pensions won by the UAW during generations of contract negotiations.
While GM has about 432,000 U.S. retirees, Toyota has only a handful. As a result, GM's average labor cost is $73.26 an hour, compared with $47.60 at Toyota.
UAW organizers declined to say how many workers have signed union cards, but admit they are short of the 70 percent they would like in order to hold a binding vote on unionization.
Howard said pressure to sign union cards is fierce.
"One woman said every time she sat down to lunch, three union supporters would pester her to sign a card, so finally she did," Howard said. "But she said, 'If there's ever an election, I'll vote no.' The support isn't there yet."
Toyota spokesman Mike Goss is just as sanguine: "These are decisions to be made by our team members, but we've had over 20 years of production at our Kentucky plant, and those team members have not chosen to be represented by a union."
AUTO JOBS HEAD SOUTH
Toyota has avoided unionization in part because it has built plants in rural areas where workers are grateful for jobs and not accustomed to unions. Toyota's newest plant will be in Tupelo, Mississippi, where poverty is entrenched.
"Toyota has followed a grand strategy of settling in smaller southern towns without a history of organizing," said William Maloney of the University of Kentucky's Center for Labor Education and Research. "Many of the workers feel that they've got a very nice deal in terms of pay and benefits, and they're not sure what the benefits would be to unionize."
Toyota worker James put it more simply. Workers in eastern Kentucky came from "nothing," and are too grateful and scared to speak up about poor working conditions.
"Toyota can replace them because there's thousands more out there," James said. "And Toyota knows that. They tell us, 'If you don't like it, leave. McDonald's is hiring."'
Anti-union worker Howard believes the union debate could come to a head when Toyota announces changes to its pay and benefit package in September -- around the time the UAW's current four-year contract with the Detroit automakers expires and a summer of intense negotiations will be nearing its end.
"Right now, I think the union campaigners are maxed out," Howard said. "If the wage announcement this fall is good, I think their campaign is dead in the water. But if enough team members deem it to be unacceptable, then they may gain more support."
Bleh bleh, whiney ass liberals is all the UAW is. Conditions arent bad at TMMK, you just got slackers who want something for nothing. They'll get what's rightfully theirs.
This is just plain stupid...if you think about it the worker's worst "enemy" is not the company but the Union putting the company out of business and the worker looses his/her job but its like a cycle. Sure there are other factors besides the Union but they are a significant culprit but anyway they demand more so the company has to compromise more.
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If toyota employees think about it, was there ever a case where the slime bags at UAW made everything better? shit. sure they can get the retirees good shit, but the newbies dont get anything more. You know what happens with those raises that the union gets? Most just see dollar signs, not the tached on fee of Union dues. MY MY. if they unionize they are stupid.
My mom took a 50 cent an hour raise with a new job inside the PADH, and after the union that she is under got done taking their dues, she makes like 25 dollars less a pay. grant it, its a good union, but the UAW is just as bad if not worse than the teamsters. they sank the Big three and now they want to kill toyota.
if toyota thinks the solution to critisism is building cars here, they are wrong. if they get unionized, only the worst will come out, tarnishing their public appearance. i love it when people try to make drama out of nothing. OSHA wouldnt allow an unsafe work environment. The constant threat of law suits prolly is a motivater too to make sure that all is well in the Toyota plant. Like was said, Just those slacking trying to get something for nothing.
I dont think that the Union has the strong hold they think they do already. Infact, just like that one lady, people may have joined just to get them off their backs, but will oppose all union movement. that is smart. (not sarcastically speaking)
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If toyota employees think about it, was there ever a case where the slime bags at UAW made everything better? shit. sure they can get the retirees good shit, but the newbies dont get anything more. You know what happens with those raises that the union gets? Most just see dollar signs, not the tached on fee of Union dues. MY MY. if they unionize they are stupid.
My mom took a 50 cent an hour raise with a new job inside the PADH, and after the union that she is under got done taking their dues, she makes like 25 dollars less a pay. grant it, its a good union, but the UAW is just as bad if not worse than the teamsters. they sank the Big three and now they want to kill toyota.
if toyota thinks the solution to critisism is building cars here, they are wrong. if they get unionized, only the worst will come out, tarnishing their public appearance. i love it when people try to make drama out of nothing. OSHA wouldnt allow an unsafe work environment. The constant threat of law suits prolly is a motivater too to make sure that all is well in the Toyota plant. Like was said, Just those slacking trying to get something for nothing.
I dont think that the Union has the strong hold they think they do already. Infact, just like that one lady, people may have joined just to get them off their backs, but will oppose all union movement. that is smart. (not sarcastically speaking)
While I don't particularly care for the attitude of the UAW, it is not them that has "sunk" the Big Three...it's the Big Three's past management. Too much reliance on SUVs, incompetent handling of defects, and general laziness in updating models is what has generated significant debt for them; the legacy costs just add to the pile.
I do believe Unions still serve a purpose, it's just that some like the UAW have grown to the point where they have lost sight of the original intent of unionizing...promoting better conditions and higher wages. Too many union workers now slack off because they know they have the UAW net to catch them. They themselves need to go through a reorganization like the Big Three is doing with its corporate culture.
While I don't particularly care for the attitude of the UAW, it is not them that has "sunk" the Big Three...it's the Big Three's past management. Too much reliance on SUVs, incompetent handling of defects, and general laziness in updating models is what has generated significant debt for them; the legacy costs just add to the pile.
I do believe Unions still serve a purpose, it's just that some like the UAW have grown to the point where they have lost sight of the original intent of unionizing...promoting better conditions and higher wages. Too many union workers now slack off because they know they have the UAW net to catch them. They themselves need to go through a reorganization like the Big Three is doing with its corporate culture.
Well said. Nevertheless, the idea of the UAW with Toyota scares the crap out of me since Toyota's well-being directly tied to my paycheck. (My views do not or intend to represent the views of Toyota or its associates).
While I don't particularly care for the attitude of the UAW, it is not them that has "sunk" the Big Three...it's the Big Three's past management. Too much reliance on SUVs, incompetent handling of defects, and general laziness in updating models is what has generated significant debt for them; the legacy costs just add to the pile.
I do believe Unions still serve a purpose, it's just that some like the UAW have grown to the point where they have lost sight of the original intent of unionizing...promoting better conditions and higher wages. Too many union workers now slack off because they know they have the UAW net to catch them. They themselves need to go through a reorganization like the Big Three is doing with its corporate culture.
Amen, dsm. . . . . You can also blame past management for agreeing to these overly generous wages and retirement packages. There was a time when GM and Ford were doing well and the UAW workers wanted a piece of that (and rightfully so). However, now that GM and Ford are struggling, the UAW is (or has been until recently) unwilling to give back during the hard times. The UAW has a responsibility to ensure the companies they work for are healthy and a viable contender in this global economy (as it relates to wages and benefits). This, IMHO, is the UAW's greatest fault. They are unwilling to make the needed concessions in the short term to ensure the companies long term success.
Should Toyota be Unionized? A part of me says yes just to level the playing field with the domestics. GM, Ford, and Chrysler are in a dog fight to regain (or sustain for that matter) marketshare, yet they have thousands of dollars per car going to benefits that the competition does not. These thousands of dollars could have been used for more content, better materials/technology, or simply to lower the cost for the consumer. The cynic in me says Toyohondissan need to share in this pain. . . . .but then I come to my senses.
Nothing but heartache can come from the UAW representing Toyota's workers, both for Toyota and the workers themselves.
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Toyota has avoided unionization in part because it has built plants in rural areas where workers are grateful for jobs and not accustomed to unions. Toyota's newest plant will be in Tupelo, Mississippi, where poverty is entrenched.
"Toyota has followed a grand strategy of settling in smaller southern towns without a history of organizing," said William Maloney of the University of Kentucky's Center for Labor Education and Research. "Many of the workers feel that they've got a very nice deal in terms of pay and benefits, and they're not sure what the benefits would be to unionize."
Toyota worker James put it more simply. Workers in eastern Kentucky came from "nothing," and are too grateful and scared to speak up about poor working conditions. "Toyota can replace them because there's thousands more out there," James said. "And Toyota knows that. They tell us, 'If you don't like it, leave. McDonald's is hiring."'
/quote.
Why would you unionize if you were going to get canned for it? In Pennsylvania, you can get fired for no reason at all. You sign at At-Will agreement with the company for employment, I am guessing these deprived folks in the south have something similar, and Toyota has used it against them.
On unions...
It should be mandatory in a way, this is a foreign company, that is really starting to scale up production, if the US Government doesn't see that it is paying the workers less on average(if that's the case) then it really is a butt ******* of screwed overness.
IMO, the UAW has outlived it's usefullness. The UAW is looking at nothing but dollar signs and would want nothing more than to sink their claws into Toyota and mile them dry, just as they have done with Ford, GM and Chrysler.
They will promise everything under the sun in order to get their foot in the door. Im glad that Toyota's employees are smart enough to see through the smokescreen.
When you have a good company like Toyota who takes care of their employees, you dont need a union. My parents worked for unions for over 30 years and they both have the same attitude towards unions, "all unions do is keep the deadbeats around".
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Unions had their place in the early 20th century. We're now in the 21st century and these bleeding heart liberals need to stfu. Guess some people didnt get the message after Hoffa.
That's why he lets them build there for less than what the job is truly worth. Toyota did what Ford did, and many others, and shipped jobs overseas to a location here they can pay people less. They capitalized on the need for economy in that area. And as you can read, they are all too scared to say anything about their working conditions.
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