Toyota slips in Consumer Reports' reliability rankings

[sciguy0504]

OMG! I'm posting bad news! I must hate Toyota!

"NEW YORK, CNNMoney.com -- The Toyota brand has lost its top position for iron-clad reliability, according to an influential Consumer Reports survey released Tuesday.

The survey dropped Toyota from first to fifth place - behind Honda, Acura, Scion and Subaru - in average vehicle reliability. The rankings are based on average predicted reliability for all models sold under a given brand.

Brands made by Toyota Motor Co. and Honda Motor Co. still dominate the rankings: Scion is Toyota's low-priced car brand and Acura is Honda's luxury car brand.

Consumer Reports said it no longer recommends V6 versions of Toyota's Camry or V8 versions of its Tundra pick-up because of poor reliability."

Click for full story: http://money.cnn.com/2007/10/16/auto...ex.htm?cnn=yes

[Lasse D]

I wonder what it is in these engines (V6 Camry and V8 Tundra) that has made CR lose faith in Toyota's reliability.

Originally Posted by sciguy0504

OMG! I'm posting bad news! I must hate Toyota!

That crap is getting pretty old by now. Don't you think?

[dsmnick]

In the past, because Toyota (Charts) products have so consistently proved reliable, the magazine would assume at least average reliability for Toyota's brand new cars, without waiting for survey data from owners.

But from now on, the magazine will wait for a full year of reliability survey data to come in before it recommends a Toyota product - as it does with most other manufacturers.

Finally they admit it! This is exactly why domestic fans berate CR...why give some manufacturers special treatment over others?

Ford, in particular, is improving in quality, according to Consumer Reports. In all, 93 percent of Ford, Lincoln and Mercury vehicles showed average or better reliability in the most recent reliability survey.


Among overall brands, Ford's Mercury brand ranked 11th, the Ford brand ranked 13th and the Lincoln luxury brand ranked 14th. Other than Buick, they were the highest-ranking domestic brands.


Mike Hardie, Ford's director of quality, predicted that Ford would take the top position in Consumer Reports reliability rankings in the near future.


Ford's quality has tended to be more consistent, with steady improvement year over year, than that of other domestic manufacturers, said David Champion, head of auto testing for Consumer Reports.

Good to hear.

[SILVERadoTACOMA]

Originally Posted by Lasse D

I wonder what it is in these engines (V6 Camry and V8 Tundra) that has made CR lose faith in Toyota's reliability.

Consumer complaints about them?

I wonder if they're referring to the 4.8 or 5.7L???

Aside from the few camshaft snaps, I haven't heard anything negative with the tundra v-8's or camry's v6?

[engineer]

In the past, because Toyota (Charts) products have so consistently proved reliable, the magazine would assume at least average reliability for Toyota's brand new cars, without waiting for survey data from owners.

Wow, this is just amazing!!! No statistically relevant survey should "assume" anything. . . the number should fall where they may. CR truly is rubbish. . . . . .

This does explain CR's recent blunder when they gave the BRAND NEW '07 Tundra a reliability rating (of "good", iirc), while claiming "no data available" for the re-designed (but mechanically similar) '07 Silverado/Sierra. I truly despise this publication. . . . .

One major reason for that difference: J.D. Power only surveys owners of three-year-old vehicles. But Consumer Reports surveys its subscribers about vehicles from all three of the most recent model years, unless the vehicle has changed significantly. If the vehicle has changed in that time, only vehicles built since the change are included.

If I'm reading this right, CR surveys any owner (so long as they are a CR subscriber) of a vehicle, whether it is brand new, or 3 years old (no redesign within those 3 years). This seems to me like the CR survey would skew positive for brand new vehicles (not old enough to have problems), and skew negative for older vehicles (more use/wear and tear). JD Powers ONLY surveys vehicles that are 3 years old, thus leveling the playing field. . . . seems more relevent, and accurate. . . .

[SILVERadoTACOMA]

Ohhh, I get's it now... derrr

It's not the engine's they're not recommending, it's the model with the engine

Ooops

[DietoRemain]

Consumer reports is full of crap. I have seen alot of the stuff they have said were NOT at all true, or very few situations... so eh screw em.

[Bakemono]

Toyota has had some slip-ups in quality recently, thats not exactly news.
Look at it this way though, Toyota ranks 3rd behind Honda and Subaru but they rank well better than some of their main competitiors.
#10) Buick
#11) Mercury
#12) Ford
#13) Lincoln
#20) Chrysler
#26) Dodge
#28) GMC
#29) Jeep
#30) Chevrolet
#34) Cadillac
Another key bit of info from that study: 34 of the 39 models named "most reliable" are Asian.
Also, the Pontiac Solstice had worst new car prediction score in the survey.
So, lets not be all "doom 'n gloom" here. Yes, Toyota has some work to do.....but they still rank considerably better than their American competitiors.

[engineer]

Originally Posted by Bakemono

.....but they still rank considerably better than their American competitiors.

How much of that is due to this:

In the past, because Toyota (Charts) products have so consistently proved reliable, the magazine would assume at least average reliability for Toyota's brand new cars, without waiting for survey data from owners.

But from now on, the magazine will wait for a full year of reliability survey data to come in before it recommends a Toyota product - as it does with most other manufacturers.

Who wants to guess what other manufactures get the same preferential treatment Toyota used to enjoy? I'd say Honda/Acura, Subaru, and Infinity. For a magazine that has so much clout, these types of assumption should not be allowed. A large number of consumers rely on CR for auto buying advise, and these consumers deserve to have actual facts, not assumptions. . . .

[CarShark]

Originally Posted by engineer

How much of that is due to this:




Who wants to guess what other manufactures get the same preferential treatment Toyota used to enjoy? I'd say Honda/Acura, Subaru, and Infinity. For a magazine that has so much clout, these types of assumption should not be allowed. A large number of consumers rely on CR for auto buying advise, and these consumers deserve to have actual facts, not assumptions. . . .

I've never understood that practice. Of all the things you can't reliably predict...reliability must be the hardest. I don't think this will hurt the Camry too much, because last I heard most mid-size car sales were of 4-cylinders, but the Tundra lives and dies with that V-8!

[Jegan_V]

Originally Posted by Lasse D

I wonder what it is in these engines (V6 Camry and V8 Tundra) that has made CR lose faith in Toyota's reliability.

Its actually the 6-speed transmissions on the V6 Camrys and the 4WD system on the Tundras. The AWD GS300 apparently has issues as well.

[Z28Wilson]

That's the part that got me laughing -- that "we will now treat Toyota like everyone else and not assume excellent reliability on new models." You would think that a consumer research journal whose methods and measurements are supposed to be beyond reproach would understand that this is not good practice.

Ahh well, I'm just one of those dumb whiny Domestic guys.

[ECHOKnight2000]

Oh no!! I must dump my Toyota now!!!

Toyota is going down! We're all going to die! The sky is falling!

Hopefully this will put more of a realistic perspective on things.

I found it amusing Toyota is behind Scion in reliability...Scion is Toyota dumb asses!!

[corolla1]

the camry 4 cylinder improved from last year's average to above average this year. it's not all doom and gloom.

[Bakemono]

Originally Posted by ECHOKnight2000

Oh no!! I must dump my Toyota now!!!

Toyota is going down! We're all going to die! The sky is falling!

Hopefully this will put more of a realistic perspective on things.

I found it amusing Toyota is behind Scion in reliability...Scion is Toyota dumb asses!!

Exactly. IMO there is no shame in placing 3rd behind Honda and Subaru. I have to laugh about the comments of "preferential treatment". Kinda sounds like domestic fanboy sour grapes to me.