I don't mean to pile on the bad news that seems to be hitting Toyota recently but I was doing some work on AutoblogGreen's second annual pick for safest hybrids and things don't look good for Toyota. Our pick for safest hybrid in 2007 was, for passenger cars, the Toyota Camry and, for SUVs, the Toyota Highlander. In 2008, it looks like the safest hybrids for the passenger and SUV classes will be from GM, not Toyota.
It's not even a close call in the SUV class. The 2008 GMC Yukon hybrid and 2008 Chevy Tahoe hybrid both got 5 stars. The 2007 Toyota Highlander hybrid got 5 stars too BUT... the 2008 Toyota Highlander hybrid got all 5s except for a 4-star rating for passenger safety. That's right, the 2007 Highlander Hybrid is actually SAFER than the 2008 version. We simply can't reward Toyota for dropping the ball there. These awards are all about highlighting screw ups like that and encouraging innovation.
As for the passenger class, the number are not quite in yet but it looks like the 2008 Toyota Camry hybrid might lose out to 2008 Saturn Aura hybrid. The Aura is a mild (some think that's too kind) hybrid and only improves the fuel efficiency by 2 miles per gallon but we think we might give it an extra point for finishing with crash test results equal or better than the Camry. I also think the lack of ESC in the 2008 Prius should lose Toyota points.
more at link. . . .
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As a fellow engineer, I would assume that you would be curious about what may have caused the lower-than-expected 4-star passenger rating in the NHTSA frontal crash test; and why there is a difference between the NHTSA's full-width frontal crash test results and the IIHS's offset frontal crash test results (which, by the way, rated the 2008 Highlander as "Good").
Could it be that, according to the IIHS (http://www.iihs.org/ratings/frontal_test_info.html): "...full-width tests are especially demanding of restraints but less demanding of structure, while the reverse is true in offsets."
Could you do some research, please? Inquiring minds want to know...
As a fellow engineer, I would assume that you would be curious about what may have caused the lower-than-expected 4-star passenger rating in the NHTSA frontal crash test; and why there is a difference between the NHTSA's full-width frontal crash test results and the IIHS's offset frontal crash test results (which, by the way, rated the 2008 Highlander as "Good").
Could it be that, according to the IIHS (http://www.iihs.org/ratings/frontal_test_info.html): "...full-width tests are especially demanding of restraints but less demanding of structure, while the reverse is true in offsets."
Could you do some research, please? Inquiring minds want to know...
First, you do realize that the above was a quote from autobloggreen.com (link I provided), and not my opinion, right. . . . (research is your friend!!!)
Second, there are vehicles that get top scores in both the IIHS and NHTSA test. If you don't like the results, take it up with them. . . . .but realize, people don't get to choose what type of wreck they get into. Full frontal or offset, I'd like to be in the vehicle that gives me the highest probability of surviving either. . . . The '07 Highlander provided that, while the '08 does not.
Finally, why are you defending the ’08 Highlander having less than a 5-star rating? It’s competitors do, why settle/defend anything less than 5-stars? Inquiring minds want to know. . . . .
__________________
-Behind every argument is someone’s ignorance.
-Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
I certainly am curious about Toyota's recent trend of slipping quality. I personally don't care about crash test ratings but they are extremely important.
By the way, you don't need research. Simply posting something makes it a fact.
I certainly am curious about Toyota's recent trend of slipping quality. I personally don't care about crash test ratings but they are extremely important.
By the way, you don't need research. Simply posting something makes it a fact.
No doubt, even a blind man can see Toyota's quality slipping.. slipping rapidly. I'm just glad I got some of the best products by Toyota Even when I compare my FJ's build quality to my Cressidas, my Supra or even to my 4Runner, its a shame.
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First, you do realize that the above was a quote from autobloggreen.com (link I provided), and not my opinion, right. . . . (research is your friend!!!) ...
Finally, why are you defending the ’08 Highlander having less than a 5-star rating? It’s competitors do, why settle/defend anything less than 5-stars? Inquiring minds want to know. . . . .
Wow! This is the first time I have seen someone blame a website for the opinion he/she has!
And why should I not defend the 2008 Highlander? Everyone knows that you -- no, autobloggreen.com -- will not. (Sorry, my mistake, I forgot that you have no opinions of your own, and that they are taken from others, autobloggreen.com, for instance.)
Thanks. Now that I know that you have no opinions of your own, I shall take my concerns elsewhere.
SO, model 07 has all 5 stars, model 08 doesnt, so yes indeed the all new model isnt as safer as before, if those ratings by those institutions mean anything at all.
Being at the top does have its downside...like this minor one...every nit is picked.
The NHTSA tests are only mildly indicative of the overall safety of a vehicle. It's tests are out-of-date by 30 yrs and they don't even test other key areas like rearend collisions. At best the governments ratings are recommendations.
The NHTSA website earlier this year had an entire discussion on the site about the fact that its ratings didn't predict much of anything since people were still being hurt severely even in top-rated models. It mentioned that its testing needed to be brought into this century to make the recommendations more accurate.
The IIHS crash test is more severe than NHTSA's in that it's designed to highlight the vehicle's structural integrity, as well as restraint performance.
The 2008 Highlander improved IIHS crash test performance from the previous model .
So the Yukon is more safe without a crash test with the more severe IIHS test?
The Yukon deserves a big INCOMPLETE until the IIHS crash test is available.
The IIHS crash test is more severe than NHTSA's in that it's designed to highlight the vehicle's structural integrity, as well as restraint performance.
The 2008 Highlander improved IIHS crash test performance from the previous model .
So the Yukon is more safe without a crash test with the more severe IIHS test?
The Yukon deserves a big INCOMPLETE until the IIHS crash test is available.
Yeah but stuff like this isn't important for people who don't have anything good to say. They'll ignore it like the forest for the trees.
Yeah but stuff like this isn't important for people who don't have anything good to say. They'll ignore it like the forest for the trees.
No, stuff like this is important to 90% of the buying public that has no clue what each of these crash test ratings actually "test". All they see is 4 stars, then when they look at a Yukon (or Acadia), Pilot, or CX-9 they see 5 stars.
This is as much of a PR issue for Toyota as it is a safety issue. Imagine a sales person trying to explain why this Highlander is less safe than it's competitors. If it's a matter of structural rigidity, why would Toyota no add the needed elements to allow this vehicle to pass with 5 stars? Toyota does its own in-house testing, and the criteria needed to achieve 5 stars are no secret.
__________________
-Behind every argument is someone’s ignorance.
-Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
The NHTSA tests are only mildly indicative of the overall safety of a vehicle. It's tests are out-of-date by 30 yrs...
The NHTSA website earlier this year had an entire discussion on the site about the fact that its ratings didn't predict much of anything since people were still being hurt severely even in top-rated models. It mentioned that its testing needed to be brought into this century to make the recommendations more accurate.
Quote:
The IIHS crash test is more severe than NHTSA's in that it's designed to highlight the vehicle's structural integrity, as well as restraint performance.
The 2008 Highlander improved IIHS crash test performance from the previous model.
Does anyone know if any vehicle crash-test program crashes a vehicle full head-on, like the American NHTSA? Unlike the NHTSA, the American Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) follows a crash-test program that is similar to the respected European New Car Assessment Program (Euro NCAP), which is to crash a vehicle on the driver's side of the vehicle only (offset, not full head-on). The Australian / New Zealand NCAP program started out conducting tests similar to the NHTSA's tests, but for the past few years, they have been following a program similar to the Euro NCAP program of offset tests; they made the switch because it was determined from observation of real-world collisions that offset crashes are more likely than full head-on crashes.
Like the Euro NCAP, though, the NHTSA publishes its results as a number of stars, with 5 stars indicating a very safe vehicle. Unlike the NHTSA, though, the Euro NCAP also publishes a percentage rating; this allows the user to better differentiate between a high-ranking 4-star rated vehicle and a low-ranking 5-star rated vehicle (the 4-star vehicle might have a rating of 79%, whereas another, 5-star vehicle might have a rating of 80%, which is very little difference that would not be visible by the star rating alone).
This test program difference between the NHTSA and the IIHS / Euro NCAP has been explained by the IIHS: "...full-width tests are especially demanding of restraints but less demanding of structure, while the reverse is true in offsets". The difference is visible when looking at the test results of such highly-acclaimed vehicles as the 2007 Mercedes C-Class, the 2007 BMW 3-series, the Volvo S40 and S60, and the 2008 Toyota Highlander, which receive 4 stars in the NHTSA tests, but "Good" (the best rating) in the IIHS tests. These are very structurally stiff cars. Stiffer cars, when crashed, are much less likely to have the car's structure deform than less-stiff cars, and they also decelerate to a full stop in less distance (and less time) than less-stiff cars. This means that a stiffer car is less likely to have the car structure (dashboard, windshield pillar, etc.) crash into the driver or passenger than a less stiff car, but it means that the occupant-restraint systems such as seatbelts and airbags must work faster and better (likely with more force, which Americans do not like) to absorb the still-decelerating driver or passenger even though the car itself has come to a full stop.
Will this lower rating (according to the NHTSA) affect sales of the new 2008 Highlander? Who knows? Only time will tell. Remember a few months ago when the new 2007 Tundra was in this same situation of a 4-star NHTSA rating but "Good" IIHS rating? Did that cause the sky to fall? Did it affect sales? Who can say for absolutely certain?
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