Toyota Announces "totally new" hybrid, intro in 2009

[toyotafanfan]

Toyota plans 2 new hybrids, lithium ion production


Hans Greimel
Automotive News
June 11, 2008 - 9:51 am ET

TOKYO -- Toyota Motor Corp. today fired a fresh volley in the green car wars, promising two new hybrid vehicles and the start of lithium ion battery production next year.
The two hybrids -- one badged a Toyota, the other a Lexus -- will debut at the Detroit auto show and come on top of the third-generation Prius car, also due in 2009.
Toyota didn't give further details about the upcoming vehicles. But Masatami Takimoto, executive vice president in charge of r&d, said the Toyota will be larger than the Prius.
"It's a totally new car," Takimoto said here.
For the redesigned Prius, Toyota will stick with the current generation's nickel-metal hydride batteries. The long-awaited lithium ion batteries, light in weight and high in power, will debut in Toyota's first plug-in hybrid, due in 2010, he said.

Source autonews

[ECHOKnight2000]

Nice. Can't wait for the Detroit show. Toyota is doing the one-two punch.

[RningOnFumes]

They better not do a Yaris class.... I'll be the first. ..or with a corolla class, they'll kill GM if they do.

[TRD-MX83]

they said bigger? hmm.. i want SMALLER... Yaris Hybrid or Corolla Hybrid would be perfect...

[Vmax2007]

Lithium-Ion huh? Hmmmm???

According to this site's resident battery expert, Li-Ion batteries are subject to cause fires and kill people.

Right Cheesehead?

Originally Posted by cheesehead91182

The Volt has the potential to be the Ford Pinto of the 21st Century.

[blacken]

Originally Posted by Vmax2007

Lithium-Ion huh? Hmmmm???

According to this site's resident battery expert, Li-Ion batteries are subject to cause fires and kill people.

Right Cheesehead?

and the flaming and taking thread of topic beggins




anyways two new hybrids ehh
fun times

but yeah people want smaller XD
even smaller
hell make an IQ sized hybrid
tiny little things

[Sulu]

Originally Posted by TRD-MX83

they said bigger? hmm.. i want SMALLER... Yaris Hybrid or Corolla Hybrid would be perfect...

Originally Posted by blacken

and the flaming and taking thread of topic beggins




anyways two new hybrids ehh
fun times

but yeah people want smaller XD
even smaller
hell make an IQ sized hybrid
tiny little things

If you want a Corolla-sized hybrid vehicle, the Prius is that size. There seems to be a lot of confusion about the size of the Prius: some think it is big -- the size of the Camry -- and others think that it is very small. Well, look at the dimensions taken from the toyota.com website vehicle comparison feature and you will see that the Prius is shorter and narrower than the current 2009 Corolla (but the Prius' wheelbase is almost as long as the wheelbase of the Camry Solara or the last generation Camry):

Overall Height (In)
Corolla 57.7
Prius 58.7
Solara 56.1

Overall Length (In)
Corolla 178.7
Prius 175.0
Solara 192.5

Overall Width (In)
Corolla 69.3
Prius 67.9
Solara 71.5

Wheelbase (In)
Corolla 102.4
Prius 106.3
Solara 107.1

Just because Toyota said that the next-generation Prius will be built on the Camry's platform does not mean that it will be Camry-sized. I believe that the new Prius will be perhaps only a bit longer (to increase cargo space and battery space) and a bit wider (to increase hip and shoulder room inside for large North Americans). The Camry's platform seems to be very versatile (underpinning the Camry, Avalon, Highlander, and Lexus ES and RX), so using it for the new Prius is likely a way to cut development costs.

I do not think that it would be economical to make hybrid vehicles that are Yaris-sized or smaller. The Yaris already consumes very little fuel, and adding a hybrid system would not save that much fuel. Adding a hybrid system to any car makes the following differences:

• It would use about one-quarter to one-third less fuel, according to current EPA figures. Saving one-third on fuel on a car that already uses little fuel is not going to be that great.
• It would add complexity, with much more complex control computer software required to make the two drivetrains work together. Adding complexity to a small car may not be a good thing; it would be more stuff that could go wrong.
• It would add weight. Remember that you are, in effect, adding another, parallel drivetrain, with a heavy battery. Adding weight to a small car will make it slower, harder to drive, and may, in fact, add to the fuel it consumes, so that the fuel saved with the hybrid system being used up by the extra weight.
• The added complexity and added drivetrain (especially the battery) will add to the cost. Adding $2000 to the cost of a larger vehicle does not seem that much more, but on top of an inexpensive, small car, that may make the small hybrid unsellable.

I think the way to go for small cars is to make them purely electric vehicles, by completely replacing the internal combustion engine + transmission + fuel tank drivetrain with a small, lightweight, efficient, electric motor + battery drivetrain. The range may not be as great, but it would very likely be (much) greater than plug-in hybrids such as the Volt or new Toyota Plug-in Hybrid. GM's EV1 had a greater range than the Volt will have. Comparing an electric vehicle to a hybrid vehicle and you have:

• The EV would be less complex, with only one drivetrain, and not two that have to be carefully controlled by complex software in order to work together.
• The EV would weigh less, since it would not have the heavy internal combustion engine + transmission + fuel tank that the hybrid vehicle has. The reduced weight would make the car easier (more fun, perhaps) to drive and save on resources required to drive the car.
• The reduced complexity and reduced drivetrain would be cheaper than the hybrid, perhaps not as cheap as the normal gas-fired car, but certainly less the hybrid, and likely still within the shopping range of small car buyers.

[Vmax2007]

Originally Posted by blacken

and the flaming and taking thread of topic beggins (huh?)

Yeah, NOBODY else ever does that huh? Besides, how was it off-topic? I was talking about Li-Ion batteries, which is completely on-topic.

[toyotafanfan]

Originally Posted by blacken

and the flaming and taking thread of topic beggins

[Vmax2007]

Yep, if calling someone out on their complete and utter bias is trolling (which it's NOT), then yes, I would be a Troll. But of course, that too is a one-way street, right?

[TRD-MX83]

To Sulu's comments...

I think for me, it's not the size only factor. I like the Camry hybrid, since:

a) it looks like a regular camry
b) it doesn't have that huge LCD and electronics like in the Prius.

So if Toyota will make a PRIUS, without the LED gauges, and large LCD in the middle and basically have a regular interior. that will be great.

Size is definitely one thing... but I just don't want/need or want to pay for the 6" LCD in the middle of the Prius or the LED gauges, or the touch button start. Give me a Corolla CE interior, with a Key, and hybrid system. (only change is like the camry hybrid, where there's a MPG gauge instead of the Tach.)

[toyotafanfan]

Originally Posted by TRD-MX83

To Sulu's comments...

I think for me, it's not the size only factor. I like the Camry hybrid, since:

a) it looks like a regular camry
b) it doesn't have that huge LCD and electronics like in the Prius.

So if Toyota will make a PRIUS, without the LED gauges, and large LCD in the middle and basically have a regular interior. that will be great.

Size is definitely one thing... but I just don't want/need or want to pay for the 6" LCD in the middle of the Prius or the LED gauges, or the touch button start. Give me a Corolla CE interior, with a Key, and hybrid system. (only change is like the camry hybrid, where there's a MPG gauge instead of the Tach.)

I love keyless start. Once you've had it, it's difficult to go back.

Fan

[Sulu]

Originally Posted by TRD-MX83

To Sulu's comments...

I think for me, it's not the size only factor. I like the Camry hybrid, since:

a) it looks like a regular camry
b) it doesn't have that huge LCD and electronics like in the Prius.

So if Toyota will make a PRIUS, without the LED gauges, and large LCD in the middle and basically have a regular interior. that will be great.

Size is definitely one thing... but I just don't want/need or want to pay for the 6" LCD in the middle of the Prius or the LED gauges, or the touch button start. Give me a Corolla CE interior, with a Key, and hybrid system. (only change is like the camry hybrid, where there's a MPG gauge instead of the Tach.)

I agree. I am considering what my next vehicle will be when the lease ends on my 2007 Camry LE. I would like a Corolla Hybrid. If that is not available, I would consider a regular Corolla or a Camry Hybrid; the last choice would be the new Prius, if it does not come with the full Star-Treky interior. Give me a "regular" car with the addition of a hybrid system. I don't like the Prius' interior, and the thing that really bothers me is the lack of a normal gearshift lever, because it would probably scare away my wife from accepting the vehicle.

I think the reasons for the Star-Trek interior are:

• The LCD instrumentation was put there to emphasize that the Prius is a highly-advanced, future-technology vehicle.
• The other electronics (climate-control, etc.) were put there to give buyers a greater sense that they were getting something more -- something they could see -- for the $2000 to $3000 premium over a similarly-sized Corolla. Toyota did that in the Camry Hybrid also; in terms of features, the Camry Hybrid is closer to a Camry XLE than a Camry LE. That tells me that these fancy electronics actually cost very little, so that Toyota can afford to give them away in a hybrid vehicle.

[RningOnFumes]

I'm not talking about others, I mean I personally would love to break 100 mpgs in a Yaris sized Hybrid.. And not just at peak, I mean every single week.

[blacken]

Originally Posted by toyotafanfan

im sorry i should know better

Originally Posted by Sulu

If you want a Corolla-sized hybrid vehicle, the Prius is that size. There seems to be a lot of confusion about the size of the Prius: some think it is big -- the size of the Camry -- and others think that it is very small. Well, look at the dimensions taken from the toyota.com website vehicle comparison feature and you will see that the Prius is shorter and narrower than the current 2009 Corolla (but the Prius' wheelbase is almost as long as the wheelbase of the Camry Solara or the last generation Camry):

All I know is I dont know why people call it small.
Its big and tall and bulky, and if im not mistaken they seem to get bigger with each gen.

compared to my little celica this thing is hunge

my car be
Length 170.5 in (4331 mm)
Width 68.3 in (1735 mm)
Height 51.4 in (1306 mm)

and prius be
Length 175.33 in (4450 mm)
Width 67.97 in (1725 mm)
Height 58.71 in (1490 mm)

Longer and taller much taller
that dome top just looks odd
but a smaller car would be perfect
even with the added weight of the motor and drivetrain adjustments
with the car being smaller and lighter than its counterpart prius
the electric motor will not need to work as much to move it
althoe this is just my speculation and wishfull thinking
maybe you got some weird math calculations back there i dont got
if yah do post them up, im always willing to learn more about toyotas hybrid system

Originally Posted by TRD-MX83

To Sulu's comments...
So if Toyota will make a PRIUS, without the LED gauges, and large LCD in the middle and basically have a regular interior. that will be great.
Size is definitely one thing... but I just don't want/need or want to pay for the 6" LCD in the middle of the Prius or the LED gauges, or the touch button start. Give me a Corolla CE interior, with a Key, and hybrid system. (only change is like the camry hybrid, where there's a MPG gauge instead of the Tach.)

actually those are there as a added bonus
toyota dont add them to jack up the price
they placed them there so people wouldnt feel ripped off paying for the prius
if they removed them prius would still be the same price