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2M views 2K replies 108 participants last post by  molson.david 
#1 ·
#4 ·
Actually no, this Subie will not have AWD if you've seen the concept Subaru displayed it doesn't have a front or center diff and due to the engine placement there's no room to have a front diff.
 
#6 ·
Yes, it is a high performance engine from relatively small displacement that will rev high so it will perform best when it is revved out and downshifted to the right gear for maximum torque multiplication.

For people who prefer "lazy shifting" in city driving where they want to lug around at 40 mph in 4th or 5h gear at 3000 - 3500 rpm, definitely it will be no bottom end torque monster.
My main concern would be an even power band. One of the gripes I've seen with performance minded Honda's is that the engines have a very narrow power band without a lot at the low or even mid range. In other words, on highway passing without downshifting or more normal driving it could lack that good "umph" that torque gets you while a lack of mid range power could make it feel lethargic until it really gets turning. that said who is going to drive one of these normally :lol:

That said, even if the engines are tuned a bit differently, 175 @ 4000 is pretty good for the midrange with horsepower maxing out at 6500 if those are indeed the specs, while the short gears should get it going quick enough that the lack of really low end torque that band is suggesting won't be missed.

The dual clutch won't happen the chief engineer already looked into that, the intention of this car was to support the manual and having DCT won't add any real benefits to a car that's not about 0-60.

As for the engine, there are a few good reasons to go with a flat instead of inline and they're all performance oriented. A big one is lowering the center of gravity, I notice this on my Subaru especially in the corners, far less roll and lean than many cars and I don't even have a WRX let alone the Sti. Due to this car being RWD, the engine is going to be mounted even lower and further in than in my car since there isn't a front diff to get in the way.

For mechanics I don't think many automakers put as much concern here otherwise we'd have less FWD cars, less V6s and more traditional cars. My Cressida is probably the easiest of the 4 cars in my household to work on having a long I6 and RWD giving the engine bay lots of open space, my sister's Civic being the worst...yes worse than the Subie because its so cramped and Honda just stuffed things in their location as an afterthought(alternator for instance often needs removal).
Oh I agree. If the S2000 is the gold standard for handing in a RWD four cylinder then it should best it despite probably weighing more (relatively speaking; the weights will be about the same if it is 2800-2900 pounds, but keep in mind the Honda was a convertible, requiring more strengthening for the chassis and thus a car that was heavier relative to it's size) due to the engine mounting.

And I will conede that automakers probably view joe blow not being able to work on a car as a benefit. My old 4AFE is so easy, whereas our Outlander's engine has more hoses and covers running around than the engine on the Space shuttle.

Now, about that price... that said, hasn't a lot of speculation been that the Subbie will be a bit more "premium" than the Toyota? If so I'm not too concerned. Just a shame I just bought a truck, otherwise by about the time I'm done college I would be looking at one of these in the driveway instead...
 
#7 ·
That is a thing of the past. Most of the new high-revving engines have a very even powerband making close to 90% of their peak power starting from 3000 rpm to redline. I can bet the Toyota FT-86 torque band will be flat from 3000 - 7800 ~ 8000 rpm.

My XRS has also VVTL-i that kicks in at 6400 rpm and sudden surge in torque and then the torque stays near peak till 8400 rpm. The torque band suddenly surges at 6000 rpm and most of it exists over 6000 rpm.

That is what defines a driver's car that requires the driver to properly being immersed in the driving journey. In return, it rewards the driver with the experiences he could not even think of in a "lazy shifting" low end torque car.

Personally speaking, even in 6th gear, there is plenty of torque down low to pass another car gradually at 70 mph. However, being an avid manual transmission driver who knows all the tricks such as, heel toe downshifts and rev-matching etc., it has become second nature to me to without even thinking selecting the proper gear.


My main concern would be an even power band. One of the gripes I've seen with performance minded Honda's is that the engines have a very narrow power band without a lot at the low or even mid range. In other words, on highway passing without downshifting or more normal driving it could lack that good "umph" that torque gets you while a lack of mid range power could make it feel lethargic until it really gets turning. that said who is going to drive one of these normally :lol:
 
#10 ·
"Front LED's are standard issue on the FT-86 High-spec edition. This version of the FT-86 weighs 2,712 pounds and gets, standard HIDs, leather seats, 6-speaker stereo, white RPM dial with shift light, sport pedals, 17s and keyless entry/ start. The low-spec version gets a two-speaker stereo, 16-inch wheels and weighs in at 2,667 pounds. Tires on the high-spec model are 215/45R17 compared with 205/55R16 on the base car.

Both cars get front struts with double-wishbone rear suspension (which we've seen before on the racecar), limited slip (when equipped with a 6MT instead of the 6AT), stability control, and a 2.0-liter boxer engine. The engine makes 200 horsepower at 7,000 rpm and 151 pound-feet of torque at 6,600.

The FR-S is 166 inches long, 69.88 inches wide, 50.59 inches tall and has a wheelbase of 101.18 inches."

Little torque at very very high rpms, mmmmmmmm.
 
#11 ·
Wow, that's going to be a pretty small car. Sounds like it is going to be a blast to drive. :naughty: Though I'd expect a little more torque out of it.
 
#13 ·
Compared to your college length essays, yes. :lol: :chug:

I'm really hoping Scion doesn't neuter this car and kill it with its monospec crap. This is the one car that Toyota/Scion North America can't afford to screw up on.

I knew you would write with a smart ass response:lol::lol::lol::lol::thumbsup:


Anyway, looks like by the specs this will be in principle a two door coupe Miata (as far as handling and size, weight). Except this will have more hp stock and rev higher. hmmm sounds yummy.
 
#26 ·






Color choices:
* Satin White Pearl
* Sterling Silver Metallic
* Dark Grey Metallic
* Crystal Black Silica
* Lightening Red
* Orange Metallic
* Galaxy Blue Silica

All photos courtesy of FT86Club.

Thanks for the pics. Usually I don't care for white cars or lighter ones (exceptions). But this does look good in white or lighter colors. Of course it looks good anyway. I know these pics aren't the best quality and of course when you see it in person its different. :thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
#28 ·
^That's like the old Cavaliers back in the day. Remember those black bumpers?

I was hoping for torque around 165-170 ish. I don't like gutless wonders. My 95 Mustang might only have a paltry 145 hp, but that 215 ft. lbs. makes a big difference.
 
#30 ·
It does make a difference. I guess it's all in how it drives....but if it can do a 0-60 in less than 7 seconds then it will be neck and neck with our 2000 Maxima (227 hp and 217 ft. lbs of torque, weighs 3250 lbs.) which has a 0-60 of 6.6 sec.
 
#35 ·
Somehow I doubt we'll get the unpainted bumpers, door handles, mirrors, in the US. Even the Yaris has standard color-keyed goodies and it's just easier to make them standard. That, and it looks effing terrible.
 
#37 ·
I wonder if they'll make two versions of it; I remember in 2007, Scion began offering the tC in a "Spec" version, where the tC was stripped of some features, notably the glass moonroof, cruise control and was given 16 inch wheels with hubcaps. That model only sold for two model years before being discontinued because it just didn't sell (not to mention that many tuners weren't interested in it to Scion's dismay).
 
#39 ·














It appears they've taken notice of most of the concerns any of us would have of this car. Torque while not a very high number is available quite readily. I'm curious at how spacious the rear seats are for someone of North American height both front and back, probably still not good even though they tried to address it...its still a coupe after all. The rear seats fold flat making it more practical at carrying large cargo than my Impreza funny enough.
 
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#43 ·
The BZR is December's cover story in Motor Trend! Specs:

Base Price: $25,000
Engine: 2.0L/200hp (est)/170lb-ft (est) DOHC 16 Valve Flat-4
Transmission: 6-Speed Manual, 6-Speed Auto
Curbweight: 2,500lb (Mfr. Est)
Wheelbase: 93.5" (est)
Length x Width x Height: 148.8 x 70.0 x 46.8 (est)
0-60MPH: 6.0 Seconds (MT Est)
EPA City/Highway: 25-27/30-32MPG (est)

They also said that "Subaru engineers concede there's more power to come from the boxer four", but will not confirm if a turbo version. Engineers also said it was designed to allow for a convertible, and that the platform can be stretched. Those are the highlights of the article anyway, with most of it focusing on analyzing the design and genesis of the car.
 
#48 ·
Hmm, it's estimated to be lighter than the Scion version? :confused:

Lol, I think you guys are spoiled by todays higher displacement, high output engines. This is a 2.0L engine, so expecting more power in normally aspirated form gets very expensive without variable valve lift.

My V6 MR2 has a 3.0L engine with 215hp/220lb-ft, so the power output is pretty good considering. If my engine put out 300hp from 3.0L in N/A form, I'd be pretty damn happy, alas it doesn't. My chassis weighs about 2680lbs, so this new FR car is pretty similar. Also, Toyota has been underrating their engines a bit as of late. The 179hp 2AR is actually closer to 190hp, based on dyno numbers, but it's also a 2.5L.

If you had a ride in my car, you'd agree that weight is the biggest fun killer in todays cars. Don't get caught up in the numbers game. Remember, the Elise with ONLY 190hp? Sure would blow past a lot of cars, and on a track, it's a weapon.
I agree. Weight makes the biggest difference. I think the low weight, high revving engine, and close ratio 6 speed transmission along with the low center of gravity will make this car a blast to drive. It'll definitely be quick. Not a hp monster, but it doesn't need to be. Plus the aftermarket for this car will be huge once it goes on sale.

^Yeah, but you have 220 ft. lbs. of torque. That's a LOT compared to this concept, and it makes a huge difference. If this car had more torque then I would be happy, I'm not as concerned about hp numbers.
I think if you test drove it and enjoyed it, you wouldn't be complaining about any sort of numbers anymore :lol:
 
#45 ·
Does anyone know if the Subie version is going to be sold in NA? I guess I'm kinda concerned cause as we got a glimpse of it, it didn't look too much different from the FR-S and it seems exact power output. Maybe handling dynamics are altered to what Subie wanted??? It will be interesting. A more powerful version:naughty::naughty:
 
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