Weight Distribution - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

SmokingTires · 03-26-2005, 05:50 AM

Ok, so obvsiouly most FWD cars are front heavy. I'm running a V6. I believe the weight ratio is right around 65/35. This isn't good.... I have a batter relocation kit on the way. That will be going on the passanger side to the far back of the trunk. I run with the spare tire in.

This Spring I hope to have time to strip the interior of the front of the car. I want to get rid of most of the dash. I am also thinking of adding the RMM Touring Wing for rear weight.

I'm just wondering if anybody else knows of anything that can be moved or removed to reduce front weight.

Thanks,
-Mike

onehotcamry · 03-26-2005, 04:36 PM

Ac?

***EKam*** · 03-26-2005, 04:56 PM

Look at his sig... his city gets snow.

Did you get a set of D2s yet? I think they'll be very good for auto-x.

SmokingTires · 03-26-2005, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EKam

Look at his sig... his city gets snow.

Did you get a set of D2s yet? I think they'll be very good for auto-x.

j/k

No, they're out of my price range (need money for Wyotech in Oct) and would move me from the Class I want to run in. I'm getting some Tokico shocks (sponsored)

I still have to do some research and find out what I can remove from the A/C system that wont affect the heating system. Otherwise that has been a plan for a while. I just need to implament it.

ANy other ideas?

BullMarket · 03-26-2005, 05:15 PM

Stock headers?? Remove them in favor of lighter and better performing ones?? Small...granted...but every little bit helps.

Oh yeah...turn your rally hat backwards under your helmet.

BULLMKT

***EKam*** · 03-26-2005, 06:31 PM

I think I meant to say there aren't much you can do to lift the weight off the front. But then if that takes you out of your class then I guess it's not worth it.

SmokingTires · 03-26-2005, 08:58 PM

^
WOO HOO! Ekam running Auto-Cross!!!
Yeah, I would love some D2's if they were cheaper. It would be worth the class change. But I don't have $1000 to spare right now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BullMarket

Stock headers?? Remove them in favor of lighter and better performing ones?? Small...granted...but every little bit helps.

Oh yeah...turn your rally hat backwards under your helmet.

BULLMKT

lol

They don't make headers for the 3vz anymore. I am probably going to make my own. Hack up some stock manifolds and bust out my MIG welder

CrawlingEye · 03-28-2005, 10:04 PM

c/f or fiberglass hood, new (read: lighter) seats for the front, remove cruise control (minor weight decrease), get a lightweight battery (again minor). there's a lot you could do.

it's ironic, you're removing weight from the front while I'm trying to lighten up my rear.
different setups.

SmokingTires · 03-29-2005, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrawlingEye

c/f or fiberglass hood, new (read: lighter) seats for the front, remove cruise control (minor weight decrease), get a lightweight battery (again minor). there's a lot you could do.

Instead of a lighter wieght battery, I am moving my Red top to the rear of the car, and on the opposite side. That will also balance out the car for the added weight of the driver

I don't have the money to dump into a custom fiberglass hood because I might be getting laid off next week. And I still hold firm on not having any C/F on my car.

I was planning on switching to racing seats either way.

I more need things I can move from the engine bay, or remove for that matter.

brink · 03-29-2005, 12:34 PM

So you're going to run in SM then? I believe that's the only class where you can have stripped interior.

Erm... Things you can easily remove for the race then put back on after:
Headlights, wiper blades, lower cowling beneath the radiator (might want to be careful with that one), head unit (hey, you said you were stripping the dash

, lighter foot pedals, lighter shifter. Probably don't want to mess with the airbags, heh.

Why no CF? Maybe I missed something... are you just opposed to it in general? I'm sort of the same way, but I guess I'm practical enough to say that if it offends my aesthetics but nets me faster times, I'll still use it at least for the race. A CF hood would lose you several pounds in one fell swoop. CF pedals lose you like a pound or two.

SmokingTires · 03-29-2005, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brink

So you're going to run in SM then? I believe that's the only class where you can have stripped interior.

Erm... Things you can easily remove for the race then put back on after:
Headlights, wiper blades, lower cowling beneath the radiator (might want to be careful with that one), head unit (hey, you said you were stripping the dash

, lighter foot pedals, lighter shifter. Probably don't want to mess with the airbags, heh.

Why no CF? Maybe I missed something... are you just opposed to it in general? I'm sort of the same way, but I guess I'm practical enough to say that if it offends my aesthetics but nets me faster times, I'll still use it at least for the race. A CF hood would lose you several pounds in one fell swoop. CF pedals lose you like a pound or two.

Yeah, I am considering moving to SM just because there really isn't anyone there. And I am in the groove for quicker times.

I would have a fiberglass hood if I had the money to spare. I just really dislike the look of C/F, and how everyone whores around it like it's gods gift to man. So I pretty much refuse to put it on my car. Eventually I will have a fiberglass one

Do the pedals really weigh that much?

brink · 03-29-2005, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokingTiresV6

Yeah, I am considering moving to SM just because there really isn't anyone there. And I am in the groove for quicker times.

I would have a fiberglass hood if I had the money to spare. I just really dislike the look of C/F, and how everyone whores around it like it's gods gift to man. So I pretty much refuse to put it on my car. Eventually I will have a fiberglass one

Do the pedals really weigh that much?

I gotcha, just don't sell yourself short because of a bias. CF isn't some wonderful panacea, but it does help in some applications that's all.

And no, the pedals don't weigh a whole lot, but every little bit, right? I got some sparco ones that ended up CF because the style I wanted only came in that. I happened to notice that the rubber ones together were about a pound heavier than the CF ones. Your car's may be different tho.

Also, and you're probably aware of this already but I'm throwing it out for others: in autox your weight distribution is probably more important than the weight itself. So, you could consider ADDING weight to the back in an attempt to equalize things. Alternately, you could change the rear suspension handling so that it treats the rear weight differently... thus giving the illusion of a more neutral setup.

Sure, less weight will help your acceleration, but it's my opinion that since it's the slow parts of the course (corners) that factor more into your time, if you can make your car respond better through neutrality you'll more than make up for any acceleration losses. Hell, just look at Miata times. Sure they're lighter cars, but I think the key is more that they've got a nice split than they can accelerate faster from less inertia.

wedge · 03-29-2005, 07:38 PM

The optimum weight distribution for a FWD racing car is about 60/40.
This is different from AWD, or RWD cars, which both work best with a 50/50 split.
If you take too much weight out of the front, you will hurt your acceleration because there is less weight over the front wheels, thus less traction.

SmokingTires · 03-30-2005, 03:33 AM

The 3vz engine is about a 65/35 weight split. I wish I knew what the exact numbers were so I could measure my weight lost.

I don't mind adding weight to the back. My engine has enough power to make up for it. So far I have only left the spare tire in. The battery will be back there soon. WHat other ways could I add weight that would meet SCCA regulation? (must be bolted down)

wedge · 03-30-2005, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokingTiresV6

I don't mind adding weight to the back. My engine has enough power to make up for it. So far I have only left the spare tire in. The battery will be back there soon. WHat other ways could I add weight that would meet SCCA regulation? (must be bolted down)

You're theory on weight distribution is wrong.
You talk about how powerful your engine is, and that a bit of extra weight won't hurt acceleration. That may be true, but you're not looking at the whole picture. Extra weight does not only hurt acceleration, but it also hurts braking and handling. To put it simply: The heavier the car is, the more work the tires have to do.

Perfect weight distribution only improves handling. It does not improve braking or acceleration. Being as lightweight as possible improves all 3 things, you will be able to accerate faster, brake harder, and corner faster too.

A lightweight car with bad weight distribution will always be faster than a heavier car with perfect weight distribution. You should never add weight to a racing car.
When you hear professional racers talking about weight ballast and location, you must realize that professional race cars all have a minimum weight which they must follow. So what their engineers do is make the car as lightweight as possible. Then use ballast to bring the car back up to the minimum required weight. This way they can place the ballast wherever they want, that will give them the best handling advantage.

Except for A and B Mod classes in Solo 2, there are no minimum weight restrictions. So you are much better off removing everything that you can, and relocating as much weight as possible to the rear. But do not add anything, it will hurt you much more than it will help you.