i have a 96 camry 5sfe and want to autox. i have a front tower strut bar and a whiteline rear sway bar in the mail. next is springs ( not sure if i want h&r or eibach) and struts. is there anything else i am overlooking? also who has the rear sway bar, how much does it help and where did u gat it?
rsb and springs make the most handling difference, but your list is looking good for the budget auto crosser... maybe get some better tyres next? :
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125 front wheel horsepower with major retard issues between 4500-5200RPM -
OD switched off, even when not in 3rd results in major power loss/rpm drop.
also who has the rear sway bar, how much does it help and where did u gat it?
I've got the whiteline RSB and I love it. It's helped my corner stability, weight transfer compensation, and just general plantedness quite a bit. Got mine from ctmotorsport about a year ago I think.
Only gripe about it is there's no stay by the bushings. My bar periodically has to be banged back into place because it slides laterally and eventually one side or the other starts rubbing against the frame. One of these days I'll get a buddy to weld something on there to hold it in place, but for now my car is sometimes squeaky.
Also, definitely invest in some tires. All the suspension in the world won't help you if your tires are poor.
Hell, how about just working on some skill
I ran (this last Sunday) on Goodyear TripleTred (740 TW) with a strut brace and came in top 5 in my class. It's more in the driver than anything. Just get out there and start practicing. That's 90% of the game
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i used to run on cheapo no name tyres,,, could corner at ok speeds, but as soon as it broke and understeered it was uncontrollable.. now i run on cheapo falken tres and DAMN i can clear corners about 40% faster then i could and understeer is very congtrollable and progressive ^^ tyres is the way to go.
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125 front wheel horsepower with major retard issues between 4500-5200RPM -
OD switched off, even when not in 3rd results in major power loss/rpm drop.
Hell, how about just working on some skill
I ran (this last Sunday) on Goodyear TripleTred (740 TW) with a strut brace and came in top 5 in my class.
Out of... 5 cars?
I've said it before, and I'll keep saying it. Tires, swaybars, and struts will give you the best results. I have done all of the above over time, springs too, and I can tell you that those three gave the best results. Last summer I had Whiteline springs, Tokico struts, TRD rear sway and some Kumhos that were pretty much comparable to what I have now. As far as performance for your dollar, swaybars. Best performance overall, tires. I can tell you now that I am having just as much, if not more fun than I did last summer. You'll have a great time autocrossing no matter what, but having your car prepped near the max in your class, getting competetive times, and simply building upon your success with driving skill is very rewarding.
Cliff Notes: Don't get springs. They don't do that much, and you'll get your ass handed to you in a higher class.
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If torque actually won races, wouldn't we all be driving diesels?
why no springs? do struts really make that mcuh more of a difference and would springs be good if i have the money? also do stock camrys have struts, where?
struts define the ride quality, control, stiffness, grip.
springs are jsut there to move up and down :P but with good stiff struts they wont be moving anyway :P
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125 front wheel horsepower with major retard issues between 4500-5200RPM -
OD switched off, even when not in 3rd results in major power loss/rpm drop.
Springs will give you less body roll also, but it won't be as beneficial to your handling as a sway bar would be. And like I said, it would bump you into most likely STS, which you will no doubt get your ass kicked in. If you simply want the best handling you can get out of the car, go ahead and get springs, or even coilovers if they're still available. Personally, I would rather sacrifice a little bit of handling in order to be competetive in my class rather than being at the very bottom of a gigantic class. I placed 2nd to last out of over 30 cars in STS one time last summer... that was not fun.
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If torque actually won races, wouldn't we all be driving diesels?
My experience with suspension goes like this..
You want to control body roll from the rear unless you have a good lsd (limited slip diff). You don't want to remove weight from the front wheel in a turn. Bigger rear sway bar is what you want. If you only do the sway bar without springs you'll end up just lifting your rear inside wheel higher and still have body roll. Body roll is bad only because it effects camber in a bad way (positive camber is bad). You can compensate it by running 2-3 degrees negative camber but then you end up going through tires if it's a daily driver.
extreme Budget auto X
Tires
Good alignment
Budget auto X
Tokicos with a linear rate springs that don't slam the car. (no eibach progressive springs unless you have progressive shocks hehe)
rear sway bar
Poly bushings to keep everything in check.
Auto X
Coil overs (JIC)
Strut bars where needed
Bigger brakes
LSD
front sway bar
More Horse Power
Credit card Auto X
A machine shop with staff
A pit crew
Your own personal tire truck
Trophy girls..haha
sorry I'm awake now..
I would do all these in the order listed except the trophy girls
hope this helps
Also, I just want to point out that the main purpose of springs is to hold your car up, the secondary purpose is to maintain grip with the road as the axle moves up and down. The purpose in life for a strut is to dampen the up-down motion of the springs.
This is sort of crucial to understand and internalize. It's not just your standard pot-holes, cracks, etc that springs take care of.. We're also talking rocks and small bumps. Say you launch in a small dip in the pavement: as you leave the depression you put extra pressure on the tires, excellent traction. Then you crest the rise of the dip, slightly unloading the pressure. It's small, but it's noticeable, especially with cheap tires.
So just take this scenario and mentally play it out with the different combinations of springs and struts.
Cheap springs and cheap struts, your car will unload more and you'll lose more traction, possibly skipping the tires.
Cheap springs and good struts, you'll unload less c cause the struts act to dampen the rise of the springs.
Good springs and cheap struts, you'll unload even less because the springs transfer the force more towards the car's chassis (the downside of the cheap struts is that when the spring relaxes (cause it will compress some) is that it will bounce more because the strut is less capable of handling the force. This can potentially cause minor skipping and loss of traction).
Lastly, with a matched upgrade of springs and struts you'll have the best traction because the spring will maintain grip coming off the rise and the strut will slow the release as the spring relaxes.
I think the thing that makes it confusing, and why people can get good results from one of the half-upgrade scenarios, is because springs can also act as cheap dampers, and struts can act has stiff springs. But really, you need to look at the two parts for what their intended purpose is.
Springs = Hold car up, maintain traction by transferring more force to the car.
Struts = Dampen movement of the springs.
This isn't meant as an answer to any particular application, but more as something to think about and use to make an intelligent purchase/upgrade.
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