94 camry le v6 the severe idling problem..

it was almost an accident, last Monday I drive my 94 camry le V6 auto
tranny, with 390000km on it on 401 heading warden in a traffic jam and it
was a very huge jam such that my car moved only a few inches each minute.

about half an hour since I got into the jam, that I noticed something wrong
with my idling speed (since I always put to N during stop), the rpm went up
to 800rpm which wasn't normal. so I stepped a bit on the throttle, and the
RPM reaches 1000RPM and didn't DROP down! it somehow freaken me out, and as
I put into D, I can actually feel the impact of such a high rpm the car
kinda had a very strong tendence to go forward.

I was so friggin, that I shut the engine and restarted it again, the RPM
still keeps at 1000RPM... then I did a mistake to even give a more throttle,
then it reaches 2000RPM and didn't drop down either.... I was totally
friggen out. shutdown, then restart, no use, idling RPM stayed at 2000RPM..

so I have to move on since it's not wise to stuck in highway with a
dangerous car, so I have to put it into D and drive on, at 2000RPM put into
D gave my car a huge impact, and almost crashed into front car, I stepped on
break very HARD to prevent it from moving on...I actually can feel the car
had a very strong tendency to go forward despite I pressed the break pedal.

finally, I managed to escape the highway and drove only on the locals at
20km/h with both emergency lights on. The car actually felt exactly as
someone was keep pressing the throttle pedel which if I let off break, the
car will get to up to 60km/h.... so I put it on the 2nd gear to prevent the
tranny from shifting to higher gears.. finally I managed to maintain a
steady speak at 40km/h with 2nd gear at 2000RPM.

and not far from my home, suddenly the RPM drops and the car acted totally
normal again, step on throttle the RPM went up and let off throttle the RPM
drops immediately.. wooooollaaa... problem was gone and I happily got home.

the next day I checked the throttle body, throttle valve, and see no signs
of stucking, or even if the throttle body was stucking, the gas pedal must
feel very soft as I tested to jam a screw drive into the throttle valve, so
it's confirmed not the valve problem.

it was exactly like if you give some gas, the engine will keep giving that
much amount of gas despite you let of the gas pedal. So if it reaches RPM
2000, it'll keep staying there.

it was an very old camry and I only plan to keep it until next year, what
service you people recommand to go thru? or does anyone of you know this
kinda of problem? I haven't been driving it for a week that being afraid of
the problem will come back again and cause more trouble. It seems that it's
been initiated during a heavy jamming and gone when the traffic was good
going through(locals).

THANK YOU

"grape" <zx@ax> wrote in message news:t8idnSM6tMtuPdXeRVn-tw@rogers.com...[color=blue]
> it was almost an accident, last Monday I drive my 94 camry le V6 auto
> tranny, with 390000km on it on 401 heading warden in a traffic jam and it
> was a very huge jam such that my car moved only a few inches each minute.
>
> about half an hour since I got into the jam, that I noticed something
> wrong
> with my idling speed (since I always put to N during stop), the rpm went
> up
> to 800rpm which wasn't normal. so I stepped a bit on the throttle, and the
> RPM reaches 1000RPM and didn't DROP down! it somehow freaken me out, and
> as
> I put into D, I can actually feel the impact of such a high rpm the car
> kinda had a very strong tendence to go forward.
>
> I was so friggin, that I shut the engine and restarted it again, the RPM
> still keeps at 1000RPM... then I did a mistake to even give a more
> throttle,
> then it reaches 2000RPM and didn't drop down either.... I was totally
> friggen out. shutdown, then restart, no use, idling RPM stayed at
> 2000RPM..
>
> so I have to move on since it's not wise to stuck in highway with a
> dangerous car, so I have to put it into D and drive on, at 2000RPM put
> into
> D gave my car a huge impact, and almost crashed into front car, I stepped
> on
> break very HARD to prevent it from moving on...I actually can feel the car
> had a very strong tendency to go forward despite I pressed the break
> pedal.
>
> finally, I managed to escape the highway and drove only on the locals at
> 20km/h with both emergency lights on. The car actually felt exactly as
> someone was keep pressing the throttle pedel which if I let off break, the
> car will get to up to 60km/h.... so I put it on the 2nd gear to prevent
> the
> tranny from shifting to higher gears.. finally I managed to maintain a
> steady speak at 40km/h with 2nd gear at 2000RPM.
>
> and not far from my home, suddenly the RPM drops and the car acted totally
> normal again, step on throttle the RPM went up and let off throttle the
> RPM
> drops immediately.. wooooollaaa... problem was gone and I happily got
> home.
>
> the next day I checked the throttle body, throttle valve, and see no signs
> of stucking, or even if the throttle body was stucking, the gas pedal must
> feel very soft as I tested to jam a screw drive into the throttle valve,
> so
> it's confirmed not the valve problem.
>
> it was exactly like if you give some gas, the engine will keep giving that
> much amount of gas despite you let of the gas pedal. So if it reaches RPM
> 2000, it'll keep staying there.
>
> it was an very old camry and I only plan to keep it until next year, what
> service you people recommand to go thru? or does anyone of you know this
> kinda of problem? I haven't been driving it for a week that being afraid
> of
> the problem will come back again and cause more trouble. It seems that
> it's
> been initiated during a heavy jamming and gone when the traffic was good
> going through(locals).
>
> THANK YOU
>[/color]
check the idle air control valve.
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply

I don't think it's the idle control valve... hmm,if it's so, then it should
not be consistant with my gas pedal.[color=blue]
> check the idle air control valve.
> --
> Ray O
> correct the return address punctuation to reply
>[/color]

"grape" <zx@ax> wrote in message news:_5idnXAj4fsg_tTeRVn-pw@rogers.com...[color=blue]
>I don't think it's the idle control valve... hmm,if it's so, then it should
>not be consistant with my gas pedal.[color=green]
>> check the idle air control valve.
>> --
>> Ray O
>> correct the return address punctuation to reply
>>[/color][/color]

I didn't say that the idle air control valve is the cause. I recommended
that you check it.

Also make sure that the cruise control actuator is de-energized.

Clean out the throttle body and linkage.
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply

[color=blue]
>
> Also make sure that the cruise control actuator is de-energized.
>
> Clean out the throttle body and linkage.
> --
> Ray O
> correct the return address punctuation to reply[/color]

speaking about the cruise control, it's been broken since 1999, never worked
once.... will it be the problem?

btw, I am a bit afraid of driving it again... it's kina very risky. and it's
shaking more than before during idle.

"grape" <zx@ax> wrote in message news:_72dnR0rXdsfLtTeRVn-hA@rogers.com...[color=blue]
>[color=green]
>>
>> Also make sure that the cruise control actuator is de-energized.
>>
>> Clean out the throttle body and linkage.
>> --
>> Ray O
>> correct the return address punctuation to reply[/color]
>
> speaking about the cruise control, it's been broken since 1999, never
> worked once.... will it be the problem?
>[/color]

Not likely. If you want to make sure, disconnect the cruise control
actuator at the throttle body.
[color=blue]
> btw, I am a bit afraid of driving it again... it's kina very risky. and
> it's shaking more than before during idle.[/color]
Take it to a Toyota dealer for diagnosis.
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply

"Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOT.com> wrote:

[color=blue]
>Take it to a Toyota dealer for diagnosis.[/color]

Good move Ray...I wouldn't mess with this...he might want to give
it to you!... :)
--

-Gord.
(use gordon in email)

"Gord Beaman" <gord@islandtelecom.com> wrote in message
news:co2lk19t0smtf6pts1307e5f135tg4n298@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> "Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOT.com> wrote:
>
>[color=green]
>>Take it to a Toyota dealer for diagnosis.[/color]
>
> Good move Ray...I wouldn't mess with this...he might want to give
> it to you!... :)
> --
>
> -Gord.
> (use gordon in email)[/color]

I suspect that this condition will be difficult, if not impossible, to
diagnose unless the dealer is able to duplicate the condition so various
components can be checked while the condition is manifesting itself.

To the OP: what was the engine coolant temperature gauge showing when this
occurred? What is the fluid level in your power steering reservoir?

--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply

the temperature stays normal, maybe only slightly a bit higher, since more
fuel is injected constantly.... but it's stays right in the middle, the oil
pressure is ok at that moment. Only my right side of the car constantly had
a loud *clunck* every time the wheel rotated... after this problem was gone
in the locals, the *cluck* sound fainted or almost non-exist.. maybe this
sound is correlated to the idling problem? It happened several times before
when I was accelerating, and this cluck sound can be dated back to 2 years
ago... hmm... maybe it's the key cause?

the coolant is ok ,and steering fluid is perfect, also the tranny oil, and
engine oil are all A-ok.

I got a quote from someone else who told me it'll cost about $1500 to diag
this problem... pugh... too expensive for this junk.
"Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOT.com> wrote in message
news:ad3cb$434a925b$44a4a10d$31816@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=blue]
>
> "Gord Beaman" <gord@islandtelecom.com> wrote in message
> news:co2lk19t0smtf6pts1307e5f135tg4n298@4ax.com...[color=green]
>> "Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOT.com> wrote:[/color][/color]

"grape" <zx@ax> wrote in message news:DPSdnTUaVuCxLtfeRVn-pA@rogers.com...[color=blue]
> the temperature stays normal, maybe only slightly a bit higher, since more
> fuel is injected constantly.... but it's stays right in the middle, the
> oil pressure is ok at that moment. Only my right side of the car
> constantly had a loud *clunck* every time the wheel rotated...[/color]

Every time which wheel is rotated? The steering wheel or the wheel/tire?

In either case, it is unlikely to be the cause of the high idle.

after this problem was gone[color=blue]
> in the locals, the *cluck* sound fainted or almost non-exist.. maybe this
> sound is correlated to the idling problem? It happened several times
> before when I was accelerating, and this cluck sound can be dated back to
> 2 years ago... hmm... maybe it's the key cause?
>
> the coolant is ok ,and steering fluid is perfect, also the tranny oil, and
> engine oil are all A-ok.
>[/color]

That information rules out some possible causes.
[color=blue]
> I got a quote from someone else who told me it'll cost about $1500 to
> diag this problem... pugh... too expensive for this junk.[/color]

That quote sounds pretty high. Did it come from a Toyota dealer or an
independent shop?


--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply

from some cheap local shop.... I suspect that the Toyota dealer will cost me
more on it...
"Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOT.com> wrote in message
news:6b807$434ab7e4$44a4a10d$786@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=blue]
>
> "grape" <zx@ax> wrote in message news:DPSdnTUaVuCxLtfeRVn-pA@rogers.com...[color=green]
>> the temperature stays normal, maybe only slightly a bit[/color][/color]

someone I 've read some article that the ECU injects fuel doesn't solely
depends on the air-flow sense. It mainly rely on the throttle position sense
to determine how much gas to be injected.... you know where I can find such
a sensor?!
"Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOT.com> wrote in message
news:6b807$434ab7e4$44a4a10d$786@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=blue]
>
> "grape" <zx@ax> wrote in message news:DPSdnTUaVuCxLtfeRVn-> That quote
> sounds pretty high. Did it come from a Toyota dealer or an independent
> shop?
>
>
> --
> Ray O
> correct the return address punctuation to reply
>[/color]

"grape" <zx@ax> wrote in message news:lcidnVjz6I7nZ9beRVn-3g@rogers.com...[color=blue]
> from some cheap local shop.... I suspect that the Toyota dealer will cost
> me more on it...
> "Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOT.com> wrote in message
> news:6b807$434ab7e4$44a4a10d$786@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=green]
>>
>> "grape" <zx@ax> wrote in message
>> news:DPSdnTUaVuCxLtfeRVn-pA@rogers.com...[color=darkred]
>>> the temperature stays normal, maybe only slightly a bit[/color][/color]
>[/color]
It would be helpful if you left the original post and responses in follow up
posts so people can follow the thread.

The cheap local shop probably gave you a high quote because the do not know
what they are doing and it will take them a long time to find the problem.
A Toyota dealership technician works on Toyotas all day long and may be able
to fix it for a lot less. I recommend getting a quote for comparison
purposes.
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply

"grape" <zx@ax> wrote in message
news:n4udnRn4VesKnNHenZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@rogers.com...[color=blue]
> someone I 've read some article that the ECU injects fuel doesn't solely
> depends on the air-flow sense. It mainly rely on the throttle position
> sense to determine how much gas to be injected.... you know where I can
> find such a sensor?![/color]

The ECU detemines how much fuel to deliver based on several inputs,
including the manifold air flow sensor, engine RPM, engine coolant
temperature, throttle position sensor, and O2 sensors, and vehicle stability
and traction control ECU's.

You can find these sensors at a Toyota dealer. Some aftermarket parts are
available at auto parts stores, although their quality is hit or miss. I do
not recommend replacing sensors unless you have tested the sensor and it
tests bad, otherwise, you may spend thousands of dollars and still have the
problem.
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply
[color=blue]
> "Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOT.com> wrote in message
> news:6b807$434ab7e4$44a4a10d$786@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=green]
>>
>> "grape" <zx@ax> wrote in message news:DPSdnTUaVuCxLtfeRVn-> That quote
>> sounds pretty high. Did it come from a Toyota dealer or an independent
>> shop?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ray O
>> correct the return address punctuation to reply
>>[/color]
>
>[/color]

final decision... dumped this camry... on my way to a Subaru impreza 2.5i.
"Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOT.com> wrote in message
news:ee379$434c9f37$180fead6$29003@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=blue]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> "grape" <zx@ax> wrote in message news:DPSdnTUaVuCxLtfeRVn-> That quote
>>> sounds pretty high. Did it come from a Toyota dealer or an independent
>>> shop?
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ray O
>>> correct the return address punctuation to reply
>>>[/color]
>>
>>[/color]
>
>[/color]