Alternative diesel fuel

My RAV4 has a 2 liter "D4D" diesel engine.
Here in Europe, diesel fuel prices have gone up dramatically, and some
farmers around here are using vegetable oil in their tractors.
Some day, maybe diesel fuel won't be available....
Rape oil in the tractor diesel smells a bit "fish and chips" (the
chips, mainly), but it works ok!
Would a Toyota diesel engine accept rape oil a a fuel, or maybe up to
a certain %?
If I just try and it does not like it, what exactly would be the kind
of potential trouble from it?
Tx

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 03:00:45 +0200, Keske Saram wrote:
[color=blue]
> My RAV4 has a 2 liter "D4D" diesel engine.
> Here in Europe, diesel fuel prices have gone up dramatically, and some
> farmers around here are using vegetable oil in their tractors.
> Some day, maybe diesel fuel won't be available....
> Rape oil in the tractor diesel smells a bit "fish and chips" (the
> chips, mainly), but it works ok!
> Would a Toyota diesel engine accept rape oil a a fuel, or maybe up to
> a certain %?
> If I just try and it does not like it, what exactly would be the kind
> of potential trouble from it?
> Tx[/color]


look up [url]http://www.greasecar.com[/url]

or Google biodiesel

I'm pretty sure you have to modify the engine; the oil has to be heated
and I believe atomized differently. Greasecar will be able to supply the
info and they sell a kit.

I can always tell when I am behind a Greasecar. i was behind a converted
van yesterday, and guess what?

It SMELLS like Fish n' Chips! (I'm not kidding!!!)

Or you could try here: [url]http://www.freedomfuelamerica.com/[/url]


"Keske Saram" <ringo@hotmail.fr> wrote in message
news:dp0uk1dn5vfuai59fno911dctkdagrqhs7@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> My RAV4 has a 2 liter "D4D" diesel engine.
> Here in Europe, diesel fuel prices have gone up dramatically, and some
> farmers around here are using vegetable oil in their tractors.
> Some day, maybe diesel fuel won't be available....
> Rape oil in the tractor diesel smells a bit "fish and chips" (the
> chips, mainly), but it works ok!
> Would a Toyota diesel engine accept rape oil a a fuel, or maybe up to
> a certain %?
> If I just try and it does not like it, what exactly would be the kind
> of potential trouble from it?
> Tx[/color]

"Keske Saram" <ringo@hotmail.fr> wrote in message
news:dp0uk1dn5vfuai59fno911dctkdagrqhs7@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> My RAV4 has a 2 liter "D4D" diesel engine.
> Here in Europe, diesel fuel prices have gone up dramatically, and some
> farmers around here are using vegetable oil in their tractors.
> Some day, maybe diesel fuel won't be available....
> Rape oil in the tractor diesel smells a bit "fish and chips" (the
> chips, mainly), but it works ok!
> Would a Toyota diesel engine accept rape oil a a fuel, or maybe up to
> a certain %?
> If I just try and it does not like it, what exactly would be the kind
> of potential trouble from it?
> Tx[/color]

The short answer is NO. Any diesel having a common rail fuel delivery
system and electronic controlled injection with multi spray deliveries runs
at exceedingly high pressures. Pressures within the injector approaching
25,000 psi. That's not a typo. The older mechanical injection systems like
the early '80's Toyota pickups would tolerate biodiesel well enough (only
1,500 psi operating pressures), after you swapped out all the rubber fuel
lines for teflon lined (biodiesel disolves rubber). In a current tech
diesel like yours, B20 is probably the strongest blend to run safely. DO
price out an injector and think twice about biodiesel. Also, "good"
biodiesel carries ASTM purity and performance numbers. Steer clear of
everything else especially home brewed biodiesel.

Out here in Los Angeles, biodiesel is NOT cheap by our standards and it is
derived from soy beans. So the smell you get still isn't nice. B100 out
here currently sells for $3.60 (USD) per gallon (US). Now B20 (80% petro
diesel with 20% soy oil) is $3.16. Standard petro diesel is about $3.18.
--

- Philip

In article <KpH3f.13603$vw6.11013@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
"Philip" <1chip-state1@earthlink.net> wrote:
[color=blue]
> "Keske Saram" <ringo@hotmail.fr> wrote in message
> news:dp0uk1dn5vfuai59fno911dctkdagrqhs7@4ax.com...[color=green]
> > My RAV4 has a 2 liter "D4D" diesel engine.
> > Here in Europe, diesel fuel prices have gone up dramatically, and some
> > farmers around here are using vegetable oil in their tractors.
> > Some day, maybe diesel fuel won't be available....
> > Rape oil in the tractor diesel smells a bit "fish and chips" (the
> > chips, mainly), but it works ok!
> > Would a Toyota diesel engine accept rape oil a a fuel, or maybe up to
> > a certain %?
> > If I just try and it does not like it, what exactly would be the kind
> > of potential trouble from it?
> > Tx[/color]
>
> The short answer is NO. Any diesel having a common rail fuel delivery
> system and electronic controlled injection with multi spray deliveries runs
> at exceedingly high pressures. Pressures within the injector approaching
> 25,000 psi. That's not a typo. The older mechanical injection systems like
> the early '80's Toyota pickups would tolerate biodiesel well enough (only
> 1,500 psi operating pressures), after you swapped out all the rubber fuel
> lines for teflon lined (biodiesel disolves rubber). In a current tech
> diesel like yours, B20 is probably the strongest blend to run safely. DO
> price out an injector and think twice about biodiesel. Also, "good"
> biodiesel carries ASTM purity and performance numbers. Steer clear of
> everything else especially home brewed biodiesel.
>
> Out here in Los Angeles, biodiesel is NOT cheap by our standards and it is
> derived from soy beans. So the smell you get still isn't nice. B100 out
> here currently sells for $3.60 (USD) per gallon (US). Now B20 (80% petro
> diesel with 20% soy oil) is $3.16. Standard petro diesel is about $3.18.[/color]

I see one of the top best gas mileage cars is a diesel. Does biodiesel
fuel affect the fuel economy? What does that soybean crap smell like, a
fart? I never liked the idea of food for fuel. We're making corn into
fuel here. Someday we'll pay a price where the fuel side will make more
money off a bushel of corn than the food side and food shortages will
ensue.
--

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 05:32:26 GMT, "Philip"
<1chip-state1@earthlink.net> wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>"Keske Saram" <ringo@hotmail.fr> wrote in message
>news:dp0uk1dn5vfuai59fno911dctkdagrqhs7@4ax.com...[color=green]
>> My RAV4 has a 2 liter "D4D" diesel engine.
>> Here in Europe, diesel fuel prices have gone up dramatically, and some
>> farmers around here are using vegetable oil in their tractors.
>> Some day, maybe diesel fuel won't be available....
>> Rape oil in the tractor diesel smells a bit "fish and chips" (the
>> chips, mainly), but it works ok!
>> Would a Toyota diesel engine accept rape oil a a fuel, or maybe up to
>> a certain %?
>> If I just try and it does not like it, what exactly would be the kind
>> of potential trouble from it?
>> Tx[/color]
>
>The short answer is NO. Any diesel having a common rail fuel delivery
>system and electronic controlled injection with multi spray deliveries runs
>at exceedingly high pressures. Pressures within the injector approaching
>25,000 psi. That's not a typo. The older mechanical injection systems like
>the early '80's Toyota pickups would tolerate biodiesel well enough (only
>1,500 psi operating pressures), after you swapped out all the rubber fuel
>lines for teflon lined (biodiesel disolves rubber). In a current tech
>diesel like yours, B20 is probably the strongest blend to run safely. DO
>price out an injector and think twice about biodiesel. Also, "good"
>biodiesel carries ASTM purity and performance numbers. Steer clear of
>everything else especially home brewed biodiesel.
>
>Out here in Los Angeles, biodiesel is NOT cheap by our standards and it is
>derived from soy beans. So the smell you get still isn't nice. B100 out
>here currently sells for $3.60 (USD) per gallon (US). Now B20 (80% petro
>diesel with 20% soy oil) is $3.16. Standard petro diesel is about $3.18.[/color]


Thank you, that's clear and complete info.
Do you think, Toyota is giving any thought at all to biodiesel, at
least in the long term? Obviously, there will be no way to adapt a
common rail engine. In case I have an interest (or a need) in the
future to use biodiesel, I shall probably have to get a different
engine or even a different car?

"Keske Saram" <ringo@hotmail.fr> wrote in message
news:eb6vk1lmfsvs5hab1211at7o02lbv341b1@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 05:32:26 GMT, "Philip"
> <1chip-state1@earthlink.net> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>
>>"Keske Saram" <ringo@hotmail.fr> wrote in message
>>news:dp0uk1dn5vfuai59fno911dctkdagrqhs7@4ax.com...[color=darkred]
>>> My RAV4 has a 2 liter "D4D" diesel engine.
>>> Here in Europe, diesel fuel prices have gone up dramatically, and some
>>> farmers around here are using vegetable oil in their tractors.
>>> Some day, maybe diesel fuel won't be available....
>>> Rape oil in the tractor diesel smells a bit "fish and chips" (the
>>> chips, mainly), but it works ok!
>>> Would a Toyota diesel engine accept rape oil a a fuel, or maybe up to
>>> a certain %?
>>> If I just try and it does not like it, what exactly would be the kind
>>> of potential trouble from it?
>>> Tx[/color]
>>
>>The short answer is NO. Any diesel having a common rail fuel delivery
>>system and electronic controlled injection with multi spray deliveries
>>runs
>>at exceedingly high pressures. Pressures within the injector approaching
>>25,000 psi. That's not a typo. The older mechanical injection systems
>>like
>>the early '80's Toyota pickups would tolerate biodiesel well enough (only
>>1,500 psi operating pressures), after you swapped out all the rubber fuel
>>lines for teflon lined (biodiesel disolves rubber). In a current tech
>>diesel like yours, B20 is probably the strongest blend to run safely. DO
>>price out an injector and think twice about biodiesel. Also, "good"
>>biodiesel carries ASTM purity and performance numbers. Steer clear of
>>everything else especially home brewed biodiesel.
>>
>>Out here in Los Angeles, biodiesel is NOT cheap by our standards and it is
>>derived from soy beans. So the smell you get still isn't nice. B100 out
>>here currently sells for $3.60 (USD) per gallon (US). Now B20 (80% petro
>>diesel with 20% soy oil) is $3.16. Standard petro diesel is about $3.18.[/color]
>
>
> Thank you, that's clear and complete info.
> Do you think, Toyota is giving any thought at all to biodiesel, at
> least in the long term? Obviously, there will be no way to adapt a
> common rail engine. In case I have an interest (or a need) in the
> future to use biodiesel, I shall probably have to get a different
> engine or even a different car?
>
>[/color]
Hah! New diesel powered vehicle sales have been banned (again)
here in California earlier this year, primarily due to the amount
of soot causing sulfur in the fuel, on the order of 25-50 ppm.
The rest of the nation has higher sulfur levels. Sometime next
year, California's diesel is supposed to drop to 15 ppm sulfur
which will put it on par with Europe. Even then, the California
Air Resources Board one other governing bodies are STILL
jaundiced against new diesel car sales. Without exception,
diesel fuel here has been as expensive ... if not higher ... than
gasoline for a number of years. The reasons are taxes and
political / legislative sweetheart deals.

I can only guess what Toyota is scheming with regards to diesel
here. I know of a number of people who would buy Toyota's turbo
diesel Tacoma pickup. Nissan has a similar product and similarly
held at bay by our exhaust regulations. Apparently, Mercedes has
seen fit to sell their diesel sedans in other states (notably
Texas) but the piezeo electric injectors are expected to
experience shortened life span due to the higher fuel sulfur.

As for your desire to use even an ASTM certified biodiesel fuel,
I would contact Toyota tech and pose your question. Without a
doubt, Toyota has run compatibility tests.

- Philip

(2003 Corolla - gasoline 1982 Datsun pickup SD22 diesel)

".DBU.," <foolishlefties@Zapem.com> wrote in message
news:foolishlefties-4924D9.04084514102005@news-rdr-03.rdc-kc.rr.com...[color=blue]
> In article <KpH3f.13603$vw6.11013@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
> "Philip" <1chip-state1@earthlink.net> wrote:
>[color=green]
>> "Keske Saram" <ringo@hotmail.fr> wrote in message
>> news:dp0uk1dn5vfuai59fno911dctkdagrqhs7@4ax.com...[color=darkred]
>> > My RAV4 has a 2 liter "D4D" diesel engine.
>> > Here in Europe, diesel fuel prices have gone up dramatically, and some
>> > farmers around here are using vegetable oil in their tractors.
>> > Some day, maybe diesel fuel won't be available....
>> > Rape oil in the tractor diesel smells a bit "fish and chips" (the
>> > chips, mainly), but it works ok!
>> > Would a Toyota diesel engine accept rape oil a a fuel, or maybe up to
>> > a certain %?
>> > If I just try and it does not like it, what exactly would be the kind
>> > of potential trouble from it?
>> > Tx[/color]
>>
>> The short answer is NO. Any diesel having a common rail fuel delivery
>> system and electronic controlled injection with multi spray deliveries
>> runs
>> at exceedingly high pressures. Pressures within the injector approaching
>> 25,000 psi. That's not a typo. The older mechanical injection systems
>> like
>> the early '80's Toyota pickups would tolerate biodiesel well enough (only
>> 1,500 psi operating pressures), after you swapped out all the rubber fuel
>> lines for teflon lined (biodiesel disolves rubber). In a current tech
>> diesel like yours, B20 is probably the strongest blend to run safely. DO
>> price out an injector and think twice about biodiesel. Also, "good"
>> biodiesel carries ASTM purity and performance numbers. Steer clear of
>> everything else especially home brewed biodiesel.
>>
>> Out here in Los Angeles, biodiesel is NOT cheap by our standards and it
>> is
>> derived from soy beans. So the smell you get still isn't nice. B100 out
>> here currently sells for $3.60 (USD) per gallon (US). Now B20 (80% petro
>> diesel with 20% soy oil) is $3.16. Standard petro diesel is about $3.18.[/color]
>
> I see one of the top best gas mileage cars is a diesel. Does biodiesel
> fuel affect the fuel economy? What does that soybean crap smell like, a
> fart? I never liked the idea of food for fuel. We're making corn into
> fuel here. Someday we'll pay a price where the fuel side will make more
> money off a bushel of corn than the food side and food shortages will
> ensue.
> --
>[/color]

I believe that top diesel was a Volkswagen TDI Jetta or Passat. I've had a
couple of occasions to drive (and do diesel work on) a 1998 Jetta TDI.

Biodiesel can affect fuel economy DEPENDING on the type of seed used.
Various seed oils produce more or less BTU per gallon. My experience has
been a small decrease in MPG. Biodiesel is VERY detergent and depending on
how strong the blend is with petrol diesel and the composition of your
rubber fuel hoses, will attack those hoses. So you need Teflon lined hoses.
Supposedly, all diesels manufactured after 1990 or 1992 have hoses that
withstand biodiesel ... to some degree.

I've got a tank of B99 in the ol Datsun now. Exhaust smells something like
the fumes you get when you squirt a bunch of charcoal lighter fluid on hot
charcoals ... and a bit like model airplane exhaust. There's probably a
better description. Soy does not make a pleasant smell that makes you
hungry, that's for sure. There is more benefit from blending soy oil with
diesel than there is from running straight soy oil.

--

- Philip