Certified Used Toyotas...

Hello all -

I'm shopping for a used Toyota RAV4, 2002-2004, and was interested in their
"certified" used vehicle program.

Would anyone who has bought a used, dealer-certified Toyota care to comment on
the experience? Is it worth hunting for one of these, vis-a-vis, a
"non-certified" vehicle?

Also, if anyone has purchased a used, certified Toyota and had problems, were
they resolved satisfactorily under the warranty program?

Thanks,
- John

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 17:51:19 +0000, John Albert wrote:
[color=blue]
> Hello all -
>
> I'm shopping for a used Toyota RAV4, 2002-2004, and was interested in their
> "certified" used vehicle program.
>
> Would anyone who has bought a used, dealer-certified Toyota care to comment on
> the experience? Is it worth hunting for one of these, vis-a-vis, a
> "non-certified" vehicle?
>
> Also, if anyone has purchased a used, certified Toyota and had problems, were
> they resolved satisfactorily under the warranty program?
>
> Thanks,
> - John[/color]

I can't remember the particulars, but in order to be Certified, the car:

Can't have ever been in an accident.
Gets a THOROUGH cleaning, up to removing the seats and carpeting if
required.
Gets ALL fluids changed.
Goes through a 200 point inspection (100 point is usual for non ceritfied)
Has tires with no less than 75% tread remaining.
Any belts, hoses, etc are replaced if they even look worn, or the
lettering is missing.
Also gets a warranty. I can't remember if it's 1,2 or 3 years, three years
36,000 miles seems to stick in my head.
in addition, these cars get inspected by a Toyota rep bedore being deemed
Certified.

Half of my duties involve doing all the certificatoins for the used car lot
at out dealership. There is a litany of items that need to pass, around 180
or so. I'm not going to list them all, but here is the short of what I look
for every day:


-Everythig has to work. I know that's a broad statement, but thats it. All
the little gadgets, lights, accessories, levers, switches, engine
mechanicals, so on and so forth. If anything is broken, missing, scuffed,
or scratched, I replace it. And, all four tires have to match with 5/32"
tread remaining.
-I check under the valve cover for sludge. This is a particular item of
note on the 1MZ-FE V6, as everyone here will tell you.
-All recalls must be complete.
-Accident damage. Here are the specifics - the car cannot have any more
than 3 body panels (excluding bumpers) repainted "by standard bodyshop
practice". This means that if three panels were just blended to cover up a
big scratch, it would pass. But if three panels were missing VIN stickers
and had tape marks around the edges, it is not eligible. Frame damage of
any kind is a disqualification. Same for flood damage.

Personally, I think we sell nice cars at my dealership. The average
bill per Certified car is around $1000.00, and I kick about 20% of the
potential canditates to the curb. I do enjoy knowing that folks who aren't
real knowledgeable about how to get a nice car can get a good one after I'm
done sorting them out.

John Albert, 10/15/2005,1:51:19 PM, wrote:
[color=blue]
> Hello all -
>
> I'm shopping for a used Toyota RAV4, 2002-2004, and was interested in
> their "certified" used vehicle program.
>
> Would anyone who has bought a used, dealer-certified Toyota care to
> comment on the experience? Is it worth hunting for one of these,
> vis-a-vis, a "non-certified" vehicle?
>
> Also, if anyone has purchased a used, certified Toyota and had
> problems, were they resolved satisfactorily under the warranty
> program?
>
> Thanks,
> - John[/color]

I bought a 1997 Toyota Camry LE 4 with 62K three years ago. It had a
90 day warranty and I believe it was certified. I noticed smoke
blowing out the tailpipe in the mornings. They checked it out and
basically rebuilt the engine. New valve stem seals, piston rings, rod
bearings and a few other things. They had the car for two weeks and
loaned me a Prius to drive. The Camry has been okay since that time.

--
"Golf is the hardest game in the world to play, and the easiest to
cheat at." -- Dave Hill

In article <43514197.E328CDAE@snet.net>, John Albert
<j.albert@snet.net> wrote:
[color=blue]
> Hello all -
>
> I'm shopping for a used Toyota RAV4, 2002-2004, and was interested in their
> "certified" used vehicle program.
>
> Would anyone who has bought a used, dealer-certified Toyota care to comment on
> the experience? Is it worth hunting for one of these, vis-a-vis, a
> "non-certified" vehicle?
>
> Also, if anyone has purchased a used, certified Toyota and had problems, were
> they resolved satisfactorily under the warranty program?[/color]

I bought my '98 Avalon as it came in from a 3-year lease. The dealer
ran it through the certification p4rocess, and I bought the 6-year
powertrain warranty as well.

The factory's 36-month, 36,000-mile bumper-to-bumper warranty had
expired a day or two before I bought the car, of course. That's a
drawback to buying off a 3-year lease.

I'd had the car about 6 months when the 98's well-known A/C bug kicked
in. It's an expensive repair, and it's not a powertrain issue. My
dealer fixed it free.

That's why I went back to him to buy the '05 Prius as a replacement for
my wife's Forester.

Best wishes, John.

Brent

I thought the certifieds had a 5 (or 6) year 100k mile warranty. The
clock starts when the car was (first) put into service. Which usually
leaves you very little time and you usually pay 1500 more for a
certified. Not worth it to me.

CP

I thought the certifieds had a 5 (or 6) year 100k mile warranty. The
clock starts when the car was (first) put into service. Which usually
leaves you very little time and you usually pay 1500 more for a
certified. Not worth it to me.

CP

Thanks for the info....found your post very informative
dc


[color=blue]
> Half of my duties involve doing all the certificatoins for
> the used car lot at out dealership. There is a litany of
> items that need to pass, around 180 or so. I'm not going to
> list them all, but here is the short of what I look for
> every day:
>
>
> -Everythig has to work. I know that's a broad statement,
> but thats it. All the little gadgets, lights, accessories,
> levers, switches, engine mechanicals, so on and so forth.
> If anything is broken, missing, scuffed, or scratched, I
> replace it. And, all four tires have to match with 5/32"
> tread remaining.
> -I check under the valve cover for sludge. This is a
> particular item of note on the 1MZ-FE V6, as everyone here
> will tell you. -All recalls must be complete.
> -Accident damage. Here are the specifics - the car cannot
> have any more than 3 body panels (excluding bumpers)
> repainted "by standard bodyshop practice". This means that
> if three panels were just blended to cover up a big
> scratch, it would pass. But if three panels were missing
> VIN stickers and had tape marks around the edges, it is not
> eligible. Frame damage of any kind is a disqualification.
> Same for flood damage.
>
> Personally, I think we sell nice cars at my dealership.
> The average
> bill per Certified car is around $1000.00, and I kick about
> 20% of the potential canditates to the curb. I do enjoy
> knowing that folks who aren't real knowledgeable about how
> to get a nice car can get a good one after I'm done sorting
> them out.
>
>[/color]

gslim wrote:
<< Half of my duties involve doing all the certificatoins for the used car lot
at out dealership. There is a litany of items that need to pass, around 180 or
so. I'm not going to list them all, but here is the short of what I look for
every day:
-Everythig has to work. I know that's a broad statement, but thats it. All
the little gadgets, lights, accessories, levers, switches, engine mechanicals,
so on and so forth. If anything is broken, missing, scuffed, or scratched, I
replace it. And, all four tires have to match with 5/32" tread remaining.
-I check under the valve cover for sludge. This is a particular item of note
on the 1MZ-FE V6, as everyone here will tell you. -All recalls must be
complete.
-Accident damage. Here are the specifics - the car cannot have any more than
3 body panels (excluding bumpers) repainted "by standard bodyshop practice".
This means that if three panels were just blended to cover up a big scratch,
it would pass. But if three panels were missing VIN stickers and had tape
marks around the edges, it is not eligible. Frame damage of any kind is a
disqualification. Same for flood damage.
Personally, I think we sell nice cars at my dealership. The average bill
per Certified car is around $1000.00, and I kick about 20% of the potential
canditates to the curb. I do enjoy knowing that folks who aren't real
knowledgeable about how to get a nice car can get a good one after I'm done
sorting them out. >>

Thanks very much for your detailed reply.

Hmm... one thing you didn't mention.... this is for a _Toyota_ dealership?

You said "the average bill per Certified car is around $1,000". Does that mean
that I should expect a dealership to tack on a "premium" of about $1k over
blue book retail value for the privelege of owning a Certifed car? Or would it
be somewhat less (perhaps depending on what had been required to get the car
"up to" certified status), or even "negotiable"?

I'm kind of split right now between buying either a Certified "L" version RAV
from around 2002 (which will have about 80,000 warranted miles left), or
perhaps a non-certified '04, which will have the balance of the original
warranty. I put a lot of miles on a car every year (minimum of 25,000), so the
highest-mileage warranty is what I'm after. The "length of time" a warranty
lasts has no application to me - I will _always_ "run the warranty out"
mileage-wise first.

I actually wonder - warranty-wise - if I'll get _better_ coverage by looking
for an 02/03 "Certified" with 20,000 miles or less (they seem to be out
there), vis-a-vis an 04 with 20-25k miles (and only 10-15k miles left on the
factory warranty).

Thanks again for your reply...
- John

You could absolutely expect a Toyota dealer to charge a premium price for
certified car, but not above whatever the market price is. Most of the
cars on this lot sell at or very close to KBBs 'excelent' condition price.
You could certainly find a cheaper price on a newer Toyota on another
dealers lot or from a private owner, and you can find one that is in just
as good shape as the Toyota Certified cars.... you just have to know what
to look for. This is basically the service that Toyota dealers charge the
small premium for on their certified cars; you know you are getting a
straight car that should leave you no or very little suprises down the
road. I think that is the primary benefit to the average consumer who is
not trained to spot excessive mechanical wear & tear and repaired body
damage.
But to answer your original question, you shouldn't pay any more than
what the highest used car market value is for any particular model.

A few years ago my wife and I considered looking at a couple of Lexus's at
Carmax. Top of the line models. Anyway they stunk so much of smoke we
stuck with new cars.


"qslim" <Suckers@suckersdotcom> wrote in message
news:bc82c9fd58a72ea8a3741bb74f9650f4@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...[color=blue]
> Half of my duties involve doing all the certificatoins for the used car
> lot
> at out dealership. There is a litany of items that need to pass, around
> 180
> or so. I'm not going to list them all, but here is the short of what I
> look
> for every day:
>
>
> -Everythig has to work. I know that's a broad statement, but thats it. All
> the little gadgets, lights, accessories, levers, switches, engine
> mechanicals, so on and so forth. If anything is broken, missing, scuffed,
> or scratched, I replace it. And, all four tires have to match with 5/32"
> tread remaining.
> -I check under the valve cover for sludge. This is a particular item of
> note on the 1MZ-FE V6, as everyone here will tell you.
> -All recalls must be complete.
> -Accident damage. Here are the specifics - the car cannot have any more
> than 3 body panels (excluding bumpers) repainted "by standard bodyshop
> practice". This means that if three panels were just blended to cover up a
> big scratch, it would pass. But if three panels were missing VIN stickers
> and had tape marks around the edges, it is not eligible. Frame damage of
> any kind is a disqualification. Same for flood damage.
>
> Personally, I think we sell nice cars at my dealership. The average
> bill per Certified car is around $1000.00, and I kick about 20% of the
> potential canditates to the curb. I do enjoy knowing that folks who aren't
> real knowledgeable about how to get a nice car can get a good one after
> I'm
> done sorting them out.
>[/color]

On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 00:55:31 +0000, Art wrote:
[color=blue]
> A few years ago my wife and I considered looking at a couple of Lexus's at
> Carmax. Top of the line models. Anyway they stunk so much of smoke we
> stuck with new cars.[/color]

Ve haff vays to mak you tal...er of removing smoke odors.

What I generally do is open the car doors usually overnight, and then
'bomb' it with a Stink Bomb (deodorizer) but these have a smell of their
own and some people (myself included) may not loike it. So, I leave it
open again and then run an ionizer on it. An ionizer is something like a
Jacob's Ladder (the thing in the old SciFi movies where an arc climbs up
between two pieces of wire). It creates 'ioniozed' are, or ozone, like the
smell yuou get after something arcs. The ionozed air is blown into the car
with a fan and neutralizes everything. It kind of smells like a spring day
when you're done.

I have had 2 cars where NOTHING worked; I don't know if these people kept
their dogs in the cars 24/7, but, especially a Volkswagen Jetta wagon that
was loaded with dog hair, after 2 days open, being bombed and running the
ionizer for 48 hours we still couldn't get the smell out. The sales
manager called me over to see what I could do with a car they sold, and I
took one look at it (the Jetta) and said, "Oh, boy". I told him the story
and the Service Manager, who had been listening in told him, "48 Hours on
an Ionizer? You're ph@cked!" Volkswagens did seem to be the worst for
removing odors. Usually I can get tobacco smels out no problem.

Guess Carmax either didn't care, didn't have the right equipment, or the
people didn't know what they were doing...
[color=blue]
>
>
> "qslim" <Suckers@suckersdotcom> wrote in message
> news:bc82c9fd58a72ea8a3741bb74f9650f4@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...[color=green]
>> Half of my duties involve doing all the certificatoins for the used car
>> lot
>> at out dealership. There is a litany of items that need to pass, around
>> 180
>> or so. I'm not going to list them all, but here is the short of what I
>> look
>> for every day:
>>
>>
>> -Everythig has to work. I know that's a broad statement, but thats it.
>> All the little gadgets, lights, accessories, levers, switches, engine
>> mechanicals, so on and so forth. If anything is broken, missing,
>> scuffed, or scratched, I replace it. And, all four tires have to match
>> with 5/32" tread remaining.
>> -I check under the valve cover for sludge. This is a particular item of
>> note on the 1MZ-FE V6, as everyone here will tell you. -All recalls
>> must be complete.
>> -Accident damage. Here are the specifics - the car cannot have any more
>> than 3 body panels (excluding bumpers) repainted "by standard bodyshop
>> practice". This means that if three panels were just blended to cover
>> up a big scratch, it would pass. But if three panels were missing VIN
>> stickers and had tape marks around the edges, it is not eligible. Frame
>> damage of any kind is a disqualification. Same for flood damage.
>>
>> Personally, I think we sell nice cars at my dealership. The average
>> bill per Certified car is around $1000.00, and I kick about 20% of the
>> potential canditates to the curb. I do enjoy knowing that folks who
>> aren't real knowledgeable about how to get a nice car can get a good
>> one after I'm
>> done sorting them out.
>>[/color][/color]

....sst: John, do you think there might be a more honest appraisal in
"suckers@suckersdotcom ;-)

Art, 10/16/2005,8:55:31 PM, wrote:
[color=blue]
>
> A few years ago my wife and I considered looking at a couple of
> Lexus's at Carmax. Top of the line models. Anyway they stunk so
> much of smoke we stuck with new cars.[/color]

Was this before your hated Avalon or after?

--
"The reason the pro tells you to keep your head down is so you can't
see him laughing." -- Phyllis Diller

John,

I had a bad experience buying certified. I'm a skeptic now. You'll be
paying a premium for the "certified" label. Carefully consider the
value you'll get from spending an extra $1000 or more. And consider too
that you may do just as well buying a new car.

I wish I had priced it all out ahead of time using information on the
web, so that would be my advice to you. Make sure you use the NADA
Guide in addition to Kelly Blue Book because the prices really differ.

And make sure you inspect the "certified" vehicle as carefully as you
would any used car. That 160-point check sounds good, but what is it
really? Don't let it lull you into thinking that the car is in
ship-shape. Mine wasn't.

I regret what happened to me. I wrote a story about it:
realcarstory.blogspot.com. At the end of the blog, after the story, I
give a detailed account of cost versus benefit and also have a letter
there to Toyota with my concerns about the car I bought. You might be
interested in those.

Good luck