Interesting. Maybe it IS worth it!

From: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_fuel[/url]


Economics of corn ethanol in the U.S.

While the energy balance of ethanol production is controversial
and estimates vary widely, the economics are more certain. Ethanol
production from corn costs $1.10 per US gallon (290 $/m²). [7] This
figure takes into account a government subsidy of $0.214 per US gallon (57
$/m²). Additionally, corn farmers receive subsidies equivalent to about
$0.61 per US gallon (161 $/m²) of ethanol. Finally, the government
subsidizes $0.54 per US gallon (143 $/m²) of ethanol sold as fuel.
Totaling these subsidies and including the $1.10 cost of production gives
$2.464 per US gallon (651 $/m²) of ethanol.

The national trade deficit (USA) has risen to an all time high of $686
billion. Most of this rise has been attributed to the record high prices
of crude oil ($67/barrel). [8] Domestic production of ethanol for fuel has
the potential to ease this deficit.

Hachiroku wrote:[color=blue]
> While the energy balance of ethanol production is controversial
> and estimates vary widely, the economics are more certain. Ethanol
> production from corn costs $1.10 per US gallon (290 $/m²).[/color]

How many BTU's in a gallon of corn ethanol compared to a gallon of 87
octane gasoline?

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 23:54:17 +0000, Travis Jordan wrote:
[color=blue]
> Hachiroku wrote:[color=green]
>> While the energy balance of ethanol production is controversial
>> and estimates vary widely, the economics are more certain. Ethanol
>> production from corn costs $1.10 per US gallon (290 $/m²).[/color]
>
> How many BTU's in a gallon of corn ethanol compared to a gallon of 87
> octane gasoline?[/color]


Here's the deal. According to the site, they have to cut ethanol with
gasoline to LOWER the octane, and E85 (85% Ethanol/15% gasoline) is 105
octane!

Hachiroku <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote:
[color=blue]
>On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 23:54:17 +0000, Travis Jordan wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Hachiroku wrote:[color=darkred]
>>> While the energy balance of ethanol production is controversial
>>> and estimates vary widely, the economics are more certain. Ethanol
>>> production from corn costs $1.10 per US gallon (290 $/m²).[/color]
>>
>> How many BTU's in a gallon of corn ethanol compared to a gallon of 87
>> octane gasoline?[/color]
>
>
>Here's the deal. According to the site, they have to cut ethanol with
>gasoline to LOWER the octane, and E85 (85% Ethanol/15% gasoline) is 105
>octane![/color]

Sure...the higher the octane rating the lower the volatility of
the fuel...remember how a high octane rating will prevent
detonation?...that's because octane reduces volatility, IOW it's
not as flammable. People get the idea that high octane fuel is
more 'powerful' than low octane fuel whereas the opposite is
true.

The reason for this mistake is that you use high octane in
engines which have high compression therefore producing higher
power.

You 'cannot' use low octane fuel (which has more power) because
it'll detonate and ruin your engine...

I'd still like to know the BTU comparison between ethanol and 87
octane gasoline...I feel that the better buy is gasoline. (gut
feeling)
--

-Gord.
(use gordon in email)

Gord Beaman wrote:[color=blue]
> I'd still like to know the BTU comparison between ethanol and 87
> octane gasoline...I feel that the better buy is gasoline. (gut
> feeling)[/color]

Since the OP didn't answer, I will:

•Btu content (LHV):
- Diesel fuel 128,450 per gallon
- Gasoline 116, 090 per gallon
- LPG 84,950 per gallon
- Natural gas 983 per cubic ft.
- Electricity 3,412 per kwh
- Coal 9,773 per pound
- Ethanol 76,330 per gallon

In article <Xk87f.175599$cw3.52702@fe01.news.easynews.com>,
"Travis Jordan" <no.one@no.net> wrote:
[color=blue]
> Gord Beaman wrote:[color=green]
> > I'd still like to know the BTU comparison between ethanol and 87
> > octane gasoline...I feel that the better buy is gasoline. (gut
> > feeling)[/color]
>
> Since the OP didn't answer, I will:
>
> •Btu content (LHV):
> - Diesel fuel 128,450 per gallon
> - Gasoline 116, 090 per gallon
> - LPG 84,950 per gallon
> - Natural gas 983 per cubic ft.
> - Electricity 3,412 per kwh
> - Coal 9,773 per pound
> - Ethanol 76,330 per gallon[/color]

In other words, a gallon of ethanol provides about 2/3 the energy of
gasoline. If retail gasoline costs $3 a gallon, retail ethanol would have
to cost only $1.97 a gallon to provide the equivalent amount of energy per
dollar.

At $60 a 42-gallon barrel, crude oil sells for $1.43 a gallon. To that
you have to add refinery costs. I am not sure how much those are, but I
believe wholesale gasoline is currently selling for about $1.80 a gallon
before taxes. That means ethanol would have to wholesale for about $1.20
per gallon to be competitive. At present, ethanol can only compete with
federal subsidy and a federal requirement that it be used.

Gasoline from crude oil generates revenue for the highway trust fund to
support the highway infrastructure. Ethanol takes a federal subsidy and
increases the deficit.

Merritt

"Travis Jordan" <no.one@no.net> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Gord Beaman wrote:[color=green]
>> I'd still like to know the BTU comparison between ethanol and 87
>> octane gasoline...I feel that the better buy is gasoline. (gut
>> feeling)[/color]
>
>Since the OP didn't answer, I will:
>
>•Btu content (LHV):
>- Diesel fuel 128,450 per gallon
>- Gasoline 116, 090 per gallon
>- LPG 84,950 per gallon
>- Natural gas 983 per cubic ft.
>- Electricity 3,412 per kwh
>- Coal 9,773 per pound
>- Ethanol 76,330 per gallon
>[/color]

Thanks Travis, appreciate it...
--

-Gord.
(use gordon in email)

Merritt Mullen <mmullen8014@mchsi.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>In article <Xk87f.175599$cw3.52702@fe01.news.easynews.com>,
> "Travis Jordan" <no.one@no.net> wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Gord Beaman wrote:[color=darkred]
>> > I'd still like to know the BTU comparison between ethanol and 87
>> > octane gasoline...I feel that the better buy is gasoline. (gut
>> > feeling)[/color]
>>
>> Since the OP didn't answer, I will:
>>
>> •Btu content (LHV):
>> - Diesel fuel 128,450 per gallon
>> - Gasoline 116, 090 per gallon
>> - LPG 84,950 per gallon
>> - Natural gas 983 per cubic ft.
>> - Electricity 3,412 per kwh
>> - Coal 9,773 per pound
>> - Ethanol 76,330 per gallon[/color]
>
>In other words, a gallon of ethanol provides about 2/3 the energy of
>gasoline. If retail gasoline costs $3 a gallon, retail ethanol would have
>to cost only $1.97 a gallon to provide the equivalent amount of energy per
>dollar.
>
>At $60 a 42-gallon barrel, crude oil sells for $1.43 a gallon. To that
>you have to add refinery costs. I am not sure how much those are, but I
>believe wholesale gasoline is currently selling for about $1.80 a gallon
>before taxes. That means ethanol would have to wholesale for about $1.20
>per gallon to be competitive. At present, ethanol can only compete with
>federal subsidy and a federal requirement that it be used.
>
>Gasoline from crude oil generates revenue for the highway trust fund to
>support the highway infrastructure. Ethanol takes a federal subsidy and
>increases the deficit.
>
>Merritt[/color]

Thanks Merritt
--

-Gord.
(use gordon in email)

No vehicle offered for sale today burns ethanol exclusively. Ethanol is
mixed with gasoline for the so called benefit of burning 'cleaner.' You are
correct the ONLY reason it is used is because the Senators in the farm
states pushed the legislation though Congress, not because it is cost
effect. The reason being ethanol is considered 'renewable' energy The sad
part is the oil companies could add alcohol to the gasoline far less
expensively by using the methanol available in the refining process. That
however is not renewable so the excess methanol is simply burned off at the
refinery. Your government at work.

mike hunt


"Merritt Mullen" <mmullen8014@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:mmullen8014-4B1C06.15352924102005@netnews.asp.att.net...[color=blue]
> In article <Xk87f.175599$cw3.52702@fe01.news.easynews.com>,
> "Travis Jordan" <no.one@no.net> wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Gord Beaman wrote:[color=darkred]
>> > I'd still like to know the BTU comparison between ethanol and 87
>> > octane gasoline...I feel that the better buy is gasoline. (gut
>> > feeling)[/color]
>>
>> Since the OP didn't answer, I will:
>>
>> .Btu content (LHV):
>> - Diesel fuel 128,450 per gallon
>> - Gasoline 116, 090 per gallon
>> - LPG 84,950 per gallon
>> - Natural gas 983 per cubic ft.
>> - Electricity 3,412 per kwh
>> - Coal 9,773 per pound
>> - Ethanol 76,330 per gallon[/color]
>
> In other words, a gallon of ethanol provides about 2/3 the energy of
> gasoline. If retail gasoline costs $3 a gallon, retail ethanol would have
> to cost only $1.97 a gallon to provide the equivalent amount of energy per
> dollar.
>
> At $60 a 42-gallon barrel, crude oil sells for $1.43 a gallon. To that
> you have to add refinery costs. I am not sure how much those are, but I
> believe wholesale gasoline is currently selling for about $1.80 a gallon
> before taxes. That means ethanol would have to wholesale for about $1.20
> per gallon to be competitive. At present, ethanol can only compete with
> federal subsidy and a federal requirement that it be used.
>
> Gasoline from crude oil generates revenue for the highway trust fund to
> support the highway infrastructure. Ethanol takes a federal subsidy and
> increases the deficit.
>
> Merritt[/color]