No Sludge!

Well I finally had to do it. At 209,000 miles, the original sealant on the
pan was starting to weep . . . .

So we took off the pan to replace the sealant, and guess what, Phillip? No
sludge. None at all. I had them even make a note in the records.

So, Mr High-and-Mighty, you were WRONG. Now serving crow for Mr. Phillip. .
.. .

Charles of Kankakee

"Charles @ Kankakee" <n5hsr@comcast.net> wrote in
news:75KdnVZmbdfTF-neRVn-hQ@comcast.com:
[color=blue]
> Well I finally had to do it. At 209,000 miles, the original sealant
> on the pan was starting to weep . . . .
>
> So we took off the pan to replace the sealant, and guess what,
> Phillip? No sludge. None at all. I had them even make a note in the
> records.
>
> So, Mr High-and-Mighty, you were WRONG. Now serving crow for Mr.
> Phillip. . . .
>[/color]


What? I must have come in late. What's the background here? What did Philip
say?

--
TeGGeR®

"Charles @ Kankakee" <n5hsr@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:75KdnVZmbdfTF-neRVn-hQ@comcast.com...[color=blue]
> Well I finally had to do it. At 209,000 miles, the original sealant on
> the pan was starting to weep . . . .
>
> So we took off the pan to replace the sealant, and guess what, Phillip?
> No sludge. None at all. I had them even make a note in the records.
>
> So, Mr High-and-Mighty, you were WRONG. Now serving crow for Mr. Phillip.
> . . .
>
> Charles of Kankakee
>[/color]

What is this regarding?

I always believed Philip to be a sludge skeptic, believing that regular
maintenance would lead to very little accumulation.

I always believed Philip to be a sludge skeptic, believing that regular
maintenance would lead to very little accumulation.

What model and year of yota (not all exhibit the problem which apparently
was due to design issue)? I suspect short trips are more a contibuting
cause to the sludge problem too.

"Charles @ Kankakee" <n5hsr@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:75KdnVZmbdfTF-neRVn-hQ@comcast.com...[color=blue]
> Well I finally had to do it. At 209,000 miles, the original sealant on
> the pan was starting to weep . . . .
>
> So we took off the pan to replace the sealant, and guess what, Phillip?
> No sludge. None at all. I had them even make a note in the records.
>
> So, Mr High-and-Mighty, you were WRONG. Now serving crow for Mr. Phillip.
> . . .
>
> Charles of Kankakee
>[/color]

"Charles @ Kankakee" <n5hsr@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:75KdnVZmbdfTF-neRVn-hQ@comcast.com...[color=blue]
> Well I finally had to do it. At 209,000 miles, the original sealant on
> the pan was starting to weep . . . .
>
> So we took off the pan to replace the sealant, and guess what, Phillip?
> No sludge. None at all. I had them even make a note in the records.[/color]

What's so special about that? I've never really had any sort of sludge
problem in any engine I've owned. Heck I took the pan off a 50 year old farm
tractor which had been supjected to crappy old non-detergent motor oil for
half of its life, and it didn't have any sludge. The only real sludge
problem I've ever seen was a friend's Oldsmobile. He used Quaker State 10W40
and changed it at the GM recommended intervals. He had to scrap the crap out
of the lifter valley with a spoon.

Ed

"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
news:Xns970B4F605323Ctegger@207.14.113.17...[color=blue]
> "Charles @ Kankakee" <n5hsr@comcast.net> wrote in
> news:75KdnVZmbdfTF-neRVn-hQ@comcast.com:
>[color=green]
>> Well I finally had to do it. At 209,000 miles, the original sealant
>> on the pan was starting to weep . . . .
>>
>> So we took off the pan to replace the sealant, and guess what,
>> Phillip? No sludge. None at all. I had them even make a note in the
>> records.
>>
>> So, Mr High-and-Mighty, you were WRONG. Now serving crow for Mr.
>> Phillip. . . .
>>[/color]
>
>
> What? I must have come in late. What's the background here? What did
> Philip
> say?
>
> --
> TeGGeR®
>[/color]

Some months ago, I asked what could be wrong with the Corolla as it had
started eating about a quart between changes. No signs of dripping or
leaking and no real signs of burning, either. He accused me of not
maintaining the car and that I had a sludge buildup. . . .

1. I have receipts for oil changes every 3000. Not cheap oil, either.
Valvoline Max-Life 10W30.

2. Now that we found that the pan gasket was seeping, that explains the
loss of oil and the lack of dripping. If it was seeping, the airflow past
the engine while it was running blew it away. I almost never idle the thing
while it's sitting for more than 30 seconds, unless I'm at a traffic light.
But I do drive it pretty hard . . . .

3. No sludge was found when they had to drop the pan gasket. Not even
varnish.

Next thing to go will probably be the seals in block. I'm not used to
front-drive engines. If it was a rear-drive setup, I'd expect the rear main
to go out next.

Charles of Kankakee

"Wolfgang" <NOwolfgangdieterSPAM@cox.net> wrote in message
news:QL2df.234$0h5.200@dukeread10...[color=blue]
> What model and year of yota (not all exhibit the problem which apparently
> was due to design issue)? I suspect short trips are more a contibuting
> cause to the sludge problem too.
>
> "Charles @ Kankakee" <n5hsr@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:75KdnVZmbdfTF-neRVn-hQ@comcast.com...[color=green]
>> Well I finally had to do it. At 209,000 miles, the original sealant on
>> the pan was starting to weep . . . .
>>
>> So we took off the pan to replace the sealant, and guess what, Phillip?
>> No sludge. None at all. I had them even make a note in the records.
>>
>> So, Mr High-and-Mighty, you were WRONG. Now serving crow for Mr.
>> Phillip. . . .
>>
>> Charles of Kankakee
>>[/color]
>
>[/color]

This thing doesn't get hardly any short trips. I drive it about 90 miles
one way each day except Saturday. That's how it's got 209,400 on it right
now. It gets a short trip at 5 in the morning on Sat, Tues, and Thurs, and
a short trip at 7:30 in the morning on Mon, Wed and Fri. But then on
Monday, Wed, Friday and Sunday nights, and Tuesday and Thursday morning, it
gets a 90 mile drive.

Charles of Kankakee

"C. E. White" <cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:R43df.7863$AS6.584@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...[color=blue]
>
> "Charles @ Kankakee" <n5hsr@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:75KdnVZmbdfTF-neRVn-hQ@comcast.com...[color=green]
>> Well I finally had to do it. At 209,000 miles, the original sealant on
>> the pan was starting to weep . . . .
>>
>> So we took off the pan to replace the sealant, and guess what, Phillip?
>> No sludge. None at all. I had them even make a note in the records.[/color]
>
> What's so special about that? I've never really had any sort of sludge
> problem in any engine I've owned. Heck I took the pan off a 50 year old
> farm tractor which had been supjected to crappy old non-detergent motor
> oil for half of its life, and it didn't have any sludge. The only real
> sludge problem I've ever seen was a friend's Oldsmobile. He used Quaker
> State 10W40 and changed it at the GM recommended intervals. He had to
> scrap the crap out of the lifter valley with a spoon.
>
> Ed
>[/color]

I had asked for possible causes of oil loss. She had started using about a
quart between changes.

Phillip had practically accused me of:

1. Not maintaining it. I have receipts for oil changes every 3000 miles.

2. Using cheap oil. I use MaxLife 10W30. If I thought I could use their
DuraBlend, I'd use that. I did until 125,000 miles, anyway.

I have to rely on this car. I can't afford to do the cheap oil trick.
And we seem to have found the loss. As fast as I drive, it's blowing past
the pan when I'm driving. A new seal should fix that. Now I have to worry
about the mains going. Don't know if I have to worry about the front main.
Lost a rear main before, but that was on a front-engine rear-drive setup
that had been run summer and winter and 36,000 miles per year on Kendall
20-20W by the Previous Owner, or PO as it;s known as in some circles.

I wouldn't use QS in a lawn mower from what I hear about it. QS is the
primary reason my Dad wouldn't use multiweight oils until I talked him into
it with his 77 Corolla. He was probably glad I did. We got 207,000 out of
it, but we didn't use QS in it, either. . . .

Apparently QS has a high paraffin content, or did in the old days, that's
what they apparently used to use to make oil 'multi-weight', but it must
have been terrible on engines. Mom used to keep paraffin in the kitchen
for topping jelly jars. . . .

Charles of Kankakee

Charles of Kankakee

"Charles @ Kankakee" <n5hsr@comcast.net> wrote in
news:6_GdnStgf7RSD-jeRVn-hg@comcast.com:
[color=blue]
>
> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
> news:Xns970B4F605323Ctegger@207.14.113.17...[/color]

<snip>

[color=blue][color=green]
>> What? I must have come in late. What's the background here? What did
>> Philip
>> say?
>>
>>[/color]
>
> Some months ago, I asked what could be wrong with the Corolla as it
> had started eating about a quart between changes. No signs of
> dripping or leaking and no real signs of burning, either. He accused
> me of not maintaining the car and that I had a sludge buildup. . . .[/color]



Ahhhh...


[color=blue]
>
> 1. I have receipts for oil changes every 3000. Not cheap oil,
> either. Valvoline Max-Life 10W30.[/color]



The stuff that's supposed to "rejuvenate" worn seals.

[color=blue]
>
> 2. Now that we found that the pan gasket was seeping, that explains
> the loss of oil and the lack of dripping. If it was seeping, the
> airflow past the engine while it was running blew it away. I almost
> never idle the thing while it's sitting for more than 30 seconds,
> unless I'm at a traffic light. But I do drive it pretty hard . . . .[/color]



My thinking leads me to suspect such a thing would end up coating the rear
of the block with oil, as the air whips up and eddies behind the engine.
Was there any oil blown around like that?


[color=blue]
>
> 3. No sludge was found when they had to drop the pan gasket. Not even
> varnish.
>
> Next thing to go will probably be the seals in block. I'm not used to
> front-drive engines. If it was a rear-drive setup, I'd expect the
> rear main to go out next.[/color]


Seems to me that any of the seals could wear to the point of seepage at any
time. Unless your engine model has a quirk all its own, as some do
(example: Corolla T50 manual trannies used to eat their rear bearing
regularly).


--
TeGGeR®

"Charles @ Kankakee" <n5hsr@comcast.net> wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
>news:Xns970B4F605323Ctegger@207.14.113.17...[color=green]
>> "Charles @ Kankakee" <n5hsr@comcast.net> wrote in
>> news:75KdnVZmbdfTF-neRVn-hQ@comcast.com:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> Well I finally had to do it. At 209,000 miles, the original sealant
>>> on the pan was starting to weep . . . .
>>>
>>> So we took off the pan to replace the sealant, and guess what,
>>> Phillip? No sludge. None at all. I had them even make a note in the
>>> records.
>>>
>>> So, Mr High-and-Mighty, you were WRONG. Now serving crow for Mr.
>>> Phillip. . . .
>>>[/color]
>>
>>
>> What? I must have come in late. What's the background here? What did
>> Philip
>> say?
>>
>> --
>> TeGGeR®
>>[/color]
>
>Some months ago, I asked what could be wrong with the Corolla as it had
>started eating about a quart between changes. No signs of dripping or
>leaking and no real signs of burning, either. He accused me of not
>maintaining the car and that I had a sludge buildup. . . .
>
>1. I have receipts for oil changes every 3000. Not cheap oil, either.
>Valvoline Max-Life 10W30.
>
>2. Now that we found that the pan gasket was seeping, that explains the
>loss of oil and the lack of dripping. If it was seeping, the airflow past
>the engine while it was running blew it away. I almost never idle the thing
>while it's sitting for more than 30 seconds, unless I'm at a traffic light.
>But I do drive it pretty hard . . . .
>
>3. No sludge was found when they had to drop the pan gasket. Not even
>varnish.
>
>Next thing to go will probably be the seals in block. I'm not used to
>front-drive engines. If it was a rear-drive setup, I'd expect the rear main
>to go out next.
>
>Charles of Kankakee
>[/color]
Yes Charles, I remember that accusation clearly...I see Philip is
rather quiet just now...mind you, it's possible that he's away or
something too...he's a pretty knowledgeable guy, but he's an
abrasive bastard too...
--

-Gord.
(use gordon in email)

"Charles @ Kankakee" <n5hsr@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:xpCdncyghvPuC-jenZ2dnUVZ_vudnZ2d@comcast.com...[color=blue]
>
> "C. E. White" <cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:R43df.7863$AS6.584@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...[color=green]
>>
>> "Charles @ Kankakee" <n5hsr@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:75KdnVZmbdfTF-neRVn-hQ@comcast.com...[color=darkred]
>>> Well I finally had to do it. At 209,000 miles, the original sealant on
>>> the pan was starting to weep . . . .
>>>
>>> So we took off the pan to replace the sealant, and guess what, Phillip?
>>> No sludge. None at all. I had them even make a note in the records.[/color]
>>
>> What's so special about that? I've never really had any sort of sludge
>> problem in any engine I've owned. Heck I took the pan off a 50 year old
>> farm tractor which had been supjected to crappy old non-detergent motor
>> oil for half of its life, and it didn't have any sludge. The only real
>> sludge problem I've ever seen was a friend's Oldsmobile. He used Quaker
>> State 10W40 and changed it at the GM recommended intervals. He had to
>> scrap the crap out of the lifter valley with a spoon.
>>
>> Ed
>>[/color]
>
> I had asked for possible causes of oil loss. She had started using about
> a quart between changes.
>[/color]

If it was losing a quart every 3000 miles through a sump leak, I would
expect a liberal coating of oil on the underside of the car and even across
the rear vertical part of the car body.
Are you absolutely sure that the consumption has ceased or even reduced
significantly?

Huw

"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
news:Xns970C58FDE4F00tegger@207.14.113.17...[color=blue]
> "Charles @ Kankakee" <n5hsr@comcast.net> wrote in
> news:6_GdnStgf7RSD-jeRVn-hg@comcast.com:
>[color=green]
>>
>> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
>> news:Xns970B4F605323Ctegger@207.14.113.17...[/color]
>
> <snip>
>
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> What? I must have come in late. What's the background here? What did
>>> Philip
>>> say?
>>>
>>>[/color]
>>
>> Some months ago, I asked what could be wrong with the Corolla as it
>> had started eating about a quart between changes. No signs of
>> dripping or leaking and no real signs of burning, either. He accused
>> me of not maintaining the car and that I had a sludge buildup. . . .[/color]
>
>
>
> Ahhhh...
>
>
>[color=green]
>>
>> 1. I have receipts for oil changes every 3000. Not cheap oil,
>> either. Valvoline Max-Life 10W30.[/color]
>
>
>
> The stuff that's supposed to "rejuvenate" worn seals.
>
>[color=green]
>>
>> 2. Now that we found that the pan gasket was seeping, that explains
>> the loss of oil and the lack of dripping. If it was seeping, the
>> airflow past the engine while it was running blew it away. I almost
>> never idle the thing while it's sitting for more than 30 seconds,
>> unless I'm at a traffic light. But I do drive it pretty hard . . . .[/color]
>
>
>
> My thinking leads me to suspect such a thing would end up coating the rear
> of the block with oil, as the air whips up and eddies behind the engine.
> Was there any oil blown around like that?
>
>
>[color=green]
>>
>> 3. No sludge was found when they had to drop the pan gasket. Not even
>> varnish.
>>
>> Next thing to go will probably be the seals in block. I'm not used to
>> front-drive engines. If it was a rear-drive setup, I'd expect the
>> rear main to go out next.[/color]
>
>
> Seems to me that any of the seals could wear to the point of seepage at
> any
> time. Unless your engine model has a quirk all its own, as some do
> (example: Corolla T50 manual trannies used to eat their rear bearing
> regularly).
>
>
> --
> TeGGeR®
>[/color]

I had a K-40 tranny that blew out 4th gear. Turns out it needed a 50 cent
part, but the rebuild job would have come to $250 and I had nowhere to take
it apart and do the work myself.

Charles of Kankakee

"Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3tmui8FtkoeuU1@individual.net...[color=blue]
>
> "Charles @ Kankakee" <n5hsr@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:xpCdncyghvPuC-jenZ2dnUVZ_vudnZ2d@comcast.com...[color=green]
>>
>> "C. E. White" <cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>> news:R43df.7863$AS6.584@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...[color=darkred]
>>>
>>> "Charles @ Kankakee" <n5hsr@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>> news:75KdnVZmbdfTF-neRVn-hQ@comcast.com...
>>>> Well I finally had to do it. At 209,000 miles, the original sealant on
>>>> the pan was starting to weep . . . .
>>>>
>>>> So we took off the pan to replace the sealant, and guess what, Phillip?
>>>> No sludge. None at all. I had them even make a note in the records.
>>>
>>> What's so special about that? I've never really had any sort of sludge
>>> problem in any engine I've owned. Heck I took the pan off a 50 year old
>>> farm tractor which had been supjected to crappy old non-detergent motor
>>> oil for half of its life, and it didn't have any sludge. The only real
>>> sludge problem I've ever seen was a friend's Oldsmobile. He used Quaker
>>> State 10W40 and changed it at the GM recommended intervals. He had to
>>> scrap the crap out of the lifter valley with a spoon.
>>>
>>> Ed
>>>[/color]
>>
>> I had asked for possible causes of oil loss. She had started using about
>> a quart between changes.
>>[/color]
>
> If it was losing a quart every 3000 miles through a sump leak, I would
> expect a liberal coating of oil on the underside of the car and even
> across the rear vertical part of the car body.
> Are you absolutely sure that the consumption has ceased or even reduced
> significantly?
>
> Huw
>[/color]

The seal's only been replaced for 2 days. I'm not even sure if it has
completely 'cured' and seated yet. And I got a good look at the underside
before replacement, and there wasn't a signifcant oil on anything but the
edges of the pan. I also just replaced the valve cover gasket the oil
change before. It's got 209,500 miles on it, so I'm expecting a few things
to need replacement now and again. But it is not showing signs of burning
it, either.

Charles of Kankakee