sludge photo site?

I know everyone is probably sick and tired of the infamous toyota sludge
discussion, but hey, I just looked under the oil filler cap on my
avalon (02), and it's crusty black (not gel-like at all). I get the oil
changed between 3,000 and 4,000 miles with Durablend (the middle grade)
down at the local Valvoline oilchange place. Since I don't change it,
I'd never looked under the oil change cap. Can't really see much - it
seems to be a deflector shield right under the cap so you can't see any
workings - except that crusty black coating right where you would pour
the oil. This is the 3.0 V6, 2002 Avalon XLS. It sure doesn't seem like
this would be described as "sludge", but one never knows. I have about
50,000 miles on it. The oil on the dip-stick is (as always) a nice
honey-colored amber, and ther's no smoke, and it's never used a drop of
oil (I know I said I don't change it, but I DO check it).

So,
1) I'd like to see a site of photos of what I would be looking at if it
IS sludge, and
2) does anyone have the range of VIN numbers that Toyota covers for this
car?

(I still love the car, even if it IS sludge <grin>)

Steve Henderson

try [url]www.auto-rx.com[/url]

cleaned up my sludge

"Steve Henderson" <shenderson_2@charter.net> wrote in message
news:ehcef.24314$7s1.6528@fe04.lga...[color=blue]
> I know everyone is probably sick and tired of the infamous toyota sludge
> discussion, but hey, I just looked under the oil filler cap on my
> avalon (02), and it's crusty black (not gel-like at all). I get the oil
> changed between 3,000 and 4,000 miles with Durablend (the middle grade)
> down at the local Valvoline oilchange place. Since I don't change it,
> I'd never looked under the oil change cap. Can't really see much - it
> seems to be a deflector shield right under the cap so you can't see any
> workings - except that crusty black coating right where you would pour
> the oil. This is the 3.0 V6, 2002 Avalon XLS. It sure doesn't seem like
> this would be described as "sludge", but one never knows. I have about
> 50,000 miles on it. The oil on the dip-stick is (as always) a nice
> honey-colored amber, and ther's no smoke, and it's never used a drop of
> oil (I know I said I don't change it, but I DO check it).
>
> So,
> 1) I'd like to see a site of photos of what I would be looking at if it
> IS sludge, and
> 2) does anyone have the range of VIN numbers that Toyota covers for this
> car?
>
> (I still love the car, even if it IS sludge <grin>)
>
> Steve Henderson[/color]

Check out [url]http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludge/cleaning_sludge.html[/url]

Tegger posted a series of a sludge job that I did on a Camry. You can get
a good idea of what this crap looks like here.

"qslim" <Suckers@suckersdotcom> wrote in
news:e00c899d6aacd987d2dfeb483995c49f@localhost.talkaboutautos.com:
[color=blue]
> Check out [url]http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludge/cleaning_sludge.html[/url]
>
> Tegger posted a series of a sludge job that I did on a Camry. You can get
> a good idea of what this crap looks like here.
>
>[/color]


And if you click the "back to top" text on that page, you'll be taken to:
[url]http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludge/index.html[/url]
which has even more pictures of sludge.

--
TeGGeR®

Call you local Toyota dealer, give them the VIN#, and build date, and they
will tell you if your vehicle is covered for 'gelling' under the extended
warranty.

mike hunt

"Steve Henderson"
[color=blue]
> 2) does anyone have the range of VIN numbers that Toyota covers for this
> car?
>
> (I still love the car, even if it IS sludge <grin>)
>
> Steve Henderson[/color]

Mike Hunter wrote:[color=blue]
> Call you local Toyota dealer, give them the VIN#, and build date, and they
> will tell you if your vehicle is covered for 'gelling' under the extended
> warranty.
>
> mike hunt
>
> "Steve Henderson"
>
>[color=green]
>>2) does anyone have the range of VIN numbers that Toyota covers for this
>>car?
>>
>>(I still love the car, even if it IS sludge <grin>)
>>
>>Steve Henderson[/color]
>
>
>[/color]
Ok - I appreciate all the replies. However, my engine does not look
gooey like all these pics... I really can't see any internal parts, just
the little aluminum "shield" that's RIGHT under the oil cap, and about 1
inch down. Could someone else look at their "V6 3000 Four Cam 24 VVT-i
engine" and take the oil filler cap off and look inside? Mine's pure
black. But NOT gooey at all... and like I said before the oil is clean
and looks like pure honey.

Thanks!

"Steve Henderson" <shenderson_2@charter.net> wrote in message
news:Axoef.73794$RG4.44525@fe05.lga...[color=blue]
> Mike Hunter wrote:[color=green]
>> Call you local Toyota dealer, give them the VIN#, and build date, and
>> they will tell you if your vehicle is covered for 'gelling' under the
>> extended warranty.
>>
>> mike hunt
>>
>> "Steve Henderson"
>>
>>[color=darkred]
>>>2) does anyone have the range of VIN numbers that Toyota covers for this
>>>car?
>>>
>>>(I still love the car, even if it IS sludge <grin>)
>>>
>>>Steve Henderson[/color]
>>
>>
>>[/color]
> Ok - I appreciate all the replies. However, my engine does not look gooey
> like all these pics... I really can't see any internal parts, just the
> little aluminum "shield" that's RIGHT under the oil cap, and about 1 inch
> down. Could someone else look at their "V6 3000 Four Cam 24 VVT-i engine"
> and take the oil filler cap off and look inside? Mine's pure black. But
> NOT gooey at all... and like I said before the oil is clean and looks like
> pure honey.
>
> Thanks![/color]

Took a look at my 03 Avalon, looks the same as you describe if that is any
consolation and I don't think I have sludge.

In article <ehcef.24314$7s1.6528@fe04.lga>,
Steve Henderson <shenderson_2@charter.net> wrote:
[color=blue]
> I know everyone is probably sick and tired of the infamous toyota sludge
> discussion, but hey, I just looked under the oil filler cap on my
> avalon (02), and it's crusty black (not gel-like at all). I get the oil
> changed between 3,000 and 4,000 miles with Durablend (the middle grade)
> down at the local Valvoline oilchange place. Since I don't change it,
> I'd never looked under the oil change cap. Can't really see much - it
> seems to be a deflector shield right under the cap so you can't see any
> workings - except that crusty black coating right where you would pour
> the oil. This is the 3.0 V6, 2002 Avalon XLS. It sure doesn't seem like
> this would be described as "sludge", but one never knows. I have about
> 50,000 miles on it. The oil on the dip-stick is (as always) a nice
> honey-colored amber, and ther's no smoke, and it's never used a drop of
> oil (I know I said I don't change it, but I DO check it).
>
> So,
> 1) I'd like to see a site of photos of what I would be looking at if it
> IS sludge, and
> 2) does anyone have the range of VIN numbers that Toyota covers for this
> car?
>
> (I still love the car, even if it IS sludge <grin>)
>
> Steve Henderson[/color]

From having gone though this on my recently acquired 2000 Avalon, I think
I can explain a little. "Sludge" is a black mud-like substance that you
can scoop out with your finger (if you take the valve cover off). The
Toyota special warranty is for what they call "gel", which is more of a
hardened gelatin-like substance that clogs oil passages. My engine was
ruled by Toyota to be "sludged" but not "gelled," so therefore not
eligible for the special free engine exchange (or rebuild). But it was
deemed bad enough that the engine needed rebuild or replacement, at a cost
of about $5,000. Fortunately, I had an extended care warranty that paid
for engine (factory rebuilt short block, new valve covers). The work was
just done and it seems to have fixed my oil consumption and smoke problem,
but I need to take it on a long highway trip to be sure. I will be doing
that over Thanksgiving. When I get back, I will send a full report to
this group.

Merritt

I had the oil changed this am on my 02 Highlander, just under 50k
total miles. The same shield is in it also in same appearance. The
oil in it is changed at dealer 3000/3months under "lifetime" change.

This is similar to what I've seen in other engines that had sheet
metal "out of the flow". This is in my " non-mechanic" mind a normal
condition.

Steve Henderson <shenderson_2@charter.net> wrote in
news:Axoef.73794$RG4.44525@fe05.lga:

[color=blue][color=green]
>>
>>[/color]
> Ok - I appreciate all the replies. However, my engine does not look
> gooey like all these pics... I really can't see any internal parts,
> just the little aluminum "shield" that's RIGHT under the oil cap, and
> about 1 inch down. Could someone else look at their "V6 3000 Four Cam
> 24 VVT-i engine" and take the oil filler cap off and look inside?
> Mine's pure black. But NOT gooey at all... and like I said before the
> oil is clean and looks like pure honey.
>[/color]


I think you may be mistaking varnish for sludge. A slight buildup of that
is no problem as long as you're changing your oil every 3K.


--
TeGGeR®

The easiest way to check for sludge is to pop out the cam position sensor
and peek in there with a small mirror. If you want to give it a shot, I'll
give you directions.

ron wrote:[color=blue]
> I had the oil changed this am on my 02 Highlander, just under 50k total
> miles. The same shield is in it also in same appearance. The oil in it
> is changed at dealer 3000/3months under "lifetime" change.
>
> This is similar to what I've seen in other engines that had sheet metal
> "out of the flow". This is in my " non-mechanic" mind a normal condition.[/color]

Thanks to everyone - especially those who took a peek under their oil
caps and saw the same thing I see. I, too, think it's probably just
because the little shield is "out of the flow". I refuse to worry any
more about it because of that, and because...

1)I know I get the oil and filter changed more often than Toyota suggests.
2)The car doesn't use a drop of oil between changes
3)There's no smoke, no performance problems
4)The oil is beautiful honey color even as I taking it in for it's
regular change.

Now, if I could just get those tree roots to stop cracking up my
driveway and garage floor - my skylight in the living room to stop
seeping at the corner in a rain storm - my hot water heater to stop
dripping from the pressure relief valve, that bare spot in my yard to
fill in...etc. etc.

That's why I own Toyotas - so I can devote my worry time to stuff that
matters... <grin>

Steve

"TWW" <twaugh5@cox.net> wrote in message
news:GwQef.31076$2k5.4022@dukeread09...[color=blue]
>
> "Steve Henderson" <shenderson_2@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:ehcef.24314$7s1.6528@fe04.lga...[color=green]
>> I know everyone is probably sick and tired of the infamous toyota sludge
>> discussion, but hey, I just looked under the oil filler cap on my
>> avalon (02), and it's crusty black (not gel-like at all). I get the oil
>> changed between 3,000 and 4,000 miles with Durablend (the middle grade)
>> down at the local Valvoline oilchange place. Since I don't change it,
>> I'd never looked under the oil change cap. Can't really see much - it
>> seems to be a deflector shield right under the cap so you can't see any
>> workings - except that crusty black coating right where you would pour
>> the oil. This is the 3.0 V6, 2002 Avalon XLS. It sure doesn't seem like
>> this would be described as "sludge", but one never knows. I have about
>> 50,000 miles on it. The oil on the dip-stick is (as always) a nice
>> honey-colored amber, and ther's no smoke, and it's never used a drop of
>> oil (I know I said I don't change it, but I DO check it).
>>
>> So,
>> 1) I'd like to see a site of photos of what I would be looking at if it
>> IS sludge, and
>> 2) does anyone have the range of VIN numbers that Toyota covers for this
>> car?
>>
>> (I still love the car, even if it IS sludge <grin>)
>>
>> Steve Henderson[/color]
>
> We had a RX 300 (01) which showed some sludging at 30k miles despite
> services by dealer at the recommended 5k intervals. Dealer said is was
> still OK. We traded the car on a Pilot.
>[/color]
I switch to Mobil 1 5W-30 Extended for my 98 RAV4. The gel is now gone after
a few changes. When I opened the fill cap I saw drops of condensed water
inside. Likely the head stays too cool to drive off the water unless driven
long and hard. I'll keep a close eye on it.

Richard.

I have a low mileage 2001. My dipstick is always looking like relatively
clean oil and it makes me feel that there is something in the design of the
engine that prevents the oil from doing its job and suspending oil
impurities. Just my opinion. Oil is SUPPOSED to get dirty.


"Steve Henderson" <shenderson_2@charter.net> wrote in message
news:ehcef.24314$7s1.6528@fe04.lga...[color=blue]
>I know everyone is probably sick and tired of the infamous toyota sludge
>discussion, but hey, I just looked under the oil filler cap on my avalon
>(02), and it's crusty black (not gel-like at all). I get the oil changed
>between 3,000 and 4,000 miles with Durablend (the middle grade) down at the
>local Valvoline oilchange place. Since I don't change it, I'd never looked
>under the oil change cap. Can't really see much - it seems to be a
>deflector shield right under the cap so you can't see any workings - except
>that crusty black coating right where you would pour the oil. This is the
>3.0 V6, 2002 Avalon XLS. It sure doesn't seem like this would be described
>as "sludge", but one never knows. I have about 50,000 miles on it. The oil
>on the dip-stick is (as always) a nice honey-colored amber, and ther's no
>smoke, and it's never used a drop of oil (I know I said I don't change it,
>but I DO check it).
>
> So,
> 1) I'd like to see a site of photos of what I would be looking at if it IS
> sludge, and
> 2) does anyone have the range of VIN numbers that Toyota covers for this
> car?
>
> (I still love the car, even if it IS sludge <grin>)
>
> Steve Henderson[/color]

"Art" <begunaNOSPAMPLEASE@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:V2Kff.10448$2y.4823@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...[color=blue]
>I have a low mileage 2001. My dipstick is always looking like relatively
>clean oil and it makes me feel that there is something in the design of the
>engine that prevents the oil from doing its job and suspending oil
>impurities. Just my opinion. Oil is SUPPOSED to get dirty.
>[/color]

The oil is not supposed to get dirty. If it was supposed to get dirty, why
would manufacturers install oil filters? The oil filter's job is to filter
particulates in the oil. Oil does naturally get dirty from stuff that is
too fine for the filter to trap. Don't worry about clean oil.

--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply

[color=blue]
>
> "Steve Henderson" <shenderson_2@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:ehcef.24314$7s1.6528@fe04.lga...[color=green]
>>I know everyone is probably sick and tired of the infamous toyota sludge
>>discussion, but hey, I just looked under the oil filler cap on my avalon
>>(02), and it's crusty black (not gel-like at all). I get the oil changed
>>between 3,000 and 4,000 miles with Durablend (the middle grade) down at
>>the local Valvoline oilchange place. Since I don't change it, I'd never
>>looked under the oil change cap. Can't really see much - it seems to be a
>>deflector shield right under the cap so you can't see any workings -
>>except that crusty black coating right where you would pour the oil. This
>>is the 3.0 V6, 2002 Avalon XLS. It sure doesn't seem like this would be
>>described as "sludge", but one never knows. I have about 50,000 miles on
>>it. The oil on the dip-stick is (as always) a nice honey-colored amber,
>>and ther's no smoke, and it's never used a drop of oil (I know I said I
>>don't change it, but I DO check it).
>>
>> So,
>> 1) I'd like to see a site of photos of what I would be looking at if it
>> IS sludge, and
>> 2) does anyone have the range of VIN numbers that Toyota covers for this
>> car?
>>
>> (I still love the car, even if it IS sludge <grin>)
>>
>> Steve Henderson[/color]
>
>[/color]