Re: Ford vs. Toyota safety

"Dan J.S." <me@hyperx.com> wrote in message
news:11nuhn593hu0p1c@news.supernews.com...[color=blue]
> [url]http://www.autosafety.org/casresults.php?find=toyota&x=0&y=0[/url][/color]

You need to consider the source of this information. Autosafety.org is run
by trial lawyer for the benefit of trial lawyers.
[color=blue]
> Do a search for "Ford" = 278 results[/color]
Meaningless numer unless you you examin each one for significance. Is a
recall to inspect a seat back latch on 500 cars as significant as a recall
to inspect 700,000 vehicles with potentiall bad balljoits?

[color=blue]
> Do a search for "Toyota" = 73 results[/color]

See below
[color=blue]
> Quote:
>
> At least 20 law enforcement officers have been killed in fiery collisions
> involving Ford's Crown Victoria Police Interceptor, due to an inadequate
> fuel system. The civilian platform of these vehicles includes the Ford
> Crown Victoria, Mercury Grand Marquis, and Lincoln Town Car, all with the
> same faulty fuel system. Ford has fixed the police vehicles, but refuses
> to recall the civilian cars.[/color]

For Crown Victorias go read -
[url]http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/10/03/national/main524280.shtml[/url]

"The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said the car exceeds
federal standards for fuel system safety and the rate of fires was no
greater than with Chevrolet Caprice police cars.....

"NHTSA said it is aware of only four fire-related rear crashes resulting in
four deaths in more than 2.6 million civilian Crown Victoria cars."

A Ford Crown Victoria has a much better injury loss rating than a Toyota
Avalon or Camry. So, if you are worried about safety, you should be driving
the Crown Victoria (see [url]http://www.iihs.org/brochures/ictl/ictl_4dr.html)[/url].
[color=blue]
> With 12 safety recalls to date and 7 defect investigations, the Ford Focus
> proved to be an embarrassment to Ford Motor Company and its President[/color]

This is exactly the sort of crap that drives me crazy. No single Focus model
has been recalled 12 or 13 times. All the various Focus models from the last
5 years have been recalled 13 times combined. However, not all Focus
models/years have been recalled. "Focus" is not a single car line. It is
made up of 4 related but distinct models. Some models from some years have
been recalled, most have not.

Here is a brief history of Foci recalls:

2000 Focus

00S20S1 OCT 00 Recall - `A' Pillar Trim Replacement - 351,000 vehicles -
changes shape of a trim piece
01S24 AUG 01 Recall - Defective Wiper Motor Switch/Gear Cover - not Focus
specific
00S55 JAN 01 Recall - Rear Seat Back Hinge Replacement - 95,000 vehicles
Focus ZX Wagon Only
00S50 DEC 00 Recall - Decklid Wire Harness Replacement - 74,500 vehicles,
wagons / hatchbacks not affected
00S31 OCT 00 Recall - Wheel Bearing Inspection/Retainer Installation -
203,700 vehicles, inspection of wheel bearing retaining nut to verify proper
installation.
99S35 DEC 99 Recall - Speed Control Cable & Servo Replacement - 534
vehicles, SVT models only.
05S27S1 APR 05 Recall - Rear Door Latch Inspection/Door Seal Install (4
Door Models only)
03N01 JAN 04 Recall - Fuel Delivery Module Defect
02S41 JAN 03 Recall - Pinch Bolt Torque & Battery Cable Routing
02S42 JAN 03 Recall - Pinch Bolt Torque and Battery Cable Routing (really
same as 02S41)

2001 Focus

01S24 AUG 01 Recall - Defective Wiper Motor Switch/Gear Cover - see 2000,
not Focus specific
01S13 MAR 01 Recall - Seat Back Recliner Handle Spring Replacement - 8,500
vehicles damaged by a test, dealer to inspect / replace as necessary
00S55 JAN 01 Recall - Rear Seat Back Hinge Replacement
05S27S1 APR 05 Recall - Rear Door Latch Inspection/Door Seal Install (4
Door Models only)
03N01 JAN 04 Recall - Fuel Delivery Module Defect
02S41 JAN 03 Recall - Pinch Bolt Torque & Battery Cable Routing
02S42 JAN 03 Recall - Pinch Bolt Torque and Battery Cable Routing (really
same as 02S41)

2002 Focus

05S27S1 APR 05 Recall - Rear Door Latch Inspection/Door Seal Install (4
Doord Models only)
02S37 APR 02 Recall - Speed Control Cable/Throttle Body Defect

2003 Focus

No Safety Recalls

2004 Focus

No Safety Recalls

2005 Focus

No Safety Recalls

You seem so up on Ford Recalls, do you have any idea how Toyota stacks up?
How many safety recalls have affect Toyotas in recent years?

2000

Avalon - 1 00V154000
Camry - 2 00V154000, 01V012000
Solara - 1 00V154000
Echo - 3 00V256000, 01V326000, 04V455000
Celica - 2 04V566000, 04V45500,
RAV4 - 2 00V211000, 00V212000
Tacoma - 1 01E041000
Tundra -2 01E041000, 99V347003

2001

4Runner - 1 05V225000
Avalon - 1 01V072000
Camry - 2 01V072000, 01V012000
Celica - 1 04V566000
Echo -1 02V268000
Highlander - 3 02V208000, 04V181000, 01V228000
Prius - 1 00V285000
Sienna - 1 01V072000
Tacoma - 2 03V189000, 05V225000,

2002

4Runner - 1 05V225000
Camry - 3 04V346000, 01V372000, 01V306000
Celica - 1 03V074000
Echo - 1 02V268000
Highlander - 2 02V208000, 04V181000
Sequoia - 1 05V225000

2003

4Runner - 2 02V339000, 03V146000
Camry - 1 04V346000
Celica - 1 03V074000
Corolla - 1 02V074001
Highlander - 2 02V339000, 04V181000
Sequoia - 1 05V225000
Tacoma - 2 03V189000, 05V225000

2004

Camry - 2 04V346000, 04V595000
Corolla - 1 03V366000
Highlander -1 04V181000
Prius - 1 04V558000
Sequoia - 1 05V225000
Sienna - 2 03V291000, 05V327000
Tacoma - 2 05V225000, 04V214000

2005

Avalon - 1 05V227000
Camry - 1 04V595000
Scion TC - 1 05V483000
Tacoma - 2 05V302000, 05V050000
Tundra - 2 05V123000, 05V328000

So, counting distinct recalls by model (only counting recall programs once,
not once per year), in the last 5 years there have been 3 Avalon recalls, 7
Camry recalls, 1 Solara recall, 3 Echo recalls, 3 Celica recalls, 2 RAV4
recall, 7 Tacoma recalls, 4 Tundra recalls, 3 4Runner recalls, 5 Highlander
recalls, 2 Prius recalls (plus one pending), 3 Sienna recalls, and 1 Sequoia
recall. If you break down the Focus recalls by model, instead of lumping
them all together, the most recalled model has only 6 recalls (4 door
sedan). So, if you are fair, you should be screaming about Camrys which have
been recalled more often than 4 door Focus models over the last 5 years. The
Tacoma has been recalled even more often, but the model was significantly
redesigned in the last 5 years. If you consider the number of vehicles
affected by recall, well Camrys are the #1 selling car - you do the math.

You should also consider that the Focus was a new design when introduced in
2000. There have been no safety recalls for Focus models made in the last
three years. The Camry, a very mature design (in other words - old, stale,
obsolete, tired) is still generating recalls after 6 years. And you also
need to factor in Toyota stonewalling tactics. They never have a problem
till the whole world comes down on them......

I'll be waiting for your explanation of why Foci are bad and Camrys are
good.

Regards,

Ed White

C. E. White wrote:[color=blue]
> "Dan J.S." <me@hyperx.com> wrote in message
> news:11nuhn593hu0p1c@news.supernews.com...[color=green]
>> [url]http://www.autosafety.org/casresults.php?find=toyota&x=0&y=0[/url][/color]
>
> You need to consider the source of this information. Autosafety.org
> is run by trial lawyer for the benefit of trial lawyers.
>[color=green]
>> Do a search for "Ford" = 278 results[/color]
> Meaningless numer unless you you examin each one for significance. Is
> a recall to inspect a seat back latch on 500 cars as significant as a
> recall to inspect 700,000 vehicles with potentiall bad balljoits?
>
>[color=green]
>> Do a search for "Toyota" = 73 results[/color]
>
> See below
>[color=green]
>> Quote:
>>
>> At least 20 law enforcement officers have been killed in fiery
>> collisions involving Ford's Crown Victoria Police Interceptor, due
>> to an inadequate fuel system. The civilian platform of these
>> vehicles includes the Ford Crown Victoria, Mercury Grand Marquis,
>> and Lincoln Town Car, all with the same faulty fuel system. Ford
>> has fixed the police vehicles, but refuses to recall the civilian
>> cars.[/color]
>
> For Crown Victorias go read -
> [url]http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/10/03/national/main524280.shtml[/url]
>
> "The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said the car
> exceeds federal standards for fuel system safety and the rate of
> fires was no greater than with Chevrolet Caprice police cars.....
>
> "NHTSA said it is aware of only four fire-related rear crashes
> resulting in four deaths in more than 2.6 million civilian Crown
> Victoria cars."
> A Ford Crown Victoria has a much better injury loss rating than a
> Toyota Avalon or Camry. So, if you are worried about safety, you
> should be driving the Crown Victoria (see
> [url]http://www.iihs.org/brochures/ictl/ictl_4dr.html)[/url].[color=green]
>> With 12 safety recalls to date and 7 defect investigations, the Ford
>> Focus proved to be an embarrassment to Ford Motor Company and its
>> President[/color]
>
> This is exactly the sort of crap that drives me crazy. No single
> Focus model has been recalled 12 or 13 times. All the various Focus
> models from the last 5 years have been recalled 13 times combined.
> However, not all Focus models/years have been recalled. "Focus" is
> not a single car line. It is made up of 4 related but distinct
> models. Some models from some years have been recalled, most have not.
>
> Here is a brief history of Foci recalls:
>
> 2000 Focus
>
> 00S20S1 OCT 00 Recall - `A' Pillar Trim Replacement - 351,000
> vehicles - changes shape of a trim piece
> 01S24 AUG 01 Recall - Defective Wiper Motor Switch/Gear Cover - not
> Focus specific
> 00S55 JAN 01 Recall - Rear Seat Back Hinge Replacement - 95,000
> vehicles Focus ZX Wagon Only
> 00S50 DEC 00 Recall - Decklid Wire Harness Replacement - 74,500
> vehicles, wagons / hatchbacks not affected
> 00S31 OCT 00 Recall - Wheel Bearing Inspection/Retainer Installation -
> 203,700 vehicles, inspection of wheel bearing retaining nut to verify
> proper installation.
> 99S35 DEC 99 Recall - Speed Control Cable & Servo Replacement - 534
> vehicles, SVT models only.
> 05S27S1 APR 05 Recall - Rear Door Latch Inspection/Door Seal Install
> (4 Door Models only)
> 03N01 JAN 04 Recall - Fuel Delivery Module Defect
> 02S41 JAN 03 Recall - Pinch Bolt Torque & Battery Cable Routing
> 02S42 JAN 03 Recall - Pinch Bolt Torque and Battery Cable Routing
> (really same as 02S41)
>
> 2001 Focus
>
> 01S24 AUG 01 Recall - Defective Wiper Motor Switch/Gear Cover - see
> 2000, not Focus specific
> 01S13 MAR 01 Recall - Seat Back Recliner Handle Spring Replacement -
> 8,500 vehicles damaged by a test, dealer to inspect / replace as
> necessary 00S55 JAN 01 Recall - Rear Seat Back Hinge Replacement
> 05S27S1 APR 05 Recall - Rear Door Latch Inspection/Door Seal Install
> (4 Door Models only)
> 03N01 JAN 04 Recall - Fuel Delivery Module Defect
> 02S41 JAN 03 Recall - Pinch Bolt Torque & Battery Cable Routing
> 02S42 JAN 03 Recall - Pinch Bolt Torque and Battery Cable Routing
> (really same as 02S41)
>
> 2002 Focus
>
> 05S27S1 APR 05 Recall - Rear Door Latch Inspection/Door Seal Install
> (4 Doord Models only)
> 02S37 APR 02 Recall - Speed Control Cable/Throttle Body Defect
>
> 2003 Focus
>
> No Safety Recalls
>
> 2004 Focus
>
> No Safety Recalls
>
> 2005 Focus
>
> No Safety Recalls
>
> You seem so up on Ford Recalls, do you have any idea how Toyota
> stacks up? How many safety recalls have affect Toyotas in recent
> years?
> 2000
>
> Avalon - 1 00V154000
> Camry - 2 00V154000, 01V012000
> Solara - 1 00V154000
> Echo - 3 00V256000, 01V326000, 04V455000
> Celica - 2 04V566000, 04V45500,
> RAV4 - 2 00V211000, 00V212000
> Tacoma - 1 01E041000
> Tundra -2 01E041000, 99V347003
>
> 2001
>
> 4Runner - 1 05V225000
> Avalon - 1 01V072000
> Camry - 2 01V072000, 01V012000
> Celica - 1 04V566000
> Echo -1 02V268000
> Highlander - 3 02V208000, 04V181000, 01V228000
> Prius - 1 00V285000
> Sienna - 1 01V072000
> Tacoma - 2 03V189000, 05V225000,
>
> 2002
>
> 4Runner - 1 05V225000
> Camry - 3 04V346000, 01V372000, 01V306000
> Celica - 1 03V074000
> Echo - 1 02V268000
> Highlander - 2 02V208000, 04V181000
> Sequoia - 1 05V225000
>
> 2003
>
> 4Runner - 2 02V339000, 03V146000
> Camry - 1 04V346000
> Celica - 1 03V074000
> Corolla - 1 02V074001
> Highlander - 2 02V339000, 04V181000
> Sequoia - 1 05V225000
> Tacoma - 2 03V189000, 05V225000
>
> 2004
>
> Camry - 2 04V346000, 04V595000
> Corolla - 1 03V366000
> Highlander -1 04V181000
> Prius - 1 04V558000
> Sequoia - 1 05V225000
> Sienna - 2 03V291000, 05V327000
> Tacoma - 2 05V225000, 04V214000
>
> 2005
>
> Avalon - 1 05V227000
> Camry - 1 04V595000
> Scion TC - 1 05V483000
> Tacoma - 2 05V302000, 05V050000
> Tundra - 2 05V123000, 05V328000
>
> So, counting distinct recalls by model (only counting recall programs
> once, not once per year), in the last 5 years there have been 3
> Avalon recalls, 7 Camry recalls, 1 Solara recall, 3 Echo recalls, 3
> Celica recalls, 2 RAV4 recall, 7 Tacoma recalls, 4 Tundra recalls, 3
> 4Runner recalls, 5 Highlander recalls, 2 Prius recalls (plus one
> pending), 3 Sienna recalls, and 1 Sequoia recall. If you break down
> the Focus recalls by model, instead of lumping them all together, the
> most recalled model has only 6 recalls (4 door sedan). So, if you are
> fair, you should be screaming about Camrys which have been recalled
> more often than 4 door Focus models over the last 5 years. The Tacoma
> has been recalled even more often, but the model was significantly
> redesigned in the last 5 years. If you consider the number of
> vehicles affected by recall, well Camrys are the #1 selling car - you
> do the math.
> You should also consider that the Focus was a new design when
> introduced in 2000. There have been no safety recalls for Focus
> models made in the last three years. The Camry, a very mature design
> (in other words - old, stale, obsolete, tired) is still generating
> recalls after 6 years. And you also need to factor in Toyota
> stonewalling tactics. They never have a problem till the whole world
> comes down on them......
> I'll be waiting for your explanation of why Foci are bad and Camrys
> are good.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ed White[/color]

You'll never get it. In fact, if you skate around the auto transmission
issues, Accords are better than Camrys and there's no question that the '06
civic is much better than an '06 Corolla. Properly optioned, a Focus is a
better value than either and fun to drive. Let's see - what's left in the
Toyota fun-to-drive stable? Bozos dropped the Celica just as I was thinking
a GTS.

"FanJet" <FanJet27@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:VLsgf.2$%C3.692@newshog.newsread.com...
[color=blue]
> You'll never get it. In fact, if you skate around the auto transmission
> issues, Accords are better than Camrys and there's no question that the
> '06 civic is much better than an '06 Corolla. Properly optioned, a Focus
> is a better value than either and fun to drive. Let's see - what's left in
> the Toyota fun-to-drive stable? Bozos dropped the Celica just as I was
> thinking a GTS.[/color]

Huh? I was talking about safety recalls. Transmisisons? The only automatic
tranmission I've personally had fail was a Toyota....so go figure. Which
transmission issue am I skirting around in this thread?

Ed