Is there an intermediate kickdown in overdrive in '89 Cressida?

Driving an '89 Cressida auto trans, cruising along in OD and encountering a
slight hill or otherwise giving a slight amount of push on the accelerator,
I'll notice what feels like a mild kickdown - I hear a definite change in
engine/trans sound, the rpm's go up slightly, but it's not as big a change
as going out of OD. I've checked by disengaging the OD and it's different,
much more subtle than that.

Is there some kind of "intermediate" kickdown when in OD?

I have seen this when the torque converter unlocks; almost in anticipation of a downshift that does not occur.

Doc wrote:[color=blue]
>
> Driving an '89 Cressida auto trans, cruising along in OD and encountering a
> slight hill or otherwise giving a slight amount of push on the accelerator,
> I'll notice what feels like a mild kickdown - I hear a definite change in
> engine/trans sound, the rpm's go up slightly, but it's not as big a change
> as going out of OD. I've checked by disengaging the OD and it's different,
> much more subtle than that.
>
> Is there some kind of "intermediate" kickdown when in OD?[/color]

--
Mike Walsh
West Palm Beach, Florida, U.S.A.

"Mike Walsh" <spamscks@netrox.net> wrote in message
news:4384C478.874757C2@netrox.net...[color=blue]
>
> I have seen this when the torque converter unlocks; almost in anticipation
> of a downshift that does not occur.
>[/color]

Besides allowing slippage when the vehicle is stopped, the torque converter
provides torque multiplication when acelerating.
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply
[color=blue]
> Doc wrote:[color=green]
>>
>> Driving an '89 Cressida auto trans, cruising along in OD and encountering
>> a
>> slight hill or otherwise giving a slight amount of push on the
>> accelerator,
>> I'll notice what feels like a mild kickdown - I hear a definite change
>> in
>> engine/trans sound, the rpm's go up slightly, but it's not as big a
>> change
>> as going out of OD. I've checked by disengaging the OD and it's
>> different,
>> much more subtle than that.
>>
>> Is there some kind of "intermediate" kickdown when in OD?[/color]
>
> --
> Mike Walsh
> West Palm Beach, Florida, U.S.A.[/color]

On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 19:30:02 GMT, "Doc" <docsavage20@xhotmail.com>
wrote:
[color=blue]
>Driving an '89 Cressida auto trans, cruising along in OD and encountering a
>slight hill or otherwise giving a slight amount of push on the accelerator,
>I'll notice what feels like a mild kickdown - I hear a definite change in
>engine/trans sound, the rpm's go up slightly, but it's not as big a change
>as going out of OD. I've checked by disengaging the OD and it's different,
>much more subtle than that.
>
>Is there some kind of "intermediate" kickdown when in OD?
>[/color]

The transmission will downshift if you apply enough pressure to the
accelerator. You'll notice it more if you use the cruise control
since cc wait's longer before adjusting your speed than you do.

It's not intermediate. It really is just going back into plain-old
third gear.

--
gburnore at DataBasix dot Com
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Mike is right - the torque converter is "locked up" to reduce
slippage/improve mileage. a bit of resistance or slight acceleration
causes it to unlock. It will (transmission) shift down with either
more throttle pressure or increased resistance.

"Gary L. Burnore" <gburnore@databasix.com> wrote in message
news:dm2jbj$8d9$1@blackhelicopter.databasix.com...
[color=blue]
> It's not intermediate. It really is just going back into plain-old
> third gear.[/color]

It's definitely not going out of OD into 3rd, it's far more subtle than
that. I believe other responders have probably id'd it correctly as related
to the torque converter.

"Doc" <docsavage20@xhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Ow5hf.4678$wf.4107@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...[color=blue]
>
> "Gary L. Burnore" <gburnore@databasix.com> wrote in message
> news:dm2jbj$8d9$1@blackhelicopter.databasix.com...
>[color=green]
>> It's not intermediate. It really is just going back into plain-old
>> third gear.[/color]
>
> It's definitely not going out of OD into 3rd, it's far more subtle than
> that. I believe other responders have probably id'd it correctly as
> related
> to the torque converter.
>[/color]

Rather than trying to decide whose wild guess is correct or incorrect, it is
very easy to tell for yourself.

Pushing the overdrive button will drop the transmission down to 3rd gear.

If you want to unlock the torque converter while at a steady cruise, tap the
brake pedal just enough to make the brake lights come on. Having the brake
lights come on will trick the transmission ECU into unlocking the torque
converter. You should see about 100 to 200 RPM increase with the torque
converter unlocked.

--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply

Sorry its not the same car, but my 90 Maxima does the same thing, almost
like a 5 speed auto.my nephew, a trans mechanic says there are "partial"
lockup convertors, when mine is in OD and a I come to a slight grade it
will downshift, but not into third, it gains about 200 rpm, if the grade
steepens or I depress the throttle slightly more it will downshift again
but still not into 3rd, further grade or more TP will definately shift
into third, I've had this car 5 years and its done this the whole time.
Just my .02
Stuuder

Ray O wrote:[color=blue]
> "Doc" <docsavage20@xhotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Ow5hf.4678$wf.4107@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>[color=green]
>>"Gary L. Burnore" <gburnore@databasix.com> wrote in message
>>news:dm2jbj$8d9$1@blackhelicopter.databasix.com...
>>
>>[color=darkred]
>>>It's not intermediate. It really is just going back into plain-old
>>>third gear.[/color]
>>
>>It's definitely not going out of OD into 3rd, it's far more subtle than
>>that. I believe other responders have probably id'd it correctly as
>>related
>>to the torque converter.
>>[/color]
>
>
> Rather than trying to decide whose wild guess is correct or incorrect, it is
> very easy to tell for yourself.
>
> Pushing the overdrive button will drop the transmission down to 3rd gear.
>
> If you want to unlock the torque converter while at a steady cruise, tap the
> brake pedal just enough to make the brake lights come on. Having the brake
> lights come on will trick the transmission ECU into unlocking the torque
> converter. You should see about 100 to 200 RPM increase with the torque
> converter unlocked.
>[/color]

"Doc" <docsavage20@xhotmail.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>"Gary L. Burnore" <gburnore@databasix.com> wrote in message
>news:dm2jbj$8d9$1@blackhelicopter.databasix.com...
>[color=green]
>> It's not intermediate. It really is just going back into plain-old
>> third gear.[/color]
>
>It's definitely not going out of OD into 3rd, it's far more subtle than
>that. I believe other responders have probably id'd it correctly as related
>to the torque converter.
>[/color]
But it can't be that, the torque converter is a smooth process
from 'no power out' to 'full power out'...there's no 'stages'
involved,

If you keep increasing the TC input shaft speed then the output
shaft speed (or power) will increase...this will continue until
something breaks, the oil in there boils or the whole thing
explodes.

I know what he means by this subtle rpm change, it certainly
isn't the comparatively large rpm change that you get when you
select 'OD off'...incidentally, what exactly are you doing when
you select that OD switch?
--

-Gord.
(use gordon in email)

"Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOT.com> wrote in message
news:cf658$4384e995$44a4a10d$16172@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=blue]
>
> "Doc" <docsavage20@xhotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Ow5hf.4678$wf.4107@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...[color=green]
>>
>> "Gary L. Burnore" <gburnore@databasix.com> wrote in message
>> news:dm2jbj$8d9$1@blackhelicopter.databasix.com...
>>[color=darkred]
>>> It's not intermediate. It really is just going back into plain-old
>>> third gear.[/color]
>>
>> It's definitely not going out of OD into 3rd, it's far more subtle than
>> that. I believe other responders have probably id'd it correctly as
>> related
>> to the torque converter.
>>[/color]
>
> Rather than trying to decide whose wild guess is correct or incorrect, it
> is very easy to tell for yourself.
>
> Pushing the overdrive button will drop the transmission down to 3rd gear.
>
> If you want to unlock the torque converter while at a steady cruise, tap
> the brake pedal just enough to make the brake lights come on. Having the
> brake lights come on will trick the transmission ECU into unlocking the
> torque converter. You should see about 100 to 200 RPM increase with the
> torque converter unlocked.
>
> --
> Ray O
> correct the return address punctuation to reply
>[/color]

Hey Doc, I believe Ray O has hit the nail on the head. It's pretty easy to
determine what's going on. Hope you have a happy Thanksgiving.
Bob

"Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOT.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>"Doc" <docsavage20@xhotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:Ow5hf.4678$wf.4107@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...[color=green]
>>
>> "Gary L. Burnore" <gburnore@databasix.com> wrote in message
>> news:dm2jbj$8d9$1@blackhelicopter.databasix.com...
>>[color=darkred]
>>> It's not intermediate. It really is just going back into plain-old
>>> third gear.[/color]
>>
>> It's definitely not going out of OD into 3rd, it's far more subtle than
>> that. I believe other responders have probably id'd it correctly as
>> related
>> to the torque converter.
>>[/color]
>
>Rather than trying to decide whose wild guess is correct or incorrect, it is
>very easy to tell for yourself.
>
>Pushing the overdrive button will drop the transmission down to 3rd gear.
>[/color]

Ok Ray, so the 'overdrive' is merely 'another higher sped' gear
in the transmission is it?...has nothing to do (directly) with
the torque converter?
[color=blue]
>If you want to unlock the torque converter while at a steady cruise, tap the
>brake pedal just enough to make the brake lights come on. Having the brake
>lights come on will trick the transmission ECU into unlocking the torque
>converter. You should see about 100 to 200 RPM increase with the torque
>converter unlocked.[/color]

Ok, thanks...
--

-Gord.
(use gordon in email)

"Gord Beaman" <gord@islandtelecom.com> wrote in message
news:unaao11nq27nkcbd16drutjehhta3c1qhk@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> "Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOT.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>
>>"Doc" <docsavage20@xhotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:Ow5hf.4678$wf.4107@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...[color=darkred]
>>>
>>> "Gary L. Burnore" <gburnore@databasix.com> wrote in message
>>> news:dm2jbj$8d9$1@blackhelicopter.databasix.com...
>>>
>>>> It's not intermediate. It really is just going back into plain-old
>>>> third gear.
>>>
>>> It's definitely not going out of OD into 3rd, it's far more subtle than
>>> that. I believe other responders have probably id'd it correctly as
>>> related
>>> to the torque converter.
>>>[/color]
>>
>>Rather than trying to decide whose wild guess is correct or incorrect, it
>>is
>>very easy to tell for yourself.
>>
>>Pushing the overdrive button will drop the transmission down to 3rd gear.
>>[/color]
>
> Ok Ray, so the 'overdrive' is merely 'another higher sped' gear
> in the transmission is it?...has nothing to do (directly) with
> the torque converter?[/color]

Overdrive is just 4th gear. The sequence is 1 to 2; 2 to 3; TC lockup in
3rd; TC unlock and shift to 4th (A.K.A. overdrive), TC lockup in 4th.[color=blue]
>[color=green]
>>If you want to unlock the torque converter while at a steady cruise, tap
>>the
>>brake pedal just enough to make the brake lights come on. Having the
>>brake
>>lights come on will trick the transmission ECU into unlocking the torque
>>converter. You should see about 100 to 200 RPM increase with the torque
>>converter unlocked.[/color][/color]

Since 4th gear is an overdrive gear, the transmission output shaft is
turning more slowly than the engine so it takes a lot more torque to
accelerate. To accomplish this, the TC unlocks to allow the TC to develop
torque multiplication, kind of like twisting a rubber band, and if more
torque is needed, then it downshifts to 3rd or 2nd, depending on vehicle
speed and throttle position.[color=blue]
>
> Ok, thanks...
> --
>
> -Gord.
> (use gordon in email)[/color]
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply

"Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOT.com> wrote in message
news:cf658$4384e995$44a4a10d$16172@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
[color=blue]
> Rather than trying to decide whose wild guess is correct or incorrect, it[/color]
is[color=blue]
> very easy to tell for yourself.
>
> Pushing the overdrive button will drop the transmission down to 3rd gear.[/color]

Right. If you go back to my original post I mentioned trying this and that
it was comparatively very different than what I'm experiencing.

Hi Gord,
Thanks for the christmas tree. It is a beauty as usual. Mayor
Menino is going the politically correct route this year by calling it a
holiday tree. Maybe you folks should think about stopping the
tradition.
Unlocking the torque converter was a feature of the Ultramatic
transmission the 1950 Packard I once owned. The "bathtub".

Ron


Gord Beaman wrote:[color=blue]
> "Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOT.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
> >
> >"Doc" <docsavage20@xhotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:Ow5hf.4678$wf.4107@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...[color=darkred]
> >>
> >> "Gary L. Burnore" <gburnore@databasix.com> wrote in message
> >> news:dm2jbj$8d9$1@blackhelicopter.databasix.com...
> >>
> >>> It's not intermediate. It really is just going back into plain-old
> >>> third gear.
> >>
> >> It's definitely not going out of OD into 3rd, it's far more subtle than
> >> that. I believe other responders have probably id'd it correctly as
> >> related
> >> to the torque converter.
> >>[/color]
> >
> >Rather than trying to decide whose wild guess is correct or incorrect, it is
> >very easy to tell for yourself.
> >
> >Pushing the overdrive button will drop the transmission down to 3rd gear.
> >[/color]
>
> Ok Ray, so the 'overdrive' is merely 'another higher sped' gear
> in the transmission is it?...has nothing to do (directly) with
> the torque converter?
>[color=green]
> >If you want to unlock the torque converter while at a steady cruise, tap the
> >brake pedal just enough to make the brake lights come on. Having the brake
> >lights come on will trick the transmission ECU into unlocking the torque
> >converter. You should see about 100 to 200 RPM increase with the torque
> >converter unlocked.[/color]
>
> Ok, thanks...
> --
>
> -Gord.
> (use gordon in email)[/color]

On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 20:59:49 -0800, n877 wrote:
[color=blue]
> Hi Gord,
> Thanks for the christmas tree. It is a beauty as usual. Mayor
> Menino is going the politically correct route this year by calling it a
> holiday tree. Maybe you folks should think about stopping the
> tradition.[/color]

I was home the day they erected the 'holiday tree' and they had an
interesting survey on Channel 4. The only person calling it a 'holiday
tree' was some yuppie white chick. Even the blacks and the foreigners were
saying "Christmas Tree"!!!!

How is Mumbles these days?

[color=blue]
> Unlocking the torque converter was a feature of the Ultramatic
> transmission the 1950 Packard I once owned. The "bathtub".
>
> Ron
>
>
> Gord Beaman wrote:[color=green]
>> "Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOT.com> wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>> >
>> >"Doc" <docsavage20@xhotmail.com> wrote in message
>> >news:Ow5hf.4678$wf.4107@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>> >>
>> >> "Gary L. Burnore" <gburnore@databasix.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:dm2jbj$8d9$1@blackhelicopter.databasix.com...
>> >>
>> >>> It's not intermediate. It really is just going back into plain-old
>> >>> third gear.
>> >>
>> >> It's definitely not going out of OD into 3rd, it's far more subtle than
>> >> that. I believe other responders have probably id'd it correctly as
>> >> related
>> >> to the torque converter.
>> >>
>> >
>> >Rather than trying to decide whose wild guess is correct or incorrect, it is
>> >very easy to tell for yourself.
>> >
>> >Pushing the overdrive button will drop the transmission down to 3rd gear.
>> >[/color]
>>
>> Ok Ray, so the 'overdrive' is merely 'another higher sped' gear
>> in the transmission is it?...has nothing to do (directly) with
>> the torque converter?
>>[color=darkred]
>> >If you want to unlock the torque converter while at a steady cruise, tap the
>> >brake pedal just enough to make the brake lights come on. Having the brake
>> >lights come on will trick the transmission ECU into unlocking the torque
>> >converter. You should see about 100 to 200 RPM increase with the torque
>> >converter unlocked.[/color]
>>
>> Ok, thanks...
>> --
>>
>> -Gord.
>> (use gordon in email)[/color][/color]

--
If a Vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat?