Toyota Camry Oil Gelling or Oil Sludging

I own a 1999 Toyota Camry which I suspect has fallen victim of the oil
gelling or sludging that is common on these vehicles. I discovered the
problem several years ago and ran a detergent for over 1.5 years to
rememdy the condition and remove old deposits. This was before I heard
about Toyota's policy to mechanically fix the problem depending on the
amount of damage.
My question is whether the detergents have most likely removed any
evidence of the condition which would prevent them from fixing it. I
spoke with a service manager at the dealership and he indicated that
the crystalization of the sludging would still be evident underneath
the valve cover regardless of how much detergent I ran through. I
would really like the problem corrected but I am leary that the dealer
may decline repairs because the evidence of sludging is now gone.
Comments are appreciated.
Thanks.

<rwessley@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1133990502.550581.254810@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>I own a 1999 Toyota Camry which I suspect has fallen victim of the oil
> gelling or sludging that is common on these vehicles. I discovered the
> problem several years ago and ran a detergent for over 1.5 years to
> rememdy the condition and remove old deposits. This was before I heard
> about Toyota's policy to mechanically fix the problem depending on the
> amount of damage.
> My question is whether the detergents have most likely removed any
> evidence of the condition which would prevent them from fixing it. I
> spoke with a service manager at the dealership and he indicated that
> the crystalization of the sludging would still be evident underneath
> the valve cover regardless of how much detergent I ran through. I
> would really like the problem corrected but I am leary that the dealer
> may decline repairs because the evidence of sludging is now gone.
> Comments are appreciated.
> Thanks.
>[/color]
Take it to the dealer (preferably the same person you already talked to). If
they decline a warranty repair or say their is no damage, then take it to
another dealer.

Toyota pays for the repair, not the dealer. But if the dealer is very busy
with non-warranty repairs they may try to say no (if it is questionable)
since they don't make as much money on warranty repairs.

<rwessley@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1133990502.550581.254810@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>I own a 1999 Toyota Camry which I suspect has fallen victim of the oil
> gelling or sludging that is common on these vehicles. I discovered the
> problem several years ago and ran a detergent for over 1.5 years to
> rememdy the condition and remove old deposits. This was before I heard
> about Toyota's policy to mechanically fix the problem depending on the
> amount of damage.
> My question is whether the detergents have most likely removed any
> evidence of the condition which would prevent them from fixing it. I
> spoke with a service manager at the dealership and he indicated that
> the crystalization of the sludging would still be evident underneath
> the valve cover regardless of how much detergent I ran through. I
> would really like the problem corrected but I am leary that the dealer
> may decline repairs because the evidence of sludging is now gone.
> Comments are appreciated.
> Thanks.
>[/color]

Once oil has sludged or gelled in the engine, no amount of detergent will
clean enough of it out of the engine to make a difference. Toyota's
Special Customer Support Program covers specific conditions within a
specific time frame and mileage. Go to [url]www.toyota.com[/url], under the "About
Toyota" drop down menu near the top of the page, click on the "Search/Help"
link, then click on the "Frequently Asked Questions: link, the search "oil
gel." For Toyota to cover the repair, besides the time and mileage and
vehicle restrictions, you need to present evidence of oil changes at
"reasonable intervals".
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply

<rwessley@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1133990502.550581.254810@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>I own a 1999 Toyota Camry which I suspect has fallen victim of the oil
> gelling or sludging that is common on these vehicles. I discovered the
> problem several years ago and ran a detergent for over 1.5 years to
> rememdy the condition and remove old deposits. This was before I heard
> about Toyota's policy to mechanically fix the problem depending on the
> amount of damage.
> My question is whether the detergents have most likely removed any
> evidence of the condition which would prevent them from fixing it. I
> spoke with a service manager at the dealership and he indicated that
> the crystalization of the sludging would still be evident underneath
> the valve cover regardless of how much detergent I ran through. I
> would really like the problem corrected but I am leary that the dealer
> may decline repairs because the evidence of sludging is now gone.
> Comments are appreciated.[/color]

Exactly what problem do you want corrected? Is the engine burning oil? If
there is no evidence of sludging (oil gelation), exactly what do you think
you need? How many miles on the engine?

Ed

In article <AsadnYK6S7OdyQreRVn-vQ@comcast.com>,
"Mark A" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
> Take it to the dealer (preferably the same person you already talked to). If
> they decline a warranty repair or say their is no damage, then take it to
> another dealer.
>
> Toyota pays for the repair, not the dealer. But if the dealer is very busy
> with non-warranty repairs they may try to say no (if it is questionable)
> since they don't make as much money on warranty repairs.[/color]

But YOU have to pay for the inspection, unless it turns out to be gelled,
then both the inspection and repair is covered.

Been there, done that.

Merritt

Thank you all for your replies. I am a bit concerned because I haven't
kept reciepts from all oil changes, but have had them done regularly at
3,000 mile intervals. Currently the car is burning 1 quart of oil for
every 1,600 miles and only has ~63,000 miles on the engine. Thank you
for all the help. I intend to take the car into the dealership within
the next 3 weeks.

On 8 Dec 2005 06:33:35 -0800, [email]rwessley@gmail.com[/email] wrote:
[color=blue]
>Thank you all for your replies. I am a bit concerned because I haven't
>kept reciepts from all oil changes, but have had them done regularly at
>3,000 mile intervals. Currently the car is burning 1 quart of oil for
>every 1,600 miles and only has ~63,000 miles on the engine. Thank you
>for all the help. I intend to take the car into the dealership within
>the next 3 weeks.[/color]

Where have we heard this story before?

'I haven't kept receipts from all oil changes'

Good grief...why do people buy expensive automobiles and not take care
of them?

--

Scott in Florida

"Scott in Florida" <JustAsk@Florida.com> wrote in message
news:ntlgp19f6g376odn4ru512jnmsue3936ce@4ax.com...
[color=blue]
> Good grief...why do people buy expensive automobiles and not take care
> of them?[/color]

A better question is, why do people pay "expensive automobile" pricces for
mediocre cars?

Ed

<rwessley@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1134052415.243691.252410@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> Thank you all for your replies. I am a bit concerned because I haven't
> kept reciepts from all oil changes, but have had them done regularly at
> 3,000 mile intervals. Currently the car is burning 1 quart of oil for
> every 1,600 miles and only has ~63,000 miles on the engine. Thank you
> for all the help. I intend to take the car into the dealership within
> the next 3 weeks.[/color]

I don't think any manufacturer would consider 1 quart in 1,600 miles
excessive oil consumption for a vehicle with 63,000 miles. I've never owned
a Japanese car that was that good after 60,000 miles (1 Nissan, 1 Toyota, 1
Mazda, plus my Sister has owned two Hondas, and my SO had another Toyota).

All piston engines consume oil. In some cases the oil consumption is masked
by contamination added to the oil from blow-by gases that condense in the
oil sump. Most Japanese cars tend to have fairly "loose" piston rings
(reduced tension which reduces friction) and therefore allow more blow-by
past the rings than typical US and European engines. This is not necessarily
a bad thing since the lighter ring tension improves fuel economy and reduces
piston bore wear. It does increase the burden on the PCV system but in most
cases this not a problem (although apparently it is for the Toyota engines
that tend to have problems with sludge formation).

Before you take your vehicle to the dealer, take a good look into the valve
cover through the oil filler hole. If it looks clean inside, I doubt your
are going to have much of a case for a sludge rebuild.

I am curious - what sort of "detergent" did you use to try and remove the
sludge? Did you actually see sludge before you started using the detergent,
or was the use of detergent a response to all the negative (and probably
overblown) press coverage?

Ed

Not sure what the detergent is named. The garage I have used for the
last several years of oil changes on this vehicle had a service
bulliten posted for Toyota owners citing Toyota's recommendations.
I've never owned a Toyota, Subaru or Mazda that's consumed oil so
quickly. I've own several with double the mileage of this vehicle that
still are not burning oil. Is it possible that a bad PCV valve could
contribute to oil consumption. I'm not sure if that is the case, maybe
I should attempt that before I take it into the dealership.

In article <1134073751.733803.143300@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
[email]rwessley@gmail.com[/email] wrote:
[color=blue]
> Not sure what the detergent is named. The garage I have used for the
> last several years of oil changes on this vehicle had a service
> bulliten posted for Toyota owners citing Toyota's recommendations.
> I've never owned a Toyota, Subaru or Mazda that's consumed oil so
> quickly. I've own several with double the mileage of this vehicle that
> still are not burning oil. Is it possible that a bad PCV valve could
> contribute to oil consumption. I'm not sure if that is the case, maybe
> I should attempt that before I take it into the dealership.[/color]

If it is like mine, the oil consumption is not due to worn rings or valve
guides/seals, but rather from oil being transferred from under the valve
cover to the intake manifold because of a problem in the crankcase
ventilation system (in my case, clogged baffles in the valve covers).

While some oil consumption is normal (even necessary), I have owned a
number of Toyotas (all four cylinders) with higher mileage than my current
V6 that had the problem, and all of them used less than a quart between
oil changes (3,000-5,000 miles).

Merritt

On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 17:23:35 GMT, "C. E. White"
<cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>"Scott in Florida" <JustAsk@Florida.com> wrote in message
>news:ntlgp19f6g376odn4ru512jnmsue3936ce@4ax.com...
>[color=green]
>> Good grief...why do people buy expensive automobiles and not take care
>> of them?[/color]
>
>A better question is, why do people pay "expensive automobile" pricces for
>mediocre cars?
>
>Ed
>[/color]

Beats me why anyone buys a Ford or GM or Crapsler car...

--

Scott in Florida

Hi Merritt,
What did you do to remedy the clogged baffles?


Merritt Mullen wrote:[color=blue]
> In article <1134073751.733803.143300@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
> [email]rwessley@gmail.com[/email] wrote:
>[color=green]
> > Not sure what the detergent is named. The garage I have used for the
> > last several years of oil changes on this vehicle had a service
> > bulliten posted for Toyota owners citing Toyota's recommendations.
> > I've never owned a Toyota, Subaru or Mazda that's consumed oil so
> > quickly. I've own several with double the mileage of this vehicle that
> > still are not burning oil. Is it possible that a bad PCV valve could
> > contribute to oil consumption. I'm not sure if that is the case, maybe
> > I should attempt that before I take it into the dealership.[/color]
>
> If it is like mine, the oil consumption is not due to worn rings or valve
> guides/seals, but rather from oil being transferred from under the valve
> cover to the intake manifold because of a problem in the crankcase
> ventilation system (in my case, clogged baffles in the valve covers).
>
> While some oil consumption is normal (even necessary), I have owned a
> number of Toyotas (all four cylinders) with higher mileage than my current
> V6 that had the problem, and all of them used less than a quart between
> oil changes (3,000-5,000 miles).
>
> Merritt[/color]

Are you telling us you get beat you every time somebody buys something other
than a Toyota? Goodness man you must be sore as hell. You should ask
them to beat you when someone buys a Toyota, you would get millions of fewer
beatings annually. ;)

mike hunt


"Scott in Florida" <JustAsk@Florida.com> wrote in message
news:8lhhp150ued0let1l3c78s8kiclabviccq@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 17:23:35 GMT, "C. E. White"
> <cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>
>>"Scott in Florida" <JustAsk@Florida.com> wrote in message
>>news:ntlgp19f6g376odn4ru512jnmsue3936ce@4ax.com...
>>[color=darkred]
>>> Good grief...why do people buy expensive automobiles and not take care
>>> of them?[/color]
>>
>>A better question is, why do people pay "expensive automobile" prices for
>>mediocre cars?
>>
>>Ed
>>[/color]
>
> Beats me why anyone buys a Ford or GM or Crapsler car...
>
> --
>
> Scott in Florida[/color]

Not to worry. Toyotas 'gelling' problem, as they refer to sludge, has
nothing to do with oil changes. Gelling was the unwanted result of a head
design, that was corrected in models built after August of 2003. At least
that is what Toyota referred to as the cause in its notification to its
dealerships when Toyota extended the warranty to any owner experiencing the
gelling problem. If you believe you engine is one of those built during the
period when the problematic head was used, contact your local Toyota dealer.
Dealers have been authorized to 'inspect, clean, repair, or replace as
necessary' any engine adversely effected for a period of up to eight years,
unlimited mileage, from the in service date. The local dealer can advise you
if your vehicle is indeed has one of the engines involved. The dealership
will correct the problem for you if it does, at no charge. Toyota no longer
requires that the vehicle was serviced at a dealership nor do you need to
provide receipts, as they did when the problem first surfaced, before they
issue the warranty extension. You need only 'attest' that you changed the
oil at 'reasonable' intervals.

VW, SAAB and Chrysler have a similar problem with some of their engines and
have offered extended their warranties as well.

mike hunt


<rwessley@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1134052415.243691.252410@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> Thank you all for your replies. I am a bit concerned because I haven't
> kept reciepts from all oil changes, but have had them done regularly at
> 3,000 mile intervals. Currently the car is burning 1 quart of oil for
> every 1,600 miles and only has ~63,000 miles on the engine. Thank you
> for all the help. I intend to take the car into the dealership within
> the next 3 weeks.
>[/color]