OT: If Tookie really is sorry

If Tookie is really sorry for what he did, why doesn't he disband the gang
he started?

He's not. The Crypts and the associated gangs here in Chicago, are still
killing as often as they can actually aim and hit . And of course, the
innocent bystanders that accidentally get in the way of bullets. . . .

Let him pay for his crime. Two words all the liberals forget: Personal
responsibility.

Charles

Charles @ Kankakee wrote:[color=blue]
> If Tookie is really sorry for what he did, why doesn't he disband the gang
> he started?[/color]

You're dumb.
[color=blue]
>
> He's not.[/color]

He's on Death Row. I doubt that from there he's going to be able to
disband a bunch of punks who happen to take the name of the gang he
didn't even start.
[color=blue]
> The Crypts and the associated gangs here in Chicago, are still
> killing as often as they can actually aim and hit . And of course, the[/color]

He's been locked away for over 20 years. Now look. I know he's black
and everything, but that doesn't mean he's responsible for all those
murders.
[color=blue]
> innocent bystanders that accidentally get in the way of bullets. . . .
>
> Let him pay for his crime. Two words all the liberals forget: Personal
> responsibility.[/color]

Yeah. Something you know absolutely nothing about.

"Learning Richard" <learningrichard@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1134337907.952295.318900@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>
> Charles @ Kankakee wrote:[color=green]
>> If Tookie is really sorry for what he did, why doesn't he disband the
>> gang
>> he started?[/color]
>
> You're dumb.
>[/color]

You're dumber.
[color=blue][color=green]
>>
>> He's not.[/color]
>
> He's on Death Row. I doubt that from there he's going to be able to
> disband a bunch of punks who happen to take the name of the gang he
> didn't even start.
>[/color]

If he's such a peacenick, why isn't he trying to fix the mess he started.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> The Crypts and the associated gangs here in Chicago, are still
>> killing as often as they can actually aim and hit . And of course, the[/color]
>
> He's been locked away for over 20 years. Now look. I know he's black
> and everything, but that doesn't mean he's responsible for all those
> murders.[/color]

Yes, but if he actually tried to do something about it, he is one of the few
people that would have enough influence to actually get these punks
attention.[color=blue]
>[color=green]
>> innocent bystanders that accidentally get in the way of bullets. . . .
>>
>> Let him pay for his crime. Two words all the liberals forget: Personal
>> responsibility.[/color]
>
> Yeah. Something you know absolutely nothing about.
>[/color]

Yes, I do. It appears that you do not. Why would you say I don't know what
personal responsibility is?

Charles

Charles @ Kankakee wrote:[color=blue]
> "Learning Richard" <learningrichard@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1134337907.952295.318900@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=green]
> >
> > Charles @ Kankakee wrote:[color=darkred]
> >> If Tookie is really sorry for what he did, why doesn't he disband the
> >> gang
> >> he started?[/color]
> >
> > You're dumb.
> >[/color]
>
> You're dumber.[/color]

prove it.
[color=blue]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> >>
> >> He's not.[/color]
> >
> > He's on Death Row. I doubt that from there he's going to be able to
> > disband a bunch of punks who happen to take the name of the gang he
> > didn't even start.
> >[/color]
>
> If he's such a peacenick, why isn't he trying to fix the mess he started.[/color]

I take it you haven't been following the news? All of the childrens'
books.... the joint initiatives with social groups worldwide to stamp
out gangs and drug abuse, the tons of support he has worldwide,
including folks such as Winnie Mandela, the wife of Nelson Mandela, who
took Apartheid down in South Africa (doh you prolly don't like him too
much).
[color=blue]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> >> The Crypts and the associated gangs here in Chicago, are still
> >> killing as often as they can actually aim and hit . And of course, the[/color]
> >
> > He's been locked away for over 20 years. Now look. I know he's black
> > and everything, but that doesn't mean he's responsible for all those
> > murders.[/color]
>
> Yes, but if he actually tried to do something about it, he is one of the few
> people that would have enough influence to actually get these punks
> attention.[/color]

Seems to me that there is very well substantiated evidence that he has
in fact reached out, in a very big way, to the disenfranchised and
misguided youth of this country.

More so than either you or I.
[color=blue][color=green]
> >[color=darkred]
> >> innocent bystanders that accidentally get in the way of bullets. . . .
> >>
> >> Let him pay for his crime. Two words all the liberals forget: Personal
> >> responsibility.[/color]
> >
> > Yeah. Something you know absolutely nothing about.
> >[/color]
>
> Yes, I do. It appears that you do not. Why would you say I don't know what
> personal responsibility is?[/color]

You're confusing hard times and hard luck with personal responsibility.
Ahh and before you protest... take a look at how far we've come in the
past 35 years in terms of racial equality.

Or, perhaps you don't think we've come that far? Because compared to
now, I think we were pretty flummoxed back then.

Think you can wrap your head 'round that one?

Learning Richard, 12/11/2005,4:51:48 PM, wrote:
[color=blue]
> He's been locked away for over 20 years. Now look. I know he's black
> and everything, but that doesn't mean he's responsible for all those
> murders.[/color]

Richard is really the one who is sorry.

Quit telling people you don't even know in an automotive forum to
"prove" this animal is guilty. He's already been proven over and over
again to be guilty. Even the most liberal appeals court in the country
won't overturn his conviction.

If he's done anything worthy since murdering those innocent people then
God will take note of that when they meet each other.

--
"The moral rot of political correctness runs deep today in both
national parties."
~ Patrick J. Buchanan

"Learning Richard" <learningrichard@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1134337907.952295.318900@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>
> Charles @ Kankakee wrote:[color=green]
>> If Tookie is really sorry for what he did, why doesn't he disband the
>> gang
>> he started?[/color]
>
> You're dumb.
>[color=green]
>>
>> He's not.[/color]
>
> He's on Death Row. I doubt that from there he's going to be able to
> disband a bunch of punks who happen to take the name of the gang he
> didn't even start.
>[/color]

He can't disband his own gang, but he can influence children to not join.
Yeah, right.




[color=blue][color=green]
>> The Crypts and the associated gangs here in Chicago, are still
>> killing as often as they can actually aim and hit . And of course, the[/color]
>
> He's been locked away for over 20 years. Now look. I know he's black
> and everything, but that doesn't mean he's responsible for all those
> murders.
>[/color]

He's directoy responsible for at least four murders.


[color=blue][color=green]
>> innocent bystanders that accidentally get in the way of bullets. . . .
>>
>> Let him pay for his crime. Two words all the liberals forget: Personal
>> responsibility.[/color]
>
> Yeah. Something you know absolutely nothing about.
>[/color]

When you're not on Death Row, the odds of having to own up to personal
reaponsibility to the extent that Tookie has to are very remote.

"badgolferman" <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:xn0eavh1n2qhcuj001@news.readfreenews.net...[color=blue]
> Learning Richard, 12/11/2005,4:51:48 PM, wrote:
>[color=green]
>> He's been locked away for over 20 years. Now look. I know he's black
>> and everything, but that doesn't mean he's responsible for all those
>> murders.[/color]
>
> Richard is really the one who is sorry.
>
> Quit telling people you don't even know in an automotive forum to
> "prove" this animal is guilty. He's already been proven over and over
> again to be guilty. Even the most liberal appeals court in the country
> won't overturn his conviction.
>[/color]

That's true. The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals upheld his conviction. The
only question today is if his book series atones for the wrongs he did ... I
say, no.


[color=blue]
> If he's done anything worthy since murdering those innocent people then
> God will take note of that when they meet each other.
>
> --
> "The moral rot of political correctness runs deep today in both
> national parties."
> ~ Patrick J. Buchanan[/color]

badgolferman wrote:[color=blue]
> Learning Richard, 12/11/2005,4:51:48 PM, wrote:
>[color=green]
> > He's been locked away for over 20 years. Now look. I know he's black
> > and everything, but that doesn't mean he's responsible for all those
> > murders.[/color]
>
> Richard is really the one who is sorry.[/color]

Why? Is this just another little bit of your 12 Step Character
Assassination? Man... the dissonance in your head must give you
headaches and premature baldness.

You should probably read the chapter on "Relapse and Recovery". Then
maybe you should try it. If it don't kill ya, maybe when you come back
you'll be ready to ... how do they say ... get honest with yourself.
[color=blue]
>
> Quit telling people you don't even know in an automotive forum to
> "prove" this animal is guilty. He's already been proven over and over
> again to be guilty.[/color]

By whom?
[color=blue]
> Even the most liberal appeals court in the country
> won't overturn his conviction.[/color]

Where exactly does ones' opinion come from herein?

I'm quite sure that, thusly challenged, you will now find some actual
article or evidence to back this up -- because I think we both know
that statement is based on the half-truths and fear-based baloney
you've read in this group.
[color=blue]
>
> If he's done anything worthy since murdering those innocent people then
> God will take note of that when they meet each other.[/color]

You must be in pretty good with God. How did you manage that? You
have proxy access to his Microsoft Outlook schedule book as well?

"Learning Richard" <learningrichard@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1134358160.185525.164080@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>
> badgolferman wrote:[color=green]
>> Learning Richard, 12/11/2005,4:51:48 PM, wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>> > He's been locked away for over 20 years. Now look. I know he's black
>> > and everything, but that doesn't mean he's responsible for all those
>> > murders.[/color]
>>
>> Richard is really the one who is sorry.[/color]
>
> Why? Is this just another little bit of your 12 Step Character
> Assassination? Man... the dissonance in your head must give you
> headaches and premature baldness.
>
> You should probably read the chapter on "Relapse and Recovery". Then
> maybe you should try it. If it don't kill ya, maybe when you come back
> you'll be ready to ... how do they say ... get honest with yourself.
>[color=green]
>>
>> Quit telling people you don't even know in an automotive forum to
>> "prove" this animal is guilty. He's already been proven over and over
>> again to be guilty.[/color]
>
> By whom?
>[/color]

At least two juries, and several appealate courts.


[color=blue][color=green]
>> Even the most liberal appeals court in the country
>> won't overturn his conviction.[/color]
>
> Where exactly does ones' opinion come from herein?
>
> I'm quite sure that, thusly challenged, you will now find some actual
> article or evidence to back this up -- because I think we both know
> that statement is based on the half-truths and fear-based baloney
> you've read in this group.
>[/color]

It's based on court records from the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals. Tookie
was found guilty by a jury of his peers, and the conviction has been upheld
on appeal. Several appeals.

Learning Richard, 12/11/2005,10:29:20 PM, wrote:
[color=blue]
> You should probably read the chapter on "Relapse and Recovery".[/color]

The only chapter existing with a name like that must have been written
by you.
[color=blue][color=green]
> > Quit telling people you don't even know in an automotive forum to
> > "prove" this animal is guilty. He's already been proven over and
> > over again to be guilty.[/color]
>
> By whom?[/color]

Are you daft? By prosecuters in the original trial and more
prosecuters in subsequent appeals.
[color=blue][color=green]
> > Even the most liberal appeals court in the country
> > won't overturn his conviction.[/color]
>
> Where exactly does ones' opinion come from herein?[/color]

From the fact that he has run out of appeals. Why can't you see past
your nose?
[color=blue]
> half-truths and fear-based baloney
> you've read in this group.[/color]

Almost all of which come directly from your posts.
[color=blue]
> You must be in pretty good with God. How did you manage that? You
> have proxy access to his Microsoft Outlook schedule book as well?[/color]

I didn't know God and Bill Gates had a deal going. I was always told
Bill Gates made a deal with the Devil.

--
"Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it."
~ Flannery O'Connor

badgolferman wrote:[color=blue]
> Learning Richard, 12/11/2005,10:29:20 PM, wrote:
>[color=green]
> > You should probably read the chapter on "Relapse and Recovery".[/color]
>
> The only chapter existing with a name like that must have been written
> by you.[/color]

Is that right? ;)
[color=blue]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> > > Quit telling people you don't even know in an automotive forum to
> > > "prove" this animal is guilty. He's already been proven over and
> > > over again to be guilty.[/color]
> >
> > By whom?[/color]
>
> Are you daft? By prosecuters in the original trial and more
> prosecuters in subsequent appeals.
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> > > Even the most liberal appeals court in the country
> > > won't overturn his conviction.[/color]
> >
> > Where exactly does ones' opinion come from herein?[/color]
>
> From the fact that he has run out of appeals. Why can't you see past
> your nose?
>[color=green]
> > half-truths and fear-based baloney
> > you've read in this group.[/color]
>
> Almost all of which come directly from your posts.
>[color=green]
> > You must be in pretty good with God. How did you manage that? You
> > have proxy access to his Microsoft Outlook schedule book as well?[/color]
>
> I didn't know God and Bill Gates had a deal going. I was always told
> Bill Gates made a deal with the Devil.[/color]

Sounds like you have God (and morality) all figured out.

Oh yeah -- the RNC runs its entire platform on Microsoft/Oracle, so
you're prolly right about the deal with the Devil part.

Jeff Strickland wrote:[color=blue]
> "Learning Richard" <learningrichard@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1134337907.952295.318900@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=green]
> >
> > Charles @ Kankakee wrote:[color=darkred]
> >> If Tookie is really sorry for what he did, why doesn't he disband the
> >> gang
> >> he started?[/color]
> >
> > You're dumb.
> >[color=darkred]
> >>
> >> He's not.[/color]
> >
> > He's on Death Row. I doubt that from there he's going to be able to
> > disband a bunch of punks who happen to take the name of the gang he
> > didn't even start.
> >[/color]
>
> He can't disband his own gang,[/color]

heheheh... man, you really are from the farm aren't you? You think a
bunch of gun-toting OG rock slingers in Baltimore are going to close
shop because some old man on death row told them to?
[color=blue]
> but he can influence children to not join.
> Yeah, right.[/color]

He can, and indeed, he has.
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> >> The Crypts and the associated gangs here in Chicago, are still
> >> killing as often as they can actually aim and hit . And of course, the[/color]
> >
> > He's been locked away for over 20 years. Now look. I know he's black
> > and everything, but that doesn't mean he's responsible for all those
> > murders.
> >[/color]
>
> He's directoy responsible for at least four murders.[/color]

prove it.
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> >> innocent bystanders that accidentally get in the way of bullets. . . .
> >>
> >> Let him pay for his crime. Two words all the liberals forget: Personal
> >> responsibility.[/color]
> >
> > Yeah. Something you know absolutely nothing about.
> >[/color]
>
> When you're not on Death Row, the odds of having to own up to personal
> reaponsibility to the extent that Tookie has to are very remote.[/color]

You mean state-sanctioned extermination? Last time a Western country
took that attitude was around what... 1930s? Oh yeah then there's
Kosovo.

"Learning Richard" <learningrichard@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1134360304.677966.22640@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>
> Jeff Strickland wrote:[color=green]
>> "Learning Richard" <learningrichard@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1134337907.952295.318900@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=darkred]
>> >
>> > Charles @ Kankakee wrote:
>> >> If Tookie is really sorry for what he did, why doesn't he disband the
>> >> gang
>> >> he started?
>> >
>> > You're dumb.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> He's not.
>> >
>> > He's on Death Row. I doubt that from there he's going to be able to
>> > disband a bunch of punks who happen to take the name of the gang he
>> > didn't even start.
>> >[/color]
>>
>> He can't disband his own gang,[/color]
>
> heheheh... man, you really are from the farm aren't you? You think a
> bunch of gun-toting OG rock slingers in Baltimore are going to close
> shop because some old man on death row told them to?
>[/color]

Frankly, it's about as likely as Kindergartners not joining a gang when they
grow up.

The absurdity is that while YOU don't think that teen agers will listen to
him, you do think that small children will.

The guy started one of the most violent street gangs to ever roam the
planet, and he killed 4 people in cold blood, and you want to give him
another chance.



[color=blue][color=green]
>> but he can influence children to not join.
>> Yeah, right.[/color]
>
> He can, and indeed, he has.
>[/color]

Bullshit. Just because he wrote a few books doesn't mean that anybody
decided to NOT join a gang as a result. If he has that kind of power, then
he should write a book to his cohorts and get them to stop.

The best we can do to stop these people is to put men like Tookie Williams
to death, give them the punishment they deserve in a very public way.





[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>> >> The Crypts and the associated gangs here in Chicago, are still
>> >> killing as often as they can actually aim and hit . And of course,
>> >> the
>> >
>> > He's been locked away for over 20 years. Now look. I know he's black
>> > and everything, but that doesn't mean he's responsible for all those
>> > murders.
>> >[/color]
>>
>> He's directoy responsible for at least four murders.[/color]
>
> prove it.
>[/color]

That's already been done. That is why he's on Death Row and has had all of
his previous appeals denied.




[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>> >> innocent bystanders that accidentally get in the way of bullets. . . .
>> >>
>> >> Let him pay for his crime. Two words all the liberals forget:
>> >> Personal
>> >> responsibility.
>> >
>> > Yeah. Something you know absolutely nothing about.
>> >[/color]
>>
>> When you're not on Death Row, the odds of having to own up to personal
>> reaponsibility to the extent that Tookie has to are very remote.[/color]
>
> You mean state-sanctioned extermination?[/color]

If that's what you want ot call it. I call it reasonable punishment. The
only problem I can see with the system is that it takes too long for justice
to be meted out.




Last time a Western country[color=blue]
> took that attitude was around what... 1930s? Oh yeah then there's
> Kosovo.
>[/color]

Kosovo, an East Bloc country is western?

Jeff Strickland wrote:[color=blue]
> "Learning Richard" <learningrichard@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1134360304.677966.22640@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=green]
> >
> > Jeff Strickland wrote:[color=darkred]
> >> "Learning Richard" <learningrichard@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:1134337907.952295.318900@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >>
> >> When you're not on Death Row, the odds of having to own up to personal
> >> reaponsibility to the extent that Tookie has to are very remote.[/color]
> >
> > You mean state-sanctioned extermination?[/color]
>
> If that's what you want ot call it. I call it reasonable punishment. The
> only problem I can see with the system is that it takes too long for justice
> to be meted out.
>
>
>
>[color=green]
> > Last time a Western country
> > took that attitude was around what... 1930s? Oh yeah then there's
> > Kosovo.
> >[/color]
>
> Kosovo, an East Bloc country is western?[/color]

Good point. With the EEU and all...

so yeah, the last time a Western country thought that state-sanctioned
extermination of its citizens was a Good Thing was around the
1930s-1940s.

"Learning Richard" <learningrichard@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1134361763.541318.44450@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>
> Jeff Strickland wrote:[color=green]
>> "Learning Richard" <learningrichard@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1134360304.677966.22640@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=darkred]
>> >
>> > Jeff Strickland wrote:
>> >> "Learning Richard" <learningrichard@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:1134337907.952295.318900@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> >>
>> >> When you're not on Death Row, the odds of having to own up to personal
>> >> reaponsibility to the extent that Tookie has to are very remote.
>> >
>> > You mean state-sanctioned extermination?[/color]
>>
>> If that's what you want ot call it. I call it reasonable punishment. The
>> only problem I can see with the system is that it takes too long for
>> justice
>> to be meted out.
>>
>>
>>
>>[color=darkred]
>> > Last time a Western country
>> > took that attitude was around what... 1930s? Oh yeah then there's
>> > Kosovo.
>> >[/color]
>>
>> Kosovo, an East Bloc country is western?[/color]
>
> Good point. With the EEU and all...
>
> so yeah, the last time a Western country thought that state-sanctioned
> extermination of its citizens was a Good Thing was around the
> 1930s-1940s.
>[/color]

So?

If they all jumped off a cliff, would you follow them? What fucking
difference does it make what they do? Our law is what we need to uphold or
change, not theirs. We have 650 prisoners on Death Row in California alone,
and Tookie will be the 12th to be executed since 1976 when the DP was
reinstated in this state.

That's close to 30 years, or less than one every three years, to execute 12
inmates. The average time they spend on Death Row exceeds the life span of
their victims by nearly double the age of the victim when they were killed.
If we killed one Death Row inmate every week until they were all gone, and
no new inmates were added to the system, it would take 12.5 years to empty
all of the cells. I do not advocate doing that, but it brings the picture
into perspective. Our justice system is far too lenient, and would-be
criminals have no fear of being caught and convicted because for many of
them, they will have it better inside than on the streets. And, we do
nothing to punish beyond putting them behind bars.

The main shortcoming of the Death Penalty is that it takes far too long to
carry the sentence out. Tookie did his deeds in the middle '70s, was tried
in the late '70s and early 80's. That's 25 years he's been on appeal, it
should be 5, tops.