1995 Toyota Celica has trouble starting...

I've gotten a ton of different answers from google and cartalk.com and
whatnot so I figure I'll try for another.

I have a 1995 Toyota Celica, it's got a little over 100k on it but it
runs decent otherwise. Occasionally, more recently (past few months)
it will not start. There is a clicking noise but it won't always turn
over. The accessories all work and such so I'm sure it's not the
battery.

It doesn't seem to be related to temperature, it's been cold in general
but it has been conder on some days and it starts right up.

For a while I thought it was related to the transmission since it
occasionally seemed to work when I shifted the car through the gears
with the clutch depressed or pressed the clutch a certain way. I'm
thinking this was mostly just coincidence (ie something to do while I
waited).

I took it in to Autozone to check the batterty and they suggested the
diode pattern was bad and the alternator needed replaced. Since the
battery always seems to work and be good I doubt this is the case
(though the alternator could still need replaced for other unrelated
reasons).

Online I've read suggestions ranging from replacing the spark plugs and
wires to replacing the starter to replacing the distributor.

My uncle suggested it might just be a loose connection between the
starter and the rest of the electrical system (I couldn't get the car
to recreate the problem for him).

It seems to happen more often if the car sits for a while.

The problem seems to have in "bursts", that is, it will do it a lot for
a few days then not at all for a week. Any help would be appreciated.
--
Ramen Junkie

lameazoid wrote:
[color=blue]
> I've gotten a ton of different answers from google and cartalk.com and
> whatnot so I figure I'll try for another.
>
> I have a 1995 Toyota Celica, it's got a little over 100k on it but it
> runs decent otherwise. Occasionally, more recently (past few months)
> it will not start. There is a clicking noise but it won't always turn
> over. The accessories all work and such so I'm sure it's not the
> battery.
>
> It doesn't seem to be related to temperature, it's been cold in general
> but it has been conder on some days and it starts right up.
>
> For a while I thought it was related to the transmission since it
> occasionally seemed to work when I shifted the car through the gears
> with the clutch depressed or pressed the clutch a certain way. I'm
> thinking this was mostly just coincidence (ie something to do while I
> waited).
>
> I took it in to Autozone to check the batterty and they suggested the
> diode pattern was bad and the alternator needed replaced. Since the
> battery always seems to work and be good I doubt this is the case
> (though the alternator could still need replaced for other unrelated
> reasons).
>
> Online I've read suggestions ranging from replacing the spark plugs and
> wires to replacing the starter to replacing the distributor.
>
> My uncle suggested it might just be a loose connection between the
> starter and the rest of the electrical system (I couldn't get the car
> to recreate the problem for him).
>
> It seems to happen more often if the car sits for a while.
>
> The problem seems to have in "bursts", that is, it will do it a lot for
> a few days then not at all for a week. Any help would be appreciated.[/color]

Sounds like worn starter contacts.

<lameazoid@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1135105583.847179.256570@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> I've gotten a ton of different answers from google and cartalk.com and
> whatnot so I figure I'll try for another.
>
> I have a 1995 Toyota Celica, it's got a little over 100k on it but it
> runs decent otherwise. Occasionally, more recently (past few months)
> it will not start. There is a clicking noise but it won't always turn
> over. The accessories all work and such so I'm sure it's not the
> battery.
>[/color]

How old is the battery? If the battery is more than five years old,
consider replacing it.
A battery can have enough power to operate accessories but not quite enough
to start the car. That said, I doubt if a bad battery is the cause of the
ocndition because bad batteries generally do not get better. That is, once
they have a problem, the problem tends to get worse.
[color=blue]
> It doesn't seem to be related to temperature, it's been cold in general
> but it has been conder on some days and it starts right up.
>
> For a while I thought it was related to the transmission since it
> occasionally seemed to work when I shifted the car through the gears
> with the clutch depressed or pressed the clutch a certain way. I'm
> thinking this was mostly just coincidence (ie something to do while I
> waited).
>[/color]

The only connection the starting system has to the transmission is the
clutch safety switch. Make sure there is nothing obstructing the clutch
pedal like a floor mat, then set the parking brake and look underneath at
the switch mounted up near where the clutch pedal pivots. Make sure that
when the clutch pedal is depressed, the plunger on the clutch safety switch
moves. If in doubt, you can unplug the switch and jump the wires - just be
sure that you depress the clutch pedal and have the transmission in neutral
or the car will lurch when you engage the starter.
[color=blue]
> I took it in to Autozone to check the batterty and they suggested the
> diode pattern was bad and the alternator needed replaced. Since the
> battery always seems to work and be good I doubt this is the case
> (though the alternator could still need replaced for other unrelated
> reasons).
>
> Online I've read suggestions ranging from replacing the spark plugs and
> wires to replacing the starter to replacing the distributor.[/color]

Spark plugs, wires, and distributor are unlikely to be the cause of an
intermittent no-start condition, especially if there are not driveability
problems associated with the no-start condition.[color=blue]
>
> My uncle suggested it might just be a loose connection between the
> starter and the rest of the electrical system (I couldn't get the car
> to recreate the problem for him).[/color]

Your uncle is a lot closer to giving you the correct advice than your other
sources.
[color=blue]
>
> It seems to happen more often if the car sits for a while.
>
> The problem seems to have in "bursts", that is, it will do it a lot for
> a few days then not at all for a week. Any help would be appreciated.
> --
> Ramen Junkie[/color]

The contacts in the starter relay are known to deteriorate over time. A
handy person can check contacts in the starter relay for signs or wear and
corrosion and replace them if necessary.
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply

<lameazoid@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1135105583.847179.256570@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> I've gotten a ton of different answers from google and cartalk.com and
> whatnot so I figure I'll try for another.
>
> I have a 1995 Toyota Celica, it's got a little over 100k on it but it
> runs decent otherwise. Occasionally, more recently (past few months)
> it will not start. There is a clicking noise but it won't always turn
> over. The accessories all work and such so I'm sure it's not the
> battery.
>
> It doesn't seem to be related to temperature, it's been cold in general
> but it has been conder on some days and it starts right up.
>
> For a while I thought it was related to the transmission since it
> occasionally seemed to work when I shifted the car through the gears
> with the clutch depressed or pressed the clutch a certain way. I'm
> thinking this was mostly just coincidence (ie something to do while I
> waited).
>
> I took it in to Autozone to check the batterty and they suggested the
> diode pattern was bad and the alternator needed replaced. Since the
> battery always seems to work and be good I doubt this is the case
> (though the alternator could still need replaced for other unrelated
> reasons).
>
> Online I've read suggestions ranging from replacing the spark plugs and
> wires to replacing the starter to replacing the distributor.
>
> My uncle suggested it might just be a loose connection between the
> starter and the rest of the electrical system (I couldn't get the car
> to recreate the problem for him).
>
> It seems to happen more often if the car sits for a while.
>
> The problem seems to have in "bursts", that is, it will do it a lot for
> a few days then not at all for a week. Any help would be appreciated.
> --
> Ramen Junkie[/color]

some cars have a clutch pedal interlock switch, so that the pedal must be
pressed to enable the starter.

if not then it sounds like a bad connection or a starter fault, check all
connections, both power and earth that are to do with the starter. if that
doesn't cure it, then when it next won't turn over give the starter motor a
firm tap with a solid object and try again, if that makes it go then you
need the starter motor repaired or replaced.

mrcheerful

Ray O wrote:[color=blue]
> <lameazoid@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1135105583.847179.256570@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> How old is the battery? If the battery is more than five years old,
> consider replacing it.[/color]

I've replaced the battery at least once in the last five years.
[color=blue][color=green]
> > For a while I thought it was related to the transmission since it
> > occasionally seemed to work when I shifted the car through the gears
> > with the clutch depressed or pressed the clutch a certain way. I'm
> > thinking this was mostly just coincidence (ie something to do while I
> > waited).
> >[/color]
>
> The only connection the starting system has to the transmission is the
> clutch safety switch. Make sure there is nothing obstructing the clutch
> pedal like a floor mat, then set the parking brake and look underneath at
> the switch mounted up near where the clutch pedal pivots. Make sure that
> when the clutch pedal is depressed, the plunger on the clutch safety switch
> moves. If in doubt, you can unplug the switch and jump the wires - just be
> sure that you depress the clutch pedal and have the transmission in neutral
> or the car will lurch when you engage the starter.[/color]

I'll check on this.
[color=blue][color=green]
> > My uncle suggested it might just be a loose connection between the
> > starter and the rest of the electrical system (I couldn't get the car
> > to recreate the problem for him).[/color]
>
> Your uncle is a lot closer to giving you the correct advice than your other
> sources.[/color]

He's been a mechanic for a long time. he probably could have told me
more except it was 8 o clock at night and freezing cold out int he
driveway.
[color=blue]
>
> The contacts in the starter relay are known to deteriorate over time. A
> handy person can check contacts in the starter relay for signs or wear and
> corrosion and replace them if necessary.[/color]

I'll look into this.

Thanks.
--
Ramen Junkie

"Ramen Junkie" <lameazoid@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1135111977.776727.313570@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> Ray O wrote:[color=green]
>> <lameazoid@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1135105583.847179.256570@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> How old is the battery? If the battery is more than five years old,
>> consider replacing it.[/color]
>
> I've replaced the battery at least once in the last five years.
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>> > For a while I thought it was related to the transmission since it
>> > occasionally seemed to work when I shifted the car through the gears
>> > with the clutch depressed or pressed the clutch a certain way. I'm
>> > thinking this was mostly just coincidence (ie something to do while I
>> > waited).
>> >[/color]
>>
>> The only connection the starting system has to the transmission is the
>> clutch safety switch. Make sure there is nothing obstructing the clutch
>> pedal like a floor mat, then set the parking brake and look underneath at
>> the switch mounted up near where the clutch pedal pivots. Make sure that
>> when the clutch pedal is depressed, the plunger on the clutch safety
>> switch
>> moves. If in doubt, you can unplug the switch and jump the wires - just
>> be
>> sure that you depress the clutch pedal and have the transmission in
>> neutral
>> or the car will lurch when you engage the starter.[/color]
>
> I'll check on this.
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>> > My uncle suggested it might just be a loose connection between the
>> > starter and the rest of the electrical system (I couldn't get the car
>> > to recreate the problem for him).[/color]
>>
>> Your uncle is a lot closer to giving you the correct advice than your
>> other
>> sources.[/color]
>
> He's been a mechanic for a long time. he probably could have told me
> more except it was 8 o clock at night and freezing cold out int he
> driveway.
>[color=green]
>>
>> The contacts in the starter relay are known to deteriorate over time. A
>> handy person can check contacts in the starter relay for signs or wear
>> and
>> corrosion and replace them if necessary.[/color]
>
> I'll look into this.
>
> Thanks.
> --
> Ramen Junkie
>[/color]

By the way, I responded in the order that you asked the questions, but when
diagnosing, start by checking the starter relay. Good luck! At least with
a manual transmission, you can push start.
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply

On 20 Dec 2005 11:06:23 -0800, [email]lameazoid@gmail.com[/email] wrote:
[color=blue]
>I've gotten a ton of different answers from google and cartalk.com and
>whatnot so I figure I'll try for another.
>
>I have a 1995 Toyota Celica, it's got a little over 100k on it but it
>runs decent otherwise. Occasionally, more recently (past few months)
>it will not start. There is a clicking noise but it won't always turn
>over. The accessories all work and such so I'm sure it's not the
>battery.[/color]

If the starter solenoid (on top of the starter) is giving a loud
CLICK! but the starter motor doesn't run, then you try once or twice
more and then it starts normally - 95% of the time it's the heavy
'power switch' contacts inside the solenoid are starting to go bad.

There is a stud with one contact where the outside end is where you
bolt the big battery cable on, a contact disc that makes the
connection, and a second short stud that connects to the power lead
going into the starter motor windings.

All three parts are available at a good Toyota dealer parts counter
(and if they don't stock them they are quickly ordered) and unless
things have gone up a LOT you'll get change back from a $20. But take
the dead starter in with you, because there are several different sets
for the different sizes of starters.

You can install a rebuilt starter that will have a new set of
contacts, but if that's all that is wrong you can DIY it cheap.
Rebuilding shops buy these piece parts in bulk, but they are usually
reluctant to sell them to you loose - they want to make the money on
the rebuild work.

They are simple to change - most of the work is disconnecting the
battery, getting the starter out and then putting it back in, and
reconnecting all the wiring.

--<< Bruce >>--

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

"mrcheerful
.." <nbkm57@hotmail.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>
><lameazoid@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1135105583.847179.256570@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=green]
>> I've gotten a ton of different answers from google and cartalk.com and
>> whatnot so I figure I'll try for another.
>>
>> I have a 1995 Toyota Celica, it's got a little over 100k on it but it
>> runs decent otherwise. Occasionally, more recently (past few months)
>> it will not start. There is a clicking noise but it won't always turn
>> over. The accessories all work and such so I'm sure it's not the
>> battery.
>>
>> It doesn't seem to be related to temperature, it's been cold in general
>> but it has been conder on some days and it starts right up.
>>
>> For a while I thought it was related to the transmission since it
>> occasionally seemed to work when I shifted the car through the gears
>> with the clutch depressed or pressed the clutch a certain way. I'm
>> thinking this was mostly just coincidence (ie something to do while I
>> waited).
>>
>> I took it in to Autozone to check the batterty and they suggested the
>> diode pattern was bad and the alternator needed replaced. Since the
>> battery always seems to work and be good I doubt this is the case
>> (though the alternator could still need replaced for other unrelated
>> reasons).
>>
>> Online I've read suggestions ranging from replacing the spark plugs and
>> wires to replacing the starter to replacing the distributor.
>>
>> My uncle suggested it might just be a loose connection between the
>> starter and the rest of the electrical system (I couldn't get the car
>> to recreate the problem for him).
>>
>> It seems to happen more often if the car sits for a while.
>>
>> The problem seems to have in "bursts", that is, it will do it a lot for
>> a few days then not at all for a week. Any help would be appreciated.
>> --
>> Ramen Junkie[/color]
>
>some cars have a clutch pedal interlock switch, so that the pedal must be
>pressed to enable the starter.
>
>if not then it sounds like a bad connection or a starter fault, check all
>connections, both power and earth that are to do with the starter. if that
>doesn't cure it, then when it next won't turn over give the starter motor a
>firm tap with a solid object and try again, if that makes it go then you
>need the starter motor repaired or replaced.
>
>mrcheerful
>[/color]
I think that Ray has it...this is quite a common fault, the
contacts in the starter relay (either internal to the starter or
an external unit) are very heavy and wear out often, when you try
to start you hear a click as the relay closes but you hear
nothing else because the heavy contacts in the relay haven't made
contact so the starter motor has no power...mind you, a poor
connection to the battery post or anywhere along the heavy cable
to the starter could also be the problem, but I'd bet on the
relay contacts myself... good luck and a very Merry Christmas!...
--

-Gord.
(use gordon in email)