OT: Diesel hybrids

Recently we have discussed hybrids and touched on the question of
whether diesel engines could usefully be applied to them. Today
I heard about a design which points one way to the future. (All
of this from memory. Excuse errors.)

Bus manufacturer Wrights of Northern Ireland is supplying six (6)
evaluation diesel hybrid single-deckers to London for evaluation.
They'll be tested against six (6) normal buses on the same route.

Broad stats: 1.9-litre diesel engine (as in GM's Vauxhall Astra)
runs continuously, driving an electric generator which charges 28
accumulators below the floor. (Inference: low centre of gravity
for the bus.) These batteries power an electric traction motor.
New bus currently costs GBP200K, compared with normal GBP120K.
Fuel saving is around 30%. There are major emissions reductions
(eg: NOx, particulates, carbon oxides). One driver reported it
pleasantly quiet but otherwise operates much like a normal bus.
--
Andrew Stephenson

In article <1139367955snz@deltrak.demon.co.uk>,
[email]ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk[/email] (Andrew Stephenson) wrote:
[color=blue]
> Recently we have discussed hybrids and touched on the question of
> whether diesel engines could usefully be applied to them. Today
> I heard about a design which points one way to the future. (All
> of this from memory. Excuse errors.)
>
> Bus manufacturer Wrights of Northern Ireland is supplying six (6)
> evaluation diesel hybrid single-deckers to London for evaluation.
> They'll be tested against six (6) normal buses on the same route.
>
> Broad stats: 1.9-litre diesel engine (as in GM's Vauxhall Astra)
> runs continuously, driving an electric generator which charges 28
> accumulators below the floor. (Inference: low centre of gravity
> for the bus.) These batteries power an electric traction motor.
> New bus currently costs GBP200K, compared with normal GBP120K.
> Fuel saving is around 30%. There are major emissions reductions
> (eg: NOx, particulates, carbon oxides). One driver reported it
> pleasantly quiet but otherwise operates much like a normal bus.[/color]

Do you have a link to this story.

I was told that Toyota is coming with a diesel hybrid truck.
--
"Welcome to President Clinton, Mrs. Clinton, and my fellow astronauts."

Al Gore

In article <relaxand-98F478.03372008022006@news-rdr-01.rdc-kc.rr.com>
[email]relaxand@smeltherose.com[/email] "The Benevolent dbu" writes:
[color=blue]
> In article <1139367955snz@deltrak.demon.co.uk>,
> [email]ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk[/email] (Andrew Stephenson) wrote:
>[color=green]
> > Recently we have discussed hybrids and touched on the question of
> > whether diesel engines could usefully be applied to them. Today
> > I heard about a design which points one way to the future. (All
> > of this from memory. Excuse errors.)
> >
> > [...][/color][/color]
[color=blue]
> Do you have a link to this story.[/color]

No. It was a BBC-tv item. But I gather Wright are a biggish UK
bus maker. Google for them: maybe try keys "Wright", "bus" and
"northern ireland".
[color=blue]
> I was told that Toyota is coming with a diesel hybrid truck.[/color]

Sounds likely but I have no info.
--
Andrew Stephenson

In article <1139411071snz@deltrak.demon.co.uk>,
[email]ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk[/email] (Andrew Stephenson) wrote:
[color=blue]
> In article <relaxand-98F478.03372008022006@news-rdr-01.rdc-kc.rr.com>
> [email]relaxand@smeltherose.com[/email] "The Benevolent dbu" writes:
>[color=green]
> > In article <1139367955snz@deltrak.demon.co.uk>,
> > [email]ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk[/email] (Andrew Stephenson) wrote:
> >[color=darkred]
> > > Recently we have discussed hybrids and touched on the question of
> > > whether diesel engines could usefully be applied to them. Today
> > > I heard about a design which points one way to the future. (All
> > > of this from memory. Excuse errors.)
> > >
> > > [...][/color][/color]
>[color=green]
> > Do you have a link to this story.[/color]
>
> No. It was a BBC-tv item. But I gather Wright are a biggish UK
> bus maker. Google for them: maybe try keys "Wright", "bus" and
> "northern ireland".
>[color=green]
> > I was told that Toyota is coming with a diesel hybrid truck.[/color]
>
> Sounds likely but I have no info.[/color]

OK.

Toyota is supposed to announce a new pickup truck in Chicago soon. I
wonder if it will be a diesel hybrid.
--
"Welcome to President Clinton, Mrs. Clinton, and my fellow astronauts."

Al Gore

"The Benevolent dbu" <relaxand@smeltherose.com> wrote in message
news:relaxand-CA15DA.15531908022006@news-rdr-01.rdc-kc.rr.com...[color=blue]
> In article <1139411071snz@deltrak.demon.co.uk>,
> [email]ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk[/email] (Andrew Stephenson) wrote:
>[color=green]
>> In article <relaxand-98F478.03372008022006@news-rdr-01.rdc-kc.rr.com>
>> [email]relaxand@smeltherose.com[/email] "The Benevolent dbu" writes:
>>[color=darkred]
>> > In article <1139367955snz@deltrak.demon.co.uk>,
>> > [email]ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk[/email] (Andrew Stephenson) wrote:
>> >
>> > > Recently we have discussed hybrids and touched on the question of
>> > > whether diesel engines could usefully be applied to them. Today
>> > > I heard about a design which points one way to the future. (All
>> > > of this from memory. Excuse errors.)
>> > >
>> > > [...][/color]
>>[color=darkred]
>> > Do you have a link to this story.[/color]
>>
>> No. It was a BBC-tv item. But I gather Wright are a biggish UK
>> bus maker. Google for them: maybe try keys "Wright", "bus" and
>> "northern ireland".
>>[color=darkred]
>> > I was told that Toyota is coming with a diesel hybrid truck.[/color]
>>
>> Sounds likely but I have no info.[/color]
>
> OK.
>
> Toyota is supposed to announce a new pickup truck in Chicago soon. I
> wonder if it will be a diesel hybrid.
> --[/color]

The Chicago Auto Show comes to town this weekend, and the 2007 Tundra will
be introduced on Thursday.

Thanks to problems with consumer diesels by various makers in the 1970's,
diesels have a bad rap in the U.S. There will have to be a general consumer
re-education before diesels are widely accepted as a viable passenger car
option in the U.S. AFAIK, only German makers offer a passenger car diesels
for sale in the U.S., even though Japanese makers offer diesel passenger car
engine elsewhere in the world. My guess is that a consumer diesel hybrid
would be introduced in Europe or Asia before it is introduced in the U.S.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

In article <7c905$43ea77f9$44a4a10d$3783@msgid.meganewsservers.com>,
"Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOTcomn> wrote:
[color=blue]
> "The Benevolent dbu" <relaxand@smeltherose.com> wrote in message
> news:relaxand-CA15DA.15531908022006@news-rdr-01.rdc-kc.rr.com...[color=green]
> > In article <1139411071snz@deltrak.demon.co.uk>,
> > [email]ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk[/email] (Andrew Stephenson) wrote:
> >[color=darkred]
> >> In article <relaxand-98F478.03372008022006@news-rdr-01.rdc-kc.rr.com>
> >> [email]relaxand@smeltherose.com[/email] "The Benevolent dbu" writes:
> >>
> >> > In article <1139367955snz@deltrak.demon.co.uk>,
> >> > [email]ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk[/email] (Andrew Stephenson) wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Recently we have discussed hybrids and touched on the question of
> >> > > whether diesel engines could usefully be applied to them. Today
> >> > > I heard about a design which points one way to the future. (All
> >> > > of this from memory. Excuse errors.)
> >> > >
> >> > > [...]
> >>
> >> > Do you have a link to this story.
> >>
> >> No. It was a BBC-tv item. But I gather Wright are a biggish UK
> >> bus maker. Google for them: maybe try keys "Wright", "bus" and
> >> "northern ireland".
> >>
> >> > I was told that Toyota is coming with a diesel hybrid truck.
> >>
> >> Sounds likely but I have no info.[/color]
> >
> > OK.
> >
> > Toyota is supposed to announce a new pickup truck in Chicago soon. I
> > wonder if it will be a diesel hybrid.
> > --[/color]
>
> The Chicago Auto Show comes to town this weekend, and the 2007 Tundra will
> be introduced on Thursday.
>
> Thanks to problems with consumer diesels by various makers in the 1970's,
> diesels have a bad rap in the U.S. There will have to be a general consumer
> re-education before diesels are widely accepted as a viable passenger car
> option in the U.S. AFAIK, only German makers offer a passenger car diesels
> for sale in the U.S., even though Japanese makers offer diesel passenger car
> engine elsewhere in the world. My guess is that a consumer diesel hybrid
> would be introduced in Europe or Asia before it is introduced in the U.S.[/color]

A diesel hybrid would be good in my mind. I remember the VW diesel,
(not a hybrid), 50 MPG. I also like the trains, LOL. I wonder, if it
would be likely there could be diesel hybrid 18 wheelers?

Let's hope we get them back.
--
"Welcome to President Clinton, Mrs. Clinton, and my fellow astronauts."

Al Gore

"The Benevolent dbu" <relaxand@smeltherose.com> wrote in message
news:relaxand-877C03.17114808022006@news-rdr-01.rdc-kc.rr.com...


<snipped>
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>> > Toyota is supposed to announce a new pickup truck in Chicago soon. I
>> > wonder if it will be a diesel hybrid.
>> > --[/color]
>>
>> The Chicago Auto Show comes to town this weekend, and the 2007 Tundra
>> will
>> be introduced on Thursday.
>>
>> Thanks to problems with consumer diesels by various makers in the 1970's,
>> diesels have a bad rap in the U.S. There will have to be a general
>> consumer
>> re-education before diesels are widely accepted as a viable passenger car
>> option in the U.S. AFAIK, only German makers offer a passenger car
>> diesels
>> for sale in the U.S., even though Japanese makers offer diesel passenger
>> car
>> engine elsewhere in the world. My guess is that a consumer diesel hybrid
>> would be introduced in Europe or Asia before it is introduced in the
>> U.S.[/color]
>
> A diesel hybrid would be good in my mind. I remember the VW diesel,
> (not a hybrid), 50 MPG. I also like the trains, LOL. I wonder, if it
> would be likely there could be diesel hybrid 18 wheelers?
>
> Let's hope we get them back.
> --[/color]

If VW's TDI can get 50 MPG, it seems logical that a hybrid could do even
better.

The challenge to producing a ddiesel hybrid 18 wheeler (tractor-trailer) is
weight. The amount of cargo tractor trailers can carry is often limited by
gross vehicle weight. In other words, the trucks are capable of carrying
more weight than is legal on many roads. The batteries needed to acceptably
power a tractor trailer would probably reduce the vehicle's payload too much
to carry anything but really light loads like feathers or bread.

BTW, I believe that the term "18 wheeler" is going to become one of those
anachronistic terms like "dialing" a phone number or "ring" tone. Single
wide tires are gradually replacing dual tires for improved fuel efficiency
at lower cost so an 18 wheeler will become a 10 wheeler.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

On Wed, 8 Feb 2006 16:59:09 -0600, "Ray O"
<rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOTcomn> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Thanks to problems with consumer diesels by various makers in the 1970's,
>diesels have a bad rap in the U.S. There will have to be a general consumer
>re-education before diesels are widely accepted as a viable passenger car
>option in the U.S. AFAIK, only German makers offer a passenger car diesels
>for sale in the U.S., even though Japanese makers offer diesel passenger car
>engine elsewhere in the world. My guess is that a consumer diesel hybrid
>would be introduced in Europe or Asia before it is introduced in the U.S.[/color]

There were several Toyota diesel pickups around here. Seemed to
perform well. Main gripes were clatter, poor acceleration and the
diesel smell.
The Isuzu diesel was quite popular as a commercial work truck also.
Damn near impossible to buy one as "They Who Have" tend to hang on to
the trucks until some bozo runs over them.
--
Mr.E

<Mr.E@totally.invalid> wrote in message
news:ck2lu1ppvg80uq2vjsrld6ib0s4l7grfb0@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> On Wed, 8 Feb 2006 16:59:09 -0600, "Ray O"
> <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOTcomn> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>Thanks to problems with consumer diesels by various makers in the 1970's,
>>diesels have a bad rap in the U.S. There will have to be a general
>>consumer
>>re-education before diesels are widely accepted as a viable passenger car
>>option in the U.S. AFAIK, only German makers offer a passenger car
>>diesels
>>for sale in the U.S., even though Japanese makers offer diesel passenger
>>car
>>engine elsewhere in the world. My guess is that a consumer diesel hybrid
>>would be introduced in Europe or Asia before it is introduced in the U.S.[/color]
>
> There were several Toyota diesel pickups around here. Seemed to
> perform well. Main gripes were clatter, poor acceleration and the
> diesel smell.
> The Isuzu diesel was quite popular as a commercial work truck also.
> Damn near impossible to buy one as "They Who Have" tend to hang on to
> the trucks until some bozo runs over them.
> --
> Mr.E[/color]

Toyota sold diesel pickups, Corollas, and Camrys in the U.S. and also diesel
Land Cruisers in Canada. The Camry was a turbo-diesel, available only with
a 5-speed.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

In article <44570$43ea8bc2$44a4a10d$4578@msgid.meganewsservers.com>,
"Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOTcomn> wrote:
[color=blue]
> "The Benevolent dbu" <relaxand@smeltherose.com> wrote in message
> news:relaxand-877C03.17114808022006@news-rdr-01.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
>
> <snipped>
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> >> > Toyota is supposed to announce a new pickup truck in Chicago soon. I
> >> > wonder if it will be a diesel hybrid.
> >> > --
> >>
> >> The Chicago Auto Show comes to town this weekend, and the 2007 Tundra
> >> will
> >> be introduced on Thursday.
> >>
> >> Thanks to problems with consumer diesels by various makers in the 1970's,
> >> diesels have a bad rap in the U.S. There will have to be a general
> >> consumer
> >> re-education before diesels are widely accepted as a viable passenger car
> >> option in the U.S. AFAIK, only German makers offer a passenger car
> >> diesels
> >> for sale in the U.S., even though Japanese makers offer diesel passenger
> >> car
> >> engine elsewhere in the world. My guess is that a consumer diesel hybrid
> >> would be introduced in Europe or Asia before it is introduced in the
> >> U.S.[/color]
> >
> > A diesel hybrid would be good in my mind. I remember the VW diesel,
> > (not a hybrid), 50 MPG. I also like the trains, LOL. I wonder, if it
> > would be likely there could be diesel hybrid 18 wheelers?
> >
> > Let's hope we get them back.
> > --[/color]
>
> If VW's TDI can get 50 MPG, it seems logical that a hybrid could do even
> better.
>
> The challenge to producing a ddiesel hybrid 18 wheeler (tractor-trailer) is
> weight. The amount of cargo tractor trailers can carry is often limited by
> gross vehicle weight. In other words, the trucks are capable of carrying
> more weight than is legal on many roads. The batteries needed to acceptably
> power a tractor trailer would probably reduce the vehicle's payload too much
> to carry anything but really light loads like feathers or bread.
>
> BTW, I believe that the term "18 wheeler" is going to become one of those
> anachronistic terms like "dialing" a phone number or "ring" tone. Single
> wide tires are gradually replacing dual tires for improved fuel efficiency
> at lower cost so an 18 wheeler will become a 10 wheeler.[/color]

Batteries=weight, but perhaps in future batteries the weight will come
down, however I see your point. Why not then have a 18 wheeler
(tractor-trailer) set up like the locomotives on rail, diesel-motor
generator or won 't that work? I don't believe they use batteries or do
they? One thing for sure the hybrid vehicles electrical/electronic
systems are a complicated one to say the least, with 600 volt motors
ect. I wonder about the long term reliability in harsh climates.
--
"Welcome to President Clinton, Mrs. Clinton, and my fellow astronauts."

Al Gore

DETROIT (Jan. 10, 2005) - The Opel Astra diesel front-wheel drive
concept vehicle, equipped with a two-mode full hybrid and the 1.7-liter
CDTI engine, delivers up to 25 percent improved fuel economy while
maintaining fun-to-drive performance.

The concept vehicle is based on the production-version Opel Astra GTC
and was built at GM's European International Technical Development
Center in Russelsheim , Germany .

How Two-mode Full Hybrids work

GM's two-mode full hybrid system has been established as the starting
point for a GM-DaimlerChrysler collaboration.

The unique architecture can be scaled to fit FWD, RWD and AWD vehicles
and adapted to both gasoline and diesel engines. Two electronically
controlled electric motors act on a series of gears to create an
infinitely variable drive system. The system fits within the space of a
conventional automatic transmission. A battery pack supplies power to
the electric motors and also allows for full-electric propulsion.

As a packaging study, the Astra Diesel Hybrid demonstrates how hybrid
components can be integrated into a compact car without compromising
passenger comfort and the vehicle's utility. The nickel-metal-hydride
battery pack is located in the spare tire well, along with cooling
fans. The battery was developed with specialist Varta.

"We decided to use a diesel-powered car as a starting point because
in the mid-term, we don't see a demand for gasoline hybrids in Europe
," said Hans H. Demant, GM's European engineering vice president
and Opel's managing director. "Our state-of-the-art CDTI engines
already deliver impressive dynamics and low fuel consumption. The Astra
concept demonstrates that fuel efficiency and vehicle dynamics can be
significantly improved by hybrid technology."

The Astra Diesel Hybrid is propelled by a powerful 92-kw
(125-horsepower) 1.7-liter CDTI engine with a maintenance-free
particulate filter and by two electric motors, rated at 30 kw and 40
kw, respectively. Depending on the driving conditions, the electric
motors will deliver additional power for the diesel engine or will
propel the Astra with full electric power. A sophisticated controller
determines the propulsion mode. The electric motors boost the already
strong performance of the turbo-diesel engine, delivering a feeling of
performance that would otherwise be achieved only with a
larger-displacement engine. Acceleration performance of less than 8
seconds from 0-100 kph (62 mph) is expected with the Astra Diesel
Hybrid concept.

With fuel consumption below 4-liters/100km (MVEG mix), the Astra Diesel
Hybrid is projected to be 25 percent more fuel-efficient than
comparable diesel models. This is achieved through the hybrid
system's operating parameters, which include full engine stop at idle
and full electric propulsion at launch. The electric motors also are
used for deceleration, where kinetic energy is recuperated and stored
in the battery. During braking and coasting, the electric motors work
as generators to charge the battery pack.

As with other vehicles using the two-mode full hybrid technology, the
Astra Diesel Hybrid incorporates two separate on-board electrical
systems. The drive system uses a high-voltage system, while the other
converts electricity to operate a 12-volt system that powers safety and
convenience items such as the lights, HVAC and the audio system.From
the outside, the Astra Diesel Hybrid, with its unique panoramic glass
roof, doesn't look much different from a production-version Astra
GTC. Inside, however, the tachometer in the gauge cluster has been
replaced by instruments that provide feedback on the operation of the
hybrid propulsion system, such as traction provided by the electric
motors, traction from the diesel engine, or both. Another gauge
displays the battery's charge level. Also, a video animation in the
graphic information display located in the center console depicts the
current propulsion state of the vehicle when it's driving.

The two-mode full hybrid technology can provide a significant reduction
in fuel consumption helping to meet ever-stringent carbon-dioxide
emission targets. Its scalability enables the technology to be applied
to markets around the world.

TECHNICAL DATA: Opel Astra Diesel Hybrid Concept Vehicle

Vehicle type:

front-wheel-drive, five-passenger concept vehicle based on the Opel
Astra GTC

Dimensions (mm / in):

length: 4290 / 169
width: 1729 / 68
height: 1433 / 56.4

Diesel engine:

1.7L CDTI with 92-kw/125-hp and 280-Nm/206 lb-ft of torque; with
maintenance-free particulate filter

Electric motors: two:

30-kw and 40-kw; integrated within transmission case

Two-mode Full Hybrid:

electronically controlled electric variable with mechanical lock-up

Battery :

type: 1.3-kw NiMH (Varta)
weight: 35 kg / 77 lb
location: spare tire compartment

Performance:

0-100 kph / 62 mph = less than 8 seconds

Fuel consumption:

less than 4 liter diesel / 100 km in the MVEG cycle

"Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOTcomn> wrote in message
news:44570$43ea8bc2$44a4a10d$4578@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=blue]
>
> "The Benevolent dbu" <relaxand@smeltherose.com> wrote in message
> news:relaxand-877C03.17114808022006@news-rdr-01.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
>
> <snipped>
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> > Toyota is supposed to announce a new pickup truck in Chicago soon. I
>>> > wonder if it will be a diesel hybrid.
>>> > --
>>>
>>> The Chicago Auto Show comes to town this weekend, and the 2007 Tundra
>>> will
>>> be introduced on Thursday.
>>>
>>> Thanks to problems with consumer diesels by various makers in the
>>> 1970's,
>>> diesels have a bad rap in the U.S. There will have to be a general
>>> consumer
>>> re-education before diesels are widely accepted as a viable passenger
>>> car
>>> option in the U.S. AFAIK, only German makers offer a passenger car
>>> diesels
>>> for sale in the U.S., even though Japanese makers offer diesel passenger
>>> car
>>> engine elsewhere in the world. My guess is that a consumer diesel
>>> hybrid
>>> would be introduced in Europe or Asia before it is introduced in the
>>> U.S.[/color]
>>
>> A diesel hybrid would be good in my mind. I remember the VW diesel,
>> (not a hybrid), 50 MPG. I also like the trains, LOL. I wonder, if it
>> would be likely there could be diesel hybrid 18 wheelers?
>>
>> Let's hope we get them back.
>> --[/color]
>
> If VW's TDI can get 50 MPG, it seems logical that a hybrid could do even
> better.
>
> The challenge to producing a ddiesel hybrid 18 wheeler (tractor-trailer)
> is weight. The amount of cargo tractor trailers can carry is often
> limited by gross vehicle weight. In other words, the trucks are capable
> of carrying more weight than is legal on many roads. The batteries needed
> to acceptably power a tractor trailer would probably reduce the vehicle's
> payload too much to carry anything but really light loads like feathers or
> bread.
>
> BTW, I believe that the term "18 wheeler" is going to become one of those
> anachronistic terms like "dialing" a phone number or "ring" tone. Single
> wide tires are gradually replacing dual tires for improved fuel efficiency
> at lower cost so an 18 wheeler will become a 10 wheeler.
> --
>
> Ray O
> (correct punctuation to reply)
>
>[/color]

Yes, it probably will. And the 42 wheelers I see in Ontario will become
22-wheelers? (11 axles, I'd sure hate to try turning that thing.)

Charles of Schaumburg

"The Benevolent dbu" <relaxand@smeltherose.com> wrote in message
news:relaxand-1112BC.03165209022006@news-rdr-01.rdc-kc.rr.com...

<snipped>
[color=blue][color=green]
>> The challenge to producing a ddiesel hybrid 18 wheeler (tractor-trailer)
>> is
>> weight. The amount of cargo tractor trailers can carry is often limited
>> by
>> gross vehicle weight. In other words, the trucks are capable of carrying
>> more weight than is legal on many roads. The batteries needed to
>> acceptably
>> power a tractor trailer would probably reduce the vehicle's payload too
>> much
>> to carry anything but really light loads like feathers or bread.
>>
>> BTW, I believe that the term "18 wheeler" is going to become one of those
>> anachronistic terms like "dialing" a phone number or "ring" tone. Single
>> wide tires are gradually replacing dual tires for improved fuel
>> efficiency
>> at lower cost so an 18 wheeler will become a 10 wheeler.[/color]
>
> Batteries=weight, but perhaps in future batteries the weight will come
> down, however I see your point. Why not then have a 18 wheeler
> (tractor-trailer) set up like the locomotives on rail, diesel-motor
> generator or won 't that work? I don't believe they use batteries or do .
> they? One thing for sure the hybrid vehicles electrical/electronic
> systems are a complicated one to say the least, with 600 volt motors
> ect. I wonder about the long term reliability in harsh climates.
> --[/color]

I'm sure future batteries will be lighter than those available today so
perhaps big truck hybrid technology will become economically feasible.

I don't know if current diesel-electric locomotives use batteries or not. I
saw an article about a hybrid diesel-electric locomotive with batteries so
I'm guessing that the current technology does not have a means to store
significant amounts of electricity. The big advantage of electric motors,
besides being clean, is that they produce significant torque, which help
when starting from a dead stop. A diesel hybrid would probably be better
suited to a truck that does a lot of stop-and-go than to one that is used
primarily for over the road use.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

"n5hsr" <n5hsr@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:9cGdnSWXIrvftnbeRVn-vQ@comcast.com...

<snipped>
[color=blue][color=green]
>> BTW, I believe that the term "18 wheeler" is going to become one of those
>> anachronistic terms like "dialing" a phone number or "ring" tone. Single
>> wide tires are gradually replacing dual tires for improved fuel
>> efficiency at lower cost so an 18 wheeler will become a 10 wheeler.
>> --
>>
>> Ray O
>> (correct punctuation to reply)
>>
>>[/color]
>
> Yes, it probably will. And the 42 wheelers I see in Ontario will become
> 22-wheelers? (11 axles, I'd sure hate to try turning that thing.)
>
> Charles of Schaumburg[/color]

I bet triples will be a prime candidate for those new single wide tires.
I've always wondered how those triples manage to maneuver, even if just on
highways.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

In article <7b04b$43eb78c4$44a4a10d$17179@msgid.meganewsservers.com>
rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOTcomn "Ray O" writes:
[color=blue]
> [...] The big advantage of electric motors, besides being
> clean, is that they produce significant torque, which help when
> starting from a dead stop. A diesel hybrid would probably be
> better suited to a truck that does a lot of stop-and-go than to
> one that is used primarily for over the road use.[/color]

Potentially there are other advantages of using electric traction
in a lorry (US:truck<g>).

Each wheel assembly (think of it as lump, regardless of number of
wheels) can have a separate motor with its own controller. This
should cut production costs (make many identical ones) and repair
costs (unplug and unbolt a faulty assembly, then drop in a new
one -- thus also reducing down-time).

This does away with bulky, heavy, mechanically lossy and costly
gearbox, transmission shafts and differential gearing. Braking
can also be done in part by regeneration, conserving energy and
taking some of the load off conventional brakes, maybe extending
their life (and making them smaller, though I'd not bet on that).

Another advantage suggests itself: if each trailer were built as
a unit controlling as many of its own functions as possible (eg:
power storage cells, motors+controllers, brakes), then it could
be easier, quicker (maybe safer) to link multiples of the unit,
trailing behind the one cab, where the electric generator would
be along with the driver and his/her stuff.

All of the above contains much back-of-a-braincell guesswork.
--
Andrew Stephenson