Toyota and USB ports

How come cars don't have a USB port so that we could plug our computers into
them and use the information to diagnose problems? Seems to me that would
be easier than using special computers to read the cars error codes. Anyone
know?

--
Instead of raising your voice, reinforce your argument!

In article <8sFNf.354$H7.98@bignews3.bellsouth.net>
[email]TomMacon@member.org[/email] "Tom in Macon" writes:
[color=blue]
> How come cars don't have a USB port so that we could plug our
> computers into them and use the information to diagnose
> problems? Seems to me that would be easier than using special
> computers to read the cars error codes. Anyone know?[/color]

Maybe They haven't thought of it yet. Maybe They realise there's
a minefield out there, called "Interfacing" (or similar).

The question is, what signals should the car be ready to exchange
with whatever you plug into that USB port? Do you want to be
stuck with using (spit) Windows and risk not being able to talk
to your car six months later? Or are you willing to keep an old
computer, just so you can talk to your car?

The closest thing to a lasting standard which I can devise would
let you plug in a USB MSD Mass Storage Device -- examples being
flash memory sticks, camera flash cards mounted in USB adapters,
USB hard drives.

The MSD would need to be formatted in some universally understood
basic format: say, FAT16. Alternative formats could be accepted.
When the car's system detects that the MSD has been plugged into
the USB port, it looks for a file with a special name: DIAGNOSE.
The car takes that as permission to over-write that file with an
ASCII readout of the diagnostics. That file can then be read by
pretty much any computer made during the past forty years or so,
and looks set to be readable into a pretty far future (at least
until They abandon USB and/or ASCII).

If the special file is not found, the car's entertainment system
steps in and tries to find *.MP3 and *.WAV files, which it then
lists on the display and allows you to select for playing.

Could that work?
--
Andrew Stephenson

Toyota doesn't want people playing around?

You have to think of it this way. Toyota is the second largest manufacturer
of autos in the world.
Now, they make a port that ANY idiot can plug into and change things, and
now cars are blowing up, going
too fast, blowing engines, and worse case causing accidents.

Now, do you think the idiot that pushed his car beyond the limits is going
to say, "Gee, I guess I shouldn't have
done that. My bad."?

NOOOOOOOOOOO They're going to say, "Why did Toyota PUT that port there so I
could go in with my computer and some third-rate software and LET me blow my
car up?!?! I need a LAWYER!!!"

There are people that had modified the ports on a Prius and plugged it into
a Libretto, but needless to say this has voided the warranty.

I wonder if Toyota can sue THEM for altering the 'Operating System'. Could
come under Reverse Engineering, you know...

"Tom in Macon" <TomMacon@member.org> wrote in message
news:8sFNf.354$H7.98@bignews3.bellsouth.net...[color=blue]
> How come cars don't have a USB port so that we could plug our computers
> into them and use the information to diagnose problems? Seems to me that
> would be easier than using special computers to read the cars error codes.
> Anyone know?
>
> --
> Instead of raising your voice, reinforce your argument!
>[/color]

"Tom in Macon" <TomMacon@member.org> wrote in message
news:8sFNf.354$H7.98@bignews3.bellsouth.net...[color=blue]
> How come cars don't have a USB port so that we could plug our computers[/color]
into[color=blue]
> them and use the information to diagnose problems? Seems to me that would
> be easier than using special computers to read the cars error codes.[/color]
Anyone[color=blue]
> know?
> Instead of raising your voice, reinforce your argument![/color]

That would be a nice feature.

It would be helpful for GPS nav systems that aren't integrated into the car.
Getting real-time speed which, with compass bearing, would be helpful in
keeping track of vehicle position when the GPS satellites are obscured by
tunnels or buildings.

A USB port would be useful for access to the vehicle sound system.

A USB port would be useful for real-time data logging so you can see how
fast the kids have been driving.


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DH wrote:[color=blue]
> "Tom in Macon" <TomMacon@member.org> wrote in message
> news:8sFNf.354$H7.98@bignews3.bellsouth.net...[color=green]
> > How come cars don't have a USB port so that we could plug our computers[/color]
> into[color=green]
> > them and use the information to diagnose problems? Seems to me that would
> > be easier than using special computers to read the cars error codes.[/color]
> Anyone[color=green]
> > know?
> > Instead of raising your voice, reinforce your argument![/color]
>
> That would be a nice feature.
>
> It would be helpful for GPS nav systems that aren't integrated into the car.
> Getting real-time speed which, with compass bearing, would be helpful in
> keeping track of vehicle position when the GPS satellites are obscured by
> tunnels or buildings.
>
> A USB port would be useful for access to the vehicle sound system.
>
> A USB port would be useful for real-time data logging so you can see how
> fast the kids have been driving.
>
>
> *** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ***
> *** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from [url]http://www.SecureIX.com[/url] ***[/color]

All these things are possible right now - if you buy autocomputers or
special purpose gadgets. If toyota provides these as standard equipment
on a camry, the car will cost thousands of dollas more. A standard
driver doesn't need these gadgets.

I recently rented a Mazda (RX6?) which is auto tranny and on the dash
there is a indicator for which gear the car is currently driving in. I
just don't understand why that indicator is required especially when
there is no control the driver has on gear selection when driving.

<vktechmails@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1141328220.589942.187540@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>
> DH wrote:[color=green]
> > "Tom in Macon" <TomMacon@member.org> wrote in message
> > news:8sFNf.354$H7.98@bignews3.bellsouth.net...[color=darkred]
> > > How come cars don't have a USB port so that we could plug our[/color][/color][/color]
computers[color=blue][color=green]
> > into[color=darkred]
> > > them and use the information to diagnose problems? Seems to me that[/color][/color][/color]
would[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> > > be easier than using special computers to read the cars error codes.[/color]
> > Anyone[color=darkred]
> > > know?
> > > Instead of raising your voice, reinforce your argument![/color]
> >
> > That would be a nice feature.
> >
> > It would be helpful for GPS nav systems that aren't integrated into the[/color][/color]
car.[color=blue][color=green]
> > Getting real-time speed which, with compass bearing, would be helpful in
> > keeping track of vehicle position when the GPS satellites are obscured[/color][/color]
by[color=blue][color=green]
> > tunnels or buildings.
> >
> > A USB port would be useful for access to the vehicle sound system.
> >
> > A USB port would be useful for real-time data logging so you can see how
> > fast the kids have been driving.
> >
> >
> > *** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ***
> > *** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from[/color][/color]
[url]http://www.SecureIX.com[/url] ***[color=blue]
>
> All these things are possible right now - if you buy autocomputers or
> special purpose gadgets. If toyota provides these as standard equipment
> on a camry, the car will cost thousands of dollas more. A standard
> driver doesn't need these gadgets.
>
> I recently rented a Mazda (RX6?) which is auto tranny and on the dash
> there is a indicator for which gear the car is currently driving in. I
> just don't understand why that indicator is required especially when
> there is no control the driver has on gear selection when driving.
>[/color]

But that would be the beauty of making the car USB-accessible. One
interface and a simple matter of programming to have the car communicate
with other devices.


*** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ***
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Tom in Macon, 3/2/2006, 11:58:43 AM,
<8sFNf.354$H7.98@bignews3.bellsouth.net> wrote:
[color=blue]
> Seems to me that would be easier than using special computers to read
> the cars error codes.[/color]

You have answered your own question.

Special computers can be controlled and the software to run them can be
proprietary, which equals additional revenue.

Tom in Macon wrote:[color=blue]
> How come cars don't have a USB port so that we could plug our
> computers into them and use the information to diagnose problems? Seems to
> me that would be easier than using special computers to read
> the cars error codes. Anyone know?[/color]

The diagnostic port's already there. It's the software that's missing.

[color=blue]
> But that would be the beauty of making the car USB-accessible. One
> interface and a simple matter of programming to have the car communicate
> with other devices.[/color]


But you are missing the point. Its a great idea for those who want to fiddle
but 95% of car users just want to get in and drive like zombies and have it
as reliable as possible. It is NOT possible to maintain reliability and
simpleness AND have it accessible to the more technically minded person - so
they stick with the vast majority in their customer base. If you want to
fiddle install your own aftermarket systems, its not that hard. If you arent
technically minded enough to do this you shouldnt be fiddling IMO. Apart
from anything, if you introduce a quirk and then flog the car on, the next
user may not know about it and this could be dangerous. I guess it would
then be YOUR fault if they crashed.

J

"Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.GTS> wrote in message
news:HIFNf.4472$AZ1.68@trndny07...[color=blue]
> Now, do you think the idiot that pushed his car beyond the limits is going
> to say, "Gee, I guess I shouldn't have
> done that. My bad."?[/color]

They spoil it for the rest of us. Thats why I've gone the way of the
Megasquirt :)

OMG a Geek AND a Gearhead!!

I would guess from your post you're either an Apple eater, or...or...LINUX!

What is the world coming to... ;)



"Andrew Stephenson" <ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1141319398snz@deltrak.demon.co.uk...[color=blue]
> In article <8sFNf.354$H7.98@bignews3.bellsouth.net>
> [email]TomMacon@member.org[/email] "Tom in Macon" writes:
>[color=green]
>> How come cars don't have a USB port so that we could plug our
>> computers into them and use the information to diagnose
>> problems? Seems to me that would be easier than using special
>> computers to read the cars error codes. Anyone know?[/color]
>
> Maybe They haven't thought of it yet. Maybe They realise there's
> a minefield out there, called "Interfacing" (or similar).
>
> The question is, what signals should the car be ready to exchange
> with whatever you plug into that USB port? Do you want to be
> stuck with using (spit) Windows and risk not being able to talk
> to your car six months later? Or are you willing to keep an old
> computer, just so you can talk to your car?
>
> The closest thing to a lasting standard which I can devise would
> let you plug in a USB MSD Mass Storage Device -- examples being
> flash memory sticks, camera flash cards mounted in USB adapters,
> USB hard drives.
>
> The MSD would need to be formatted in some universally understood
> basic format: say, FAT16. Alternative formats could be accepted.
> When the car's system detects that the MSD has been plugged into
> the USB port, it looks for a file with a special name: DIAGNOSE.
> The car takes that as permission to over-write that file with an
> ASCII readout of the diagnostics. That file can then be read by
> pretty much any computer made during the past forty years or so,
> and looks set to be readable into a pretty far future (at least
> until They abandon USB and/or ASCII).
>
> If the special file is not found, the car's entertainment system
> steps in and tries to find *.MP3 and *.WAV files, which it then
> lists on the display and allows you to select for playing.
>
> Could that work?
> --
> Andrew Stephenson
>[/color]

In article <kjXNf.11310$FY1.6753@trndny06> [email]Trueno@ae86.GTS[/email]
"Hachiroku" writes:[color=blue]
>
> "Andrew Stephenson" <ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1141319398snz@deltrak.demon.co.uk...
>[color=green]
> > [mildly techhy discussion of how to implement a USB port in a
> > car to report diagnostics AND allow playing of MP3/WAV files][/color]
>
> OMG a Geek AND a Gearhead!!
>
> I would guess from your post you're either an Apple eater,
> or...or...LINUX!
>
> What is the world coming to... ;)[/color]

It's worse than you think, laddie. Yes, it can be told: I DO own
an Apple but it's a Powerbook, strictly for civilian computing on
the move. My main machine is an IBM PC running OS/2 (as eCS-1.2)
which of course has _nothing_ to do with (spit) Windows or (hmmm)
Linux.

Be afraid. Be very afraid. :-)
--
Andrew Stephenson

"Coyoteboy" <coyoteboyuk@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:du96ub$3kg$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...[color=blue]
>[color=green]
> > But that would be the beauty of making the car USB-accessible. One
> > interface and a simple matter of programming to have the car communicate
> > with other devices.[/color]
> But you are missing the point. Its a great idea for those who want to[/color]
fiddle[color=blue]
> but 95% of car users just want to get in and drive like zombies and have[/color]
it[color=blue]
> as reliable as possible. It is NOT possible to maintain reliability and
> simpleness AND have it accessible to the more technically minded person -[/color]
so[color=blue]
> they stick with the vast majority in their customer base. If you want to
> fiddle install your own aftermarket systems, its not that hard. If you[/color]
arent[color=blue]
> technically minded enough to do this you shouldnt be fiddling IMO. Apart
> from anything, if you introduce a quirk and then flog the car on, the next
> user may not know about it and this could be dangerous. I guess it would
> then be YOUR fault if they crashed.
>
> J
>[/color]

There's no requirement to make the car's systems updateable. I just want to
read them.

People who want to change the car's systems can already use eproms to do
that.

Fiat is introducing something called Blue&Me for the car - primarily an
interface to the stereo, I think, but the article mentioned that it featured
a USB port.



*** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ***
*** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from [url]http://www.SecureIX.com[/url] ***

[email]vktechmails@yahoo.com[/email] wrote:[color=blue]
> DH wrote:[color=green]
> > "Tom in Macon" <TomMacon@member.org> wrote in message
> > news:8sFNf.354$H7.98@bignews3.bellsouth.net...[color=darkred]
> > > How come cars don't have a USB port so that we could plug our computers[/color]
> > into[color=darkred]
> > > them and use the information to diagnose problems? Seems to me that would
> > > be easier than using special computers to read the cars error codes.[/color]
> > Anyone[color=darkred]
> > > know?
> > > Instead of raising your voice, reinforce your argument![/color][/color][/color]

Sorry, I dunno. My guess is that being able to tweak a car's
electronics that way could get dangerous and also wouldn't be a feature
many buyers would want.
[color=blue][color=green]
> > That would be a nice feature.
> >
> > It would be helpful for GPS nav systems that aren't integrated into the car.
> > Getting real-time speed which, with compass bearing, would be helpful in
> > keeping track of vehicle position when the GPS satellites are obscured by
> > tunnels or buildings.
> >
> > A USB port would be useful for access to the vehicle sound system.
> >
> > A USB port would be useful for real-time data logging so you can see how
> > fast the kids have been driving.[/color][/color]

Agree.

(snip)
[color=blue]
> All these things are possible right now - if you buy autocomputers or
> special purpose gadgets.[/color]

Agree. I met a computer programmer who built a box in the passenger
area of his Mazda Miata. The box gave him the ability to control the
engine controls, alter performance, etc.
[color=blue]
> If toyota provides these as standard equipment
> on a camry, the car will cost thousands of dollas more.[/color]

Don't know.
[color=blue]
> A standard
> driver doesn't need these gadgets.[/color]

Agree, although there are many gadgets now on cars that there's
(arguably) no "need" for, or there was no need for until the gadgets
became available and consumers decided there was a need. For example, I
don't "need" electric windows or remote locking, but now that I'm used
to those features, I wouldn't buy a car without 'em.
[color=blue]
> I recently rented a Mazda (RX6?) which is auto tranny and on the dash
> there is a indicator for which gear the car is currently driving in. I
> just don't understand why that indicator is required[/color]

It can be good to know whether you're in drive, reverse, or park,
especially when you've got the brakes on and aren't moving, such as
when stopped in traffic, at stoplights and intersections, etc. (I
assume the Mazda's indicator tells you whether the car's in drive,
reverse, or park, like other cars with automatic transmissions.)
[color=blue]
>especially when
> there is no control the driver has on gear selection when driving.[/color]

> There's no requirement to make the car's systems updateable. I just want[color=blue]
> to
> read them.[/color]

Well in that case thats pretty simple. Most modern cars use OBDII
diagnostics and the software to view it, and the hardware to connect to it,
are readily available if you are willing to look about a bit. BUT this
reduces revenue for Toyota so why would they make it easy?

J