Car keys

Excerpts from [url]http://online.wsj.com/article/SB114187087816593304.html[/url]

Car manufacturers are increasingly limiting locksmiths' access to the
information needed to program vehicles and make new electronic keys.
They say that making key information more available would diminish the
effectiveness of their anti-theft systems.

But with more dealer profit coming from service and parts departments
than new-car sales, car makers also have an interest in directing
consumers to their dealerships and to the roadside-assistance programs
many of them have launched.

Several states are moving to make it easier to get replacement car
keys. A bill introduced in Maryland would require manufacturers to
give auto owners 24/7 access to information sufficient to make a key
reproduction. Similar legislation is pending in Virginia and was
recently introduced in California.

Some new products try to solve the problem. Companies have come up
with systems that enable drivers to unlock their cars with a Bluetooth
device. And the locksmith industry has developed some tools to crack
auto makers' codes.

While car makers oppose legislation, they have recently started
working with the locksmith industry on another solution. A
vehicle-security committee is working on a system in which registered
locksmiths who pay a fee and meet other criteria like undergoing
background checks could call or go online to obtain key information
from car makers.

But as more cars have the new systems, manufacturers are making less
key information available to locksmiths. Chrysler makes the pin codes
required for programming its Sentry Keys available only to its dealers
and its roadside-assistance program. Replacement Lexus keys have to be
purchased through dealers, though Toyota keys don't. BMW and VW allow
only their dealers to order replacement keys.

Last year, GM stopped providing key-making information to locksmiths
other than those working through GM's roadside-assistance program.
GM's OnStar service also provides assistance with lockouts. It opens a
car with a remote door unlock if a key is inside and sends a locksmith
from the company's roadside-assistance program if keys are lost.

Car makers argue that the inconvenience of having to go to a
dealership or wait a few hours or days for a key is nowhere near as
inconvenient as having to deal with a stolen vehicle.


--

Marriage is very much like a birthday candle,
in that the flames of passion burn brightest
when the wick of intimacy is first ignited
by the disposable butane lighter of physical attraction,
but sooner or later, the heat of familiarity
causes the wax of boredom
to drip all over the vanilla frosting of novelty
and the shredded coconut of romance.

....Dave Barry

On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 23:13:20 -0800, Steve <mju@dvb.inv> wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>Excerpts from [url]http://online.wsj.com/article/SB114187087816593304.html[/url]
>
>Car manufacturers are increasingly limiting locksmiths' access to the
>information needed to program vehicles and make new electronic keys.
>They say that making key information more available would diminish the
>effectiveness of their anti-theft systems.
>
>But with more dealer profit coming from service and parts departments
>than new-car sales, car makers also have an interest in directing
>consumers to their dealerships and to the roadside-assistance programs
>many of them have launched.
>
>Several states are moving to make it easier to get replacement car
>keys. A bill introduced in Maryland would require manufacturers to
>give auto owners 24/7 access to information sufficient to make a key
>reproduction. Similar legislation is pending in Virginia and was
>recently introduced in California.
>
>Some new products try to solve the problem. Companies have come up
>with systems that enable drivers to unlock their cars with a Bluetooth
>device. And the locksmith industry has developed some tools to crack
>auto makers' codes.
>
>While car makers oppose legislation, they have recently started
>working with the locksmith industry on another solution. A
>vehicle-security committee is working on a system in which registered
>locksmiths who pay a fee and meet other criteria like undergoing
>background checks could call or go online to obtain key information
>from car makers.
>
>But as more cars have the new systems, manufacturers are making less
>key information available to locksmiths. Chrysler makes the pin codes
>required for programming its Sentry Keys available only to its dealers
>and its roadside-assistance program. Replacement Lexus keys have to be
>purchased through dealers, though Toyota keys don't. BMW and VW allow
>only their dealers to order replacement keys.
>
>Last year, GM stopped providing key-making information to locksmiths
>other than those working through GM's roadside-assistance program.
>GM's OnStar service also provides assistance with lockouts. It opens a
>car with a remote door unlock if a key is inside and sends a locksmith
>from the company's roadside-assistance program if keys are lost.
>
>Car makers argue that the inconvenience of having to go to a
>dealership or wait a few hours or days for a key is nowhere near as
>inconvenient as having to deal with a stolen vehicle.[/color]


Tommyrot. Many cars are stolen now WITH the keys. houses are often
being broken into to get keys, or sneak-theieves walk into offices,
locker rooms, schools, hospitals etc. and take the keys. In fact,
people, at least in europe, are incrasingly being threatened with
violence to hand over keys, a sort of carjacking@home.

once they have the keys, doesn't matter how much they restrict key
info. BBC have even done a prorgam on it called 'Car wars' showing
the UK's only undercover high speed pursuit team, and this is what
they mainly deal with .

flobert <nomail@here.NOT> wrote in
news:3b9312p83kkvuo10uftcro4gvank13b7fr@4ax.com:

[color=blue]
> Tommyrot. Many cars are stolen now WITH the keys. houses are often
> being broken into to get keys, or sneak-theieves walk into offices,
> locker rooms, schools, hospitals etc. and take the keys. In fact,
> people, at least in europe, are incrasingly being threatened with
> violence to hand over keys, a sort of carjacking@home.[/color]



Europeans have no guns any more. That's why they get robbed so often.



--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
[url]www.tegger.com/hondafaq/[/url]

"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:
[color=blue]
>flobert <nomail@here.NOT> wrote in
>news:3b9312p83kkvuo10uftcro4gvank13b7fr@4ax.com:
>
>[color=green]
>> Tommyrot. Many cars are stolen now WITH the keys. houses are often
>> being broken into to get keys, or sneak-theieves walk into offices,
>> locker rooms, schools, hospitals etc. and take the keys. In fact,
>> people, at least in europe, are incrasingly being threatened with
>> violence to hand over keys, a sort of carjacking@home.[/color]
>
>
>
>Europeans have no guns any more. That's why they get robbed so often.
>[/color]

Speaking of which I hear that the newly elected Gov't of Canada
is coming to it's senses and may quash the 'gun registry' here
(thank frickin God)
--

-Gord.
(use gordon in email)

"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
news:Xns9782D0B55966Dtegger@207.14.113.17...[color=blue]
>
> Europeans have no guns any more. That's why they get robbed so often.[/color]

LOL! What a joke!

On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 23:13:20 -0800, Steve <mju@dvb.inv> wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>Excerpts from [url]http://online.wsj.com/article/SB114187087816593304.html[/url]
>
>Car manufacturers are increasingly limiting locksmiths' access to the
>information needed to program vehicles and make new electronic keys.
>They say that making key information more available would diminish the
>effectiveness of their anti-theft systems.[/color]
Last time (2002) I bought a spare key for my Honda it was a "dealer
only" item and $40. Looks like a scam to me

On 11 Mar 2006 01:28:20 GMT, "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:
[color=blue]
>flobert <nomail@here.NOT> wrote in
>news:3b9312p83kkvuo10uftcro4gvank13b7fr@4ax.com:
>
>[color=green]
>> Tommyrot. Many cars are stolen now WITH the keys. houses are often
>> being broken into to get keys, or sneak-theieves walk into offices,
>> locker rooms, schools, hospitals etc. and take the keys. In fact,
>> people, at least in europe, are incrasingly being threatened with
>> violence to hand over keys, a sort of carjacking@home.[/color]
>
>
>
>Europeans have no guns any more. That's why they get robbed so often.[/color]

Europe has plenty of guns. Alas, they're mainly in the hands of the
criminals.

Have to note, lived in Liverpool for 20+ years, which some consider to
be a bad city crime wise. in that time, 1 burgalry, and my car stolen
once (a custom Mg metro twin-turbo, ina metro city bodyshell -
recovered 9 hours after I reported it).

[color=blue]
>[/color]

"flobert" <nomail@here.NOT> wrote in message
news:si2612tqs3aguon62re572jdrf9ebfrj6d@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> On 11 Mar 2006 01:28:20 GMT, "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>
>>Europeans have no guns any more. That's why they get robbed so often.[/color]
>
> Europe has plenty of guns. Alas, they're mainly in the hands of the
> criminals.
>[/color]
I recall a few years ago the police in Phoenix got into a gunfight on the
street with some Bad Guy. Two local citizens joined in. YeeHaw!

Seriously, though, I lived in truly bad neighborhoods for several years when
I was in my teens and early 20s; areas where the police would drive through
but wouldn't stop at night. In the worst of those nobody ever bothered
anybody's car on the street. Everybody knew a quick death was too much to
hope for if they were caught.

Mike

Steve wrote:
[color=blue]
> Excerpts from [url]http://online.wsj.com/article/SB114187087816593304.html[/url]
>
> Car manufacturers are increasingly limiting locksmiths' access to the
> information needed to program vehicles and make new electronic keys.
> They say that making key information more available would diminish the
> effectiveness of their anti-theft systems.[/color]

etc.

An ideal sytem would have normal keys and fobs that can unlock the car
remotely, just as now, but with a password or code something like when
you password your computer programs. Before you could start the car you
would input a simple code. The inspiration with this idea is that if you
were held under duress or forced by a carjacker or rapist to give up the
code, you could give them a duress code that would start the car, but
transmit a help signal to the GPS system that would also track you and
get help. It could also stall the engine after 5 minutes, or whatever.

My Ford Freestar has a keypad on the driver's door that permits me to
get in if I lock the keys in the car.

Gary Eickmeier

"Gary Eickmeier" <geickmei@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:FMWQf.72154$Fw6.25331@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...[color=blue]
>
> An ideal sytem would have normal keys and fobs that can unlock the car
> remotely, just as now, but with a password or code something like when you
> password your computer programs. Before you could start the car you would
> input a simple code. The inspiration with this idea is that if you were
> held under duress or forced by a carjacker or rapist to give up the code,
> you could give them a duress code that would start the car, but transmit a
> help signal to the GPS system that would also track you and get help. It
> could also stall the engine after 5 minutes, or whatever.
>[/color]
My son's first car was a carbureted Subaru with an electric fuel pump. He
put a switch in line with the pump and hid the switch where he could turn it
off without being noticed as he got out of the car, the idea being he could
leave the car to a carjacker and run, then come back and pick up the car a
block away after the float bowl ran dry. Any carjacker would assume the car
just crapped out... heck, any passerby would assume that car wouldn't make
it far anyway!

Mike

Michael Pardee wrote:
[color=blue]
> "Gary Eickmeier" <geickmei@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:FMWQf.72154$Fw6.25331@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
>[color=green]
>>An ideal sytem would have normal keys and fobs that can unlock the car
>>remotely, just as now, but with a password or code something like when you
>>password your computer programs. Before you could start the car you would
>>input a simple code. The inspiration with this idea is that if you were
>>held under duress or forced by a carjacker or rapist to give up the code,
>>you could give them a duress code that would start the car, but transmit a
>>help signal to the GPS system that would also track you and get help. It
>>could also stall the engine after 5 minutes, or whatever.
>>[/color]
>
> My son's first car was a carbureted Subaru with an electric fuel pump. He
> put a switch in line with the pump and hid the switch where he could turn it
> off without being noticed as he got out of the car, the idea being he could
> leave the car to a carjacker and run, then come back and pick up the car a
> block away after the float bowl ran dry. Any carjacker would assume the car
> just crapped out... heck, any passerby would assume that car wouldn't make
> it far anyway![/color]

Clever.

I just don't see the utility of all these chipped keys. If the bad guys
get a hold of one, they can take your car anyway. It's harder to use a
dummy key to start a car if you jimmy your way in, but they don't
usually rely on keys to start a stolen car anyway. And it makes
obtaining another key much more difficult and expensive.

Maybe we'll have a 9-1-1 button on our cel phones for duress in the future.

Gary Eickmeier

Michael Pardee wrote:
[color=blue]
> "flobert" <nomail@here.NOT> wrote in message
> news:si2612tqs3aguon62re572jdrf9ebfrj6d@4ax.com...
>[color=green]
>>On 11 Mar 2006 01:28:20 GMT, "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:
>>
>>[color=darkred]
>>>Europeans have no guns any more. That's why they get robbed so often.[/color]
>>
>>Europe has plenty of guns. Alas, they're mainly in the hands of the
>>criminals.
>>[/color]
>
> I recall a few years ago the police in Phoenix got into a gunfight on the
> street with some Bad Guy. Two local citizens joined in. YeeHaw!
>
> Seriously, though, I lived in truly bad neighborhoods for several years when
> I was in my teens and early 20s; areas where the police would drive through
> but wouldn't stop at night. In the worst of those nobody ever bothered
> anybody's car on the street. Everybody knew a quick death was too much to
> hope for if they were caught.[/color]

Kind of a "Trunk Monkey" solution?

Gary Eickmeier

Gord Beaman wrote:[color=blue]
> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:
>[color=green]
>> flobert <nomail@here.NOT> wrote in
>> news:3b9312p83kkvuo10uftcro4gvank13b7fr@4ax.com:
>>
>>[color=darkred]
>>> Tommyrot. Many cars are stolen now WITH the keys. houses are often
>>> being broken into to get keys, or sneak-theieves walk into offices,
>>> locker rooms, schools, hospitals etc. and take the keys. In fact,
>>> people, at least in europe, are incrasingly being threatened with
>>> violence to hand over keys, a sort of carjacking@home.[/color]
>>
>>
>>
>> Europeans have no guns any more. That's why they get robbed so often.
>>[/color]
>
> Speaking of which I hear that the newly elected Gov't of Canada
> is coming to it's senses and may quash the 'gun registry' here
> (thank frickin God)[/color]

We actually agree on something. Are you SURE that you live in Ontario?