Help...Water in oilpan

I just installed a long block 22RE into my 94 toyota 4x4. After
completing the intstall i ran the engine for about 30 seconds then shut
it down to double check for leaks. I found that the block was full of
water/antifreeze. I have no idea what year model the long block was or
if it even makes any differance. I am pretty sure I have all the hoses
in the proper places,but I am affraid I may have missed something when
putting the timing cover on and every thing that goes with it.

Can anyone think of any reason I am getting water in the oil?

"Brad" <stratmaster@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:1142298917.937433.63500@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>I just installed a long block 22RE into my 94 toyota 4x4. After
> completing the intstall i ran the engine for about 30 seconds then shut
> it down to double check for leaks. I found that the block was full of
> water/antifreeze. I have no idea what year model the long block was or
> if it even makes any differance. I am pretty sure I have all the hoses
> in the proper places,but I am affraid I may have missed something when
> putting the timing cover on and every thing that goes with it.
>
> Can anyone think of any reason I am getting water in the oil?[/color]

Water in the oil usually comes from a head gasket problem (leaking gasket,
improper head torque, incorrect gasket); a head problem (warped head,
improper head torque, incorrect head), or a cracked block.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

Hopefully I have something hooked up wrong or used the wrong gasket
somewhere, but the first step is to call the company where I bought the
rebuilt long block. The block came with a gasket set and I have a
water pump gasket and timing cover gasket left over. I know I
installed the gaskets for those items. My question is why did the kit
come with two gaskets for the timing cover and water pump? Is there a
difference between some toyota engines?

"Brad" <stratmaster@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:1142339230.392827.269000@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> Hopefully I have something hooked up wrong or used the wrong gasket
> somewhere, but the first step is to call the company where I bought the
> rebuilt long block. The block came with a gasket set and I have a
> water pump gasket and timing cover gasket left over. I know I
> installed the gaskets for those items. My question is why did the kit
> come with two gaskets for the timing cover and water pump? Is there a
> difference between some toyota engines?
>[/color]

Did you compare the 2 water pump gaskets before choosing one to install?

You can check your water pump installation, but unless you totally botched
it, I doubt if that is the cause of the water in the oil.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

I didn't compare the two water pump gaskets. I wasn't aware there was
two in the set until toward the end of the install. I remember nothing
standing out as odd when I put the gasket on so I really don't think
that is the problem. As far as I can

I contacted the company that provided the long block and they have
requested that I bring the timing cover so their tech can look at it.
I believe they are suspecting the common problem where the timing cover
is worn from the chain rubbing against the cover. I am certian that
is not the problem, but to make them happy I will bring it up there. I
am debating if I should bring the intake manifold with me when I bring
the timing cover and let them look over it at the same time.

"Brad" <stratmaster@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:1142361422.947941.12920@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>I didn't compare the two water pump gaskets. I wasn't aware there was
> two in the set until toward the end of the install. I remember nothing
> standing out as odd when I put the gasket on so I really don't think
> that is the problem. As far as I can
>
> I contacted the company that provided the long block and they have
> requested that I bring the timing cover so their tech can look at it.
> I believe they are suspecting the common problem where the timing cover
> is worn from the chain rubbing against the cover. I am certian that
> is not the problem, but to make them happy I will bring it up there. I
> am debating if I should bring the intake manifold with me when I bring
> the timing cover and let them look over it at the same time.
>[/color]

If the timing chain rubbed on the block or cover because the tensioner was
bad, the damage should have been noticeable when doing the work on the chain
and water pump.

You can take the intake manifold as well, but I can't imagine how it could
be related to the problem with water in the oil. As you eliminate possible
causes, the remaining clues seem to point to a head gasket problem. It is
probably worth your while to check on the head torque.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

The first thing I did this evening was to put water back in the
radiator with the oil plug removed from the oilpan to see just how bad
the leak was. I had a steady stream of water flowing out of the
oilpan. I can't see how a bad gasket seal would allow that much water
to leak by.

I went ahead and pulled the timing cover, water pump, and oil pump.
All the gaskets were correct and installed properly. I don't know why
the gasket kit had extra gaskets, but I am not complaining now :-)

Thinking out loud: How does the water enter the head?
Through the intake? What would happen if I put water directly into the
thermostat inlet (the thermostat is removed)....where does it go? If I
plugged all possible ports behind the timing cover and filled the inlet
with water I should be able to eliminate the timing cover...maybe...I
think I will go try that. While I am at it I will take your suggestion
and check the torque on the head bolts.

By the way, you can't imagine how much I appreciate your help with my
problem. It is nice having other opinions and suggestions to work
with.

Thanks Again!!
Brad

A few pieces of duck tape later....

With the three possible ways water can enter the timing cover and water
pump plugged I filled the block with water...(timing cover
removed)...No leak. With the timing cover installed and water added to
the radiator the leak is there. That points to either improper gasket
application or a dammaged timing cover. Would you agree?

My timing cover has no visible signs of wear, but i will bring it up to
the shop to let the tech check it out. The only possibility of dammage
would be a crack in the cover not visable to the eye, but I don't see
how that would allow that much water to pass. I am thinking I hosed up
on the gasket application :-( On the bright side...if that is the
problem I will not have to buy a $200 timing cover :-)

<Previous post copied and pasted, comments inserted between paragraphs>

The first thing I did this evening was to put water back in the
radiator with the oil plug removed from the oilpan to see just how bad
the leak was. I had a steady stream of water flowing out of the
oilpan. I can't see how a bad gasket seal would allow that much water
to leak by.

********
I don't see how a bad head gasket can let that much water into the oil pan.
********

I went ahead and pulled the timing cover, water pump, and oil pump.
All the gaskets were correct and installed properly. I don't know why
the gasket kit had extra gaskets, but I am not complaining now :-)

Thinking out loud: How does the water enter the head?
Through the intake?

*************

Coolant enters the head through the block. There is no coolant in the
intake manifold.

***************

What would happen if I put water directly into the
thermostat inlet (the thermostat is removed)....where does it go?

************
I imagine some of the water would flow into the radiator, the rest would
flow into the block.
*************

If I
plugged all possible ports behind the timing cover and filled the inlet
with water I should be able to eliminate the timing cover...maybe...I
think I will go try that. While I am at it I will take your suggestion
and check the torque on the head bolts.

By the way, you can't imagine how much I appreciate your help with my
problem. It is nice having other opinions and suggestions to work
with.

************
Thanks for the kind words!
*************

"Brad" <stratmaster@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:1142388153.146808.120340@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>A few pieces of duck tape later....
>
> With the three possible ways water can enter the timing cover and water
> pump plugged I filled the block with water...(timing cover
> removed)...No leak. With the timing cover installed and water added to
> the radiator the leak is there. That points to either improper gasket
> application or a dammaged timing cover. Would you agree?[/color]

***************
Yes
**************
[color=blue]
>
> My timing cover has no visible signs of wear, but i will bring it up to
> the shop to let the tech check it out. The only possibility of dammage
> would be a crack in the cover not visable to the eye, but I don't see
> how that would allow that much water to pass. I am thinking I hosed up
> on the gasket application :-( On the bright side...if that is the
> problem I will not have to buy a $200 timing cover :-)
>[/color]

************
Just for grins, grab the crankshaft pulley (if installed) and see if there
is any fore-aft play in the crankshaft. If there is play, check to make
sure the crankshaft thrust washers (horseshoe-shaped spacer washers) have
not fallen out into the oil pan. Excessive crankshaft movement might have
damaged a seal or the timing cover itself.

Good luck!

--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)
************

>Just for grins, grab the crankshaft pulley (if installed) and see if there[color=blue]
>is any fore-aft play in the crankshaft.[/color]

*******
When I removed the pulley to pull the timing cover there was no
noticable play. In fact it was harder to remove this time for some
reason than it was the first time i pulled it. The washers are still
in the shaft.

[color=blue]
>Coolant enters the head through the block. There is no coolant in the
>intake manifold.[/color]

*********
Even though the thermostat is housed on the intake manifold, no water
flows through the manifold? There are two pipes that bolt to the
intake manifold. One channels exhaust and the other...I
thought...channelled coolant (goes to the heater).


**Another Topic**
What should I use to clean the white foamy oil/water from the head
before installing the valve cover? Would WD-40 do a good job due to
its water displacement qualities?

"Brad" <stratmaster@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:1142426700.782220.117430@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...[color=blue][color=green]
> >Just for grins, grab the crankshaft pulley (if installed) and see if
> >there
>>is any fore-aft play in the crankshaft.[/color]
>
> *******
> When I removed the pulley to pull the timing cover there was no
> noticable play. In fact it was harder to remove this time for some
> reason than it was the first time i pulled it. The washers are still
> in the shaft.
>
>[color=green]
>>Coolant enters the head through the block. There is no coolant in the
>>intake manifold.[/color]
>
> *********
> Even though the thermostat is housed on the intake manifold, no water
> flows through the manifold? There are two pipes that bolt to the
> intake manifold. One channels exhaust and the other...I
> thought...channelled coolant (goes to the heater).
>
>[/color]

Now you have me thinking... It has been a long time since I looked at a 20R
so I can't recall the head and thermostat setup. That said, I'm still
pretty sure that coolant is not circulating through the intake manifold

[color=blue]
> **Another Topic**
> What should I use to clean the white foamy oil/water from the head
> before installing the valve cover? Would WD-40 do a good job due to
> its water displacement qualities?
>[/color]
WD-40 might be worth a try.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

I took the cover to the shop this afternoon and was told it was fine.
Brought it home and tried to mount the cover and noticed it didn't want
to sit flat on the front of the motor. After a few minutes of
evaluating the situation I found the reason for my water leak. There
are two tube alignment sleeves that are pressed into the block. When I
swapped the timing cover over to the new engine one of the alignment
tubes was stuck in the cover and I didn't notice it. It just happened
to be the one located next to the water inlet for the block. Now I
just have to put it all back together and cross my fingers. Hopefully
I will have it running by the weekend.

Brad

On 15 Mar 2006 18:20:56 -0800, "Brad" <stratmaster@peoplepc.com>
wrote:
[color=blue]
>I took the cover to the shop this afternoon and was told it was fine.
>Brought it home and tried to mount the cover and noticed it didn't want
>to sit flat on the front of the motor. After a few minutes of
>evaluating the situation I found the reason for my water leak. There
>are two tube alignment sleeves that are pressed into the block. When I
>swapped the timing cover over to the new engine one of the alignment
>tubes was stuck in the cover and I didn't notice it. It just happened
>to be the one located next to the water inlet for the block. Now I
>just have to put it all back together and cross my fingers. Hopefully
>I will have it running by the weekend.
>
>Brad[/color]

We are all pulling for ya!

Good luck!

--

Scott in Florida

Scott in Florida <MoveOn@outa.here> wrote:
[color=blue]
>On 15 Mar 2006 18:20:56 -0800, "Brad" <stratmaster@peoplepc.com>
>wrote:
>[color=green]
>>I took the cover to the shop this afternoon and was told it was fine.
>>Brought it home and tried to mount the cover and noticed it didn't want
>>to sit flat on the front of the motor. After a few minutes of
>>evaluating the situation I found the reason for my water leak. There
>>are two tube alignment sleeves that are pressed into the block. When I
>>swapped the timing cover over to the new engine one of the alignment
>>tubes was stuck in the cover and I didn't notice it. It just happened
>>to be the one located next to the water inlet for the block. Now I
>>just have to put it all back together and cross my fingers. Hopefully
>>I will have it running by the weekend.
>>
>>Brad[/color]
>
>We are all pulling for ya!
>[/color]

Figuratively of course!...
--

-Gord.
(use gordon in email)

Got it running with no noticable leaks. Wow...feels pretty good. If
it wasn't for the alignment pin i missed probably wouldn't have had any
problems.

Thanks for everyones help and support.

Brad