Why is the sheet metal on Toyotas so damn cheap

Ok, Last year it hailed and my hood was peppered, while my GMC Y neighbor
didnt get a spot. Last Saturday, a kid threw one of those balls that bounces
up really high, it hit my neighbors car, (who was in my driveway) my brand
new C6 corvette and my 4runner. None of the GM cars got dented, but my
4runner (2003 model) has a huge indent, and it was the last car the ball
bounced off of. What the hell kind of steel is that? I love the reliability,
but do they make their bodies out of recycled steel or something?

"Dan J.S." <me@hyperx.com> wrote in message
news:121cgqog7fcus57@news.supernews.com...[color=blue]
> Ok, Last year it hailed and my hood was peppered, while my GMC Y neighbor
> didnt get a spot. Last Saturday, a kid threw one of those balls that
> bounces up really high, it hit my neighbors car, (who was in my driveway)
> my brand new C6 corvette and my 4runner. None of the GM cars got dented,
> but my 4runner (2003 model) has a huge indent, and it was the last car the
> ball bounced off of. What the hell kind of steel is that? I love the
> reliability, but do they make their bodies out of recycled steel or
> something?[/color]
Hoods are generally the thinnest sheet metal in a car. They are made light
to save weight and fuel.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

"Dan J.S." <me@hyperx.com> wrote in message
news:121cgqog7fcus57@news.supernews.com...[color=blue]
> Ok, Last year it hailed and my hood was peppered, while my GMC Y neighbor
> didnt get a spot. Last Saturday, a kid threw one of those balls that
> bounces up really high, it hit my neighbors car, (who was in my driveway)
> my brand new C6 corvette and my 4runner. None of the GM cars got dented,
> but my 4runner (2003 model) has a huge indent, and it was the last car the
> ball bounced off of. What the hell kind of steel is that? I love the
> reliability, but do they make their bodies out of recycled steel or
> something?[/color]


Because Japanese (and european) cars are generally much more efficient than
their gas-guzzling counterparts due to being lower weight for the same size
of engine.To get the lower weight they make them smaller and of thinner
metal. We dont get mental hail storms over here so it doesnt bother us, and
they wont make the metal thicker to suit what is, to them, a limited market
(US+canada).

My celica has dented wings from the MOT man pressing on them to test the
shock absorbers -thats how thin.

Its usually DEAD cheap to replace though, which is a bonus.

J

Ray O wrote:[color=blue]
> "Dan J.S." <me@hyperx.com> wrote in message
> news:121cgqog7fcus57@news.supernews.com...[color=green]
>> Ok, Last year it hailed and my hood was peppered, while my GMC Y neighbor
>> didnt get a spot. Last Saturday, a kid threw one of those balls that
>> bounces up really high, it hit my neighbors car, (who was in my driveway)
>> my brand new C6 corvette and my 4runner. None of the GM cars got dented,
>> but my 4runner (2003 model) has a huge indent, and it was the last car the
>> ball bounced off of. What the hell kind of steel is that? I love the
>> reliability, but do they make their bodies out of recycled steel or
>> something?[/color]
> Hoods are generally the thinnest sheet metal in a car. They are made light
> to save weight and fuel.[/color]


Corvette's are fiberglass.

"Dan J.S." <me@hyperx.com> wrote in message
news:121cgqog7fcus57@news.supernews.com...[color=blue]
> Ok, Last year it hailed and my hood was peppered, while my GMC Y neighbor
> didnt get a spot. Last Saturday, a kid threw one of those balls that
> bounces up really high, it hit my neighbors car, (who was in my driveway)
> my brand new C6 corvette and my 4runner. None of the GM cars got dented,
> but my 4runner (2003 model) has a huge indent, and it was the last car the
> ball bounced off of. What the hell kind of steel is that? I love the
> reliability, but do they make their bodies out of recycled steel or
> something?
>[/color]

Yup.

And your Corvette is Plastic...

"Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.GTS> wrote in message
news:juARf.1646$Vb.1078@trndny01...[color=blue]
>
> "Dan J.S." <me@hyperx.com> wrote in message
> news:121cgqog7fcus57@news.supernews.com...[color=green]
>> Ok, Last year it hailed and my hood was peppered, while my GMC Y neighbor
>> didnt get a spot. Last Saturday, a kid threw one of those balls that
>> bounces up really high, it hit my neighbors car, (who was in my driveway)
>> my brand new C6 corvette and my 4runner. None of the GM cars got dented,
>> but my 4runner (2003 model) has a huge indent, and it was the last car
>> the ball bounced off of. What the hell kind of steel is that? I love the
>> reliability, but do they make their bodies out of recycled steel or
>> something?
>>[/color]
>
> Yup.
>
> And your Corvette is Plastic...
>[/color]

It may be plastic (fiberglass) , but there is no dent. In either case, I got
one of those suction systems that pulls up the dents. Will try it this
weekend to see if it works.

In article <121cgqog7fcus57@news.supernews.com> [email]me@hyperx.com[/email]
"Dan J.S." writes:
[color=blue]
> [unhappy about Toyotas sheet metal denting easily][/color]

This may be relevant. A friend who worked in the purchasing dept
of a big British car company -- back when we had some of those, a
bit like the US still (just) has -- told me they used steel that
work-hardens. When new, it is softer than it will be, allowing
complex pressings to be made more easily. The vibrations of the
car's everyday existence cause the steel to become harder. Thus,
he said, don't apply excess localised pressure to any sheet metal
parts, at least for the first few months of normal use. Meaning,
eg: not slamming a door by bumping its side with your butt; etc.

If the same kind of steel was used in those two new(ish) cars of
yours, hail and kids' balls could easily exert excess localised
pressure.

Just a thought.
--
Andrew Stephenson

2 words: Dent Wizard. Costs about $50 per dent last time I used them.
Satisfaction guaranteed or you don't pay.


"Dan J.S." <me@hyperx.com> wrote in message
news:121dn37emgkpve4@news.supernews.com...[color=blue]
>
> "Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.GTS> wrote in message
> news:juARf.1646$Vb.1078@trndny01...[color=green]
>>
>> "Dan J.S." <me@hyperx.com> wrote in message
>> news:121cgqog7fcus57@news.supernews.com...[color=darkred]
>>> Ok, Last year it hailed and my hood was peppered, while my GMC Y
>>> neighbor didnt get a spot. Last Saturday, a kid threw one of those balls
>>> that bounces up really high, it hit my neighbors car, (who was in my
>>> driveway) my brand new C6 corvette and my 4runner. None of the GM cars
>>> got dented, but my 4runner (2003 model) has a huge indent, and it was
>>> the last car the ball bounced off of. What the hell kind of steel is
>>> that? I love the reliability, but do they make their bodies out of
>>> recycled steel or something?
>>>[/color]
>>
>> Yup.
>>
>> And your Corvette is Plastic...
>>[/color]
>
> It may be plastic (fiberglass) , but there is no dent. In either case, I
> got one of those suction systems that pulls up the dents. Will try it this
> weekend to see if it works.
>[/color]

On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:50:57 +0000, Andrew Stephenson wrote:
[color=blue]
> In article <121cgqog7fcus57@news.supernews.com> [email]me@hyperx.com[/email]
> "Dan J.S." writes:
>[color=green]
>> [unhappy about Toyotas sheet metal denting easily][/color]
>
> This may be relevant. A friend who worked in the purchasing dept
> of a big British car company -- back when we had some of those, a
> bit like the US still (just) has -- told me they used steel that
> work-hardens. When new, it is softer than it will be, allowing
> complex pressings to be made more easily. The vibrations of the
> car's everyday existence cause the steel to become harder. Thus,
> he said, don't apply excess localised pressure to any sheet metal
> parts, at least for the first few months of normal use. Meaning,
> eg: not slamming a door by bumping its side with your butt; etc.
>
> If the same kind of steel was used in those two new(ish) cars of
> yours, hail and kids' balls could easily exert excess localised
> pressure.
>
> Just a thought.[/color]

Sounds like a load of nonsense to me. Vibrating the car isn't going to
make the body harder, sorry. That's not what work-hardening is.

[url]http://www.engineersedge.com/material_science/work_strain_hardening.htm[/url]

OTOH, the thickness of sheet-metal on cars is something I've been curious
about. It's one of the many things that the manufacturers simply do not
tell you. I wish they would provide information about things like metal
thickness and anti-corrosion measures, but they don't.

"Andrew Stephenson" <ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1142351457snz@deltrak.demon.co.uk...[color=blue]
> In article <121cgqog7fcus57@news.supernews.com> [email]me@hyperx.com[/email]
> "Dan J.S." writes:
>[color=green]
>> [unhappy about Toyotas sheet metal denting easily][/color]
>
> This may be relevant. A friend who worked in the purchasing dept
> of a big British car company -- back when we had some of those, a
> bit like the US still (just) has -- told me they used steel that
> work-hardens. When new, it is softer than it will be, allowing
><snip> --
> Andrew Stephenson
>[/color]

Sorry, this is wrong. Work hardening only occurs when the metal has been
taken beyond its yield point repeatedly. Vibrations in a car body occur
within the elastic region (or your car would alter its shape too as you
drove it) so work hardening doesnt apply. Your friend in the purchasing
department should keep his nose out of engineering lol.

J

The average used is 22 gauge steel. The best HC 22 gauge currently on the
market was developed by Bethlehem Steel, the former owner of the Burns
Harbor plant now owned by an Indian company that bought our ISG, the company
that bought BSCO. Toyota uses steel made in a former American owned steel
plant, the name of which escapes me at the moment, now owned by Nippon Steel
Co.


mike hunt


"dizzy" <dizzy@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:pan.2006.03.14.23.29.46.226199@nospam.invalid...[color=blue]
> On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:50:57 +0000, Andrew Stephenson wrote:
>[color=green]
>> In article <121cgqog7fcus57@news.supernews.com> [email]me@hyperx.com[/email]
>> "Dan J.S." writes:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> [unhappy about Toyotas sheet metal denting easily][/color]
>>
>> This may be relevant. A friend who worked in the purchasing dept
>> of a big British car company -- back when we had some of those, a
>> bit like the US still (just) has -- told me they used steel that
>> work-hardens. When new, it is softer than it will be, allowing
>> complex pressings to be made more easily. The vibrations of the
>> car's everyday existence cause the steel to become harder. Thus,
>> he said, don't apply excess localised pressure to any sheet metal
>> parts, at least for the first few months of normal use. Meaning,
>> eg: not slamming a door by bumping its side with your butt; etc.
>>
>> If the same kind of steel was used in those two new(ish) cars of
>> yours, hail and kids' balls could easily exert excess localised
>> pressure.
>>
>> Just a thought.[/color]
>
> Sounds like a load of nonsense to me. Vibrating the car isn't going to
> make the body harder, sorry. That's not what work-hardening is.
>
> [url]http://www.engineersedge.com/material_science/work_strain_hardening.htm[/url]
>
> OTOH, the thickness of sheet-metal on cars is something I've been curious
> about. It's one of the many things that the manufacturers simply do not
> tell you. I wish they would provide information about things like metal
> thickness and anti-corrosion measures, but they don't.
>[/color]

I believe steel isn't just steel now. There are all kinds of things in it
to make it quiet and strong. That is why when you hear a car crash, if it
is a newer car it is a low pitch sound but if it is an old car it is a high
pitch sound. Also that is why Dent Wizard works. They can only work one
newer cars with flexible steel.


"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:gGqdnfXQm8CYw4rZUSdV9g@ptd.net...[color=blue]
> The average used is 22 gauge steel. The best HC 22 gauge currently on the
> market was developed by Bethlehem Steel, the former owner of the Burns
> Harbor plant now owned by an Indian company that bought our ISG, the
> company that bought BSCO. Toyota uses steel made in a former American
> owned steel plant, the name of which escapes me at the moment, now owned
> by Nippon Steel Co.
>
>
> mike hunt
>
>
> "dizzy" <dizzy@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
> news:pan.2006.03.14.23.29.46.226199@nospam.invalid...[color=green]
>> On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:50:57 +0000, Andrew Stephenson wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> In article <121cgqog7fcus57@news.supernews.com> [email]me@hyperx.com[/email]
>>> "Dan J.S." writes:
>>>
>>>> [unhappy about Toyotas sheet metal denting easily]
>>>
>>> This may be relevant. A friend who worked in the purchasing dept
>>> of a big British car company -- back when we had some of those, a
>>> bit like the US still (just) has -- told me they used steel that
>>> work-hardens. When new, it is softer than it will be, allowing
>>> complex pressings to be made more easily. The vibrations of the
>>> car's everyday existence cause the steel to become harder. Thus,
>>> he said, don't apply excess localised pressure to any sheet metal
>>> parts, at least for the first few months of normal use. Meaning,
>>> eg: not slamming a door by bumping its side with your butt; etc.
>>>
>>> If the same kind of steel was used in those two new(ish) cars of
>>> yours, hail and kids' balls could easily exert excess localised
>>> pressure.
>>>
>>> Just a thought.[/color]
>>
>> Sounds like a load of nonsense to me. Vibrating the car isn't going to
>> make the body harder, sorry. That's not what work-hardening is.
>>
>> [url]http://www.engineersedge.com/material_science/work_strain_hardening.htm[/url]
>>
>> OTOH, the thickness of sheet-metal on cars is something I've been curious
>> about. It's one of the many things that the manufacturers simply do not
>> tell you. I wish they would provide information about things like metal
>> thickness and anti-corrosion measures, but they don't.
>>[/color]
>
>[/color]

In article <pan.2006.03.14.23.29.46.226199@nospam.invalid>
[email]dizzy@nospam.inva[/email]lid "dizzy" writes:
[color=blue]
> On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:50:57 +0000, Andrew Stephenson wrote:
>[color=green]
> > In article <121cgqog7fcus57@news.supernews.com> [email]me@hyperx.com[/email]
> > "Dan J.S." writes:
> >[color=darkred]
> >> [unhappy about Toyotas sheet metal denting easily][/color]
> >
> > This may be relevant. A friend who worked in the purchasing dept
> > of a big British car company -- back when we had some of those, a
> > bit like the US still (just) has -- told me they used steel that
> > work-hardens. [...][/color]
>
> Sounds like a load of nonsense to me. Vibrating the car isn't going to
> make the body harder, sorry. That's not what work-hardening is.
>
> [...][/color]

It _may_ be a load of nonsense; and I agree it clashes with the
usual idea of what causes work hardening. But it's thirty years
too late to check, as he told me that around 1974. OTOH, AIUI
(from a factory department where I worked briefly as a student,
which did the factory's various hardening jobs) the steel chains
used for cranes must be annealed now and then to correct effects
of working loads; whether that counts as "work hardening", pass.
--
Andrew Stephenson

Actually they have no real frame at all. Just engine cradles and
reinforcing members as needed. Full perimeter frames take up too much room
unless you are a Ford towncar, or other old design car, or a truck.


"Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.GTS> wrote in message
news:7uLRf.912$Sb.224@trndny08...[color=blue]
> On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:15:19 -0600, Dan J.S. wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Ok, Last year it hailed and my hood was peppered, while my GMC Y neighbor
>> didnt get a spot. Last Saturday, a kid threw one of those balls that
>> bounces
>> up really high, it hit my neighbors car, (who was in my driveway) my
>> brand
>> new C6 corvette and my 4runner. None of the GM cars got dented, but my
>> 4runner (2003 model) has a huge indent, and it was the last car the ball
>> bounced off of. What the hell kind of steel is that? I love the
>> reliability,
>> but do they make their bodies out of recycled steel or something?[/color]
>
> Toyotas are primarily designed for the Japanese market.
> In the Japanese market, gasoline is at least double what it is in the US.
> They need to make fuel efficient cars, so they are desinged with very
> strong frames and very light panels.
> If I felt like being a wise ass, I'd say, "Buy a Ford"
> But I don't! ;)
>[/color]

Art wrote:[color=blue]
> Actually they have no real frame at all. Just engine cradles and
> reinforcing members as needed. Full perimeter frames take up too much room
> unless you are a Ford towncar, or other old design car, or a truck.[/color]

They still have main structural box sections creating a 'chassis' and
panels added on that arent required for the stiffness of the car.