toyota, honda must fess up to less vroom

[url]http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060313/AUTO01/603130[/url]
350/1148

It turns out Toyota Motor Corp. isn't as strong as it appears in at
least one area -- under the hood.

Testing under stricter new horsepower standards reveals that most of
the models in Toyota's lineup have less oomph than the company has
advertised. Even though the engines are unchanged, the automaker had to
lower the horsepower ratings on all but few 2006 Toyota, Lexus and
Scion models. The reductions range from 4 to 20 horsepower compared
with 2005 models.

No one really gives a crap. What they give a crap about is that an 8 year
old HonToy has less defects than a 3 year old Ford. And that the vehicles
have resale value while GM/Ford only have salvage value.


"badgolferman" <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:xn0ejr4l02eefaa000@news.readfreenews.net...[color=blue]
> [url]http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060313/AUTO01/603130[/url]
> 350/1148
>
> It turns out Toyota Motor Corp. isn't as strong as it appears in at
> least one area -- under the hood.
>
> Testing under stricter new horsepower standards reveals that most of
> the models in Toyota's lineup have less oomph than the company has
> advertised. Even though the engines are unchanged, the automaker had to
> lower the horsepower ratings on all but few 2006 Toyota, Lexus and
> Scion models. The reductions range from 4 to 20 horsepower compared
> with 2005 models.[/color]

Sorry, BGM, when was your first clue?

But, even the Honda engines, which generally do porduce more HP than a
similar sized Toyota engine do so at a price.
Honda, Nissan, Mazda and Subaru squeeze some extra HP at the cost of an
Interference head.
Very few Toyotas have Interference heads.
I'll give up 15 HP for not having to replace the top end and maybe a couple
pistons if the belt blows.


"badgolferman" <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:xn0ejr4l02eefaa000@news.readfreenews.net...[color=blue]
> [url]http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060313/AUTO01/603130[/url]
> 350/1148
>
> It turns out Toyota Motor Corp. isn't as strong as it appears in at
> least one area -- under the hood.
>
> Testing under stricter new horsepower standards reveals that most of
> the models in Toyota's lineup have less oomph than the company has
> advertised. Even though the engines are unchanged, the automaker had to
> lower the horsepower ratings on all but few 2006 Toyota, Lexus and
> Scion models. The reductions range from 4 to 20 horsepower compared
> with 2005 models.[/color]

Hachiroku, 3/15/2006, 9:55:20 AM, <sVVRf.1859$Vb.1570@trndny01> wrote:
[color=blue]
> Sorry, BGM, when was your first clue?[/color]

I never bought a Toyota expecting it to outrace other similarly sized
cars. I bought them because they were smoother, quieter, and built
with more quality craftsmanship than other cars I had owned. My first
Toyota was a 94 Camry with 60K miles on it and it was way more polished
than the new cars I was looking at then.

Or you can use a chain like Nissan does in many of their engines and
never have to worry about a belt.

Nirav

Now, perhaps.
Check out the Recall for the 1989 240SX.
The 1990 had the same exact problem and was NOT issued a recall! At about
110,000 it was an out-of-your pocket repair, to the tune of $800.

Just the amount I sold mine for...

"njmodi" <njmodi2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1142437419.990693.238130@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> Or you can use a chain like Nissan does in many of their engines and
> never have to worry about a belt.
>
> Nirav
>[/color]

On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 09:51:35 -0500, "D.D. Pallmer"
<ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>No one really gives a crap. What they give a crap about is that an 8 year
>old HonToy has less defects than a 3 year old Ford. And that the vehicles
>have resale value while GM/Ford only have salvage value.[/color]

Sure works for me and my '92 Corolla Wagon......LOL


--

Scott in Florida

1989? C'mon, we could talk about Edsel's too. Let's stick to modern times.


"hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote in message
news:QdYRf.464$Wb.344@trndny06...[color=blue]
> Now, perhaps.
> Check out the Recall for the 1989 240SX.
> The 1990 had the same exact problem and was NOT issued a recall! At about
> 110,000 it was an out-of-your pocket repair, to the tune of $800.
>
> Just the amount I sold mine for...
>
> "njmodi" <njmodi2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1142437419.990693.238130@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=green]
>> Or you can use a chain like Nissan does in many of their engines and
>> never have to worry about a belt.
>>
>> Nirav
>>[/color]
>
>[/color]

"D.D. Pallmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:_5KdnUVG8JPDxoXZRVn-jg@comcast.com...[color=blue]
> 1989? C'mon, we could talk about Edsel's too. Let's stick to modern times.[/color]

Note the Disclaimer:[color=blue][color=green]
>> Now, perhaps.[/color][/color]

What's also a bit of a moot point is that most manufacturer's have alread
gone back to chains.
So, the whole belt thing in the first place goes back 3-5 years.
And what's not 'modern' about the 2.4l engine in the 240SX.
Very little has changed since it was introduced. The biggest difference (on
cars or trucks where it is still in use) is a twin-cam design (instead of
the SOHC/3 valves per cylinder) with a...you guessed it: belt.
Most of the 'modern' differences occur in the ECU, not in the engine itself.


[color=blue]
>
>
> "hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote in message
> news:QdYRf.464$Wb.344@trndny06...[color=green]
>> Now, perhaps.
>> Check out the Recall for the 1989 240SX.
>> The 1990 had the same exact problem and was NOT issued a recall! At about
>> 110,000 it was an out-of-your pocket repair, to the tune of $800.
>>
>> Just the amount I sold mine for...
>>
>> "njmodi" <njmodi2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1142437419.990693.238130@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=darkred]
>>> Or you can use a chain like Nissan does in many of their engines and
>>> never have to worry about a belt.
>>>
>>> Nirav
>>>[/color]
>>
>>[/color]
>
>[/color]

njmodi wrote:
[color=blue]
> Or you can use a chain like Nissan does in many of their engines and
> never have to worry about a belt.
>
> Nirav[/color]

Most if not all Toyota and Honda 4-bangers currently in production are
chain-driven.

Thats good to know. I don't follow most manufacturers as closely as I
do Nissan. I have both a Nissan and a Toyota. I have no complaints
about either. The Toyota is a 97 Corolla and the Nissan is a 96
Maxima. The VQ is a marevellous engine and has a reputation for being
bullet-proof. The 7AFE 1.8L engine in the Corolla has been wonderful
as well.

Belt replacement is a relatively minor issue IMHO - my local Toyota
dealer does it for $199 and given that the Corolla is driven lightly,
that amounts to a 6-7yr replacement interval for me - so it's not a
concern whatsoever.

Back to the topic on hand - at the end of the day, the slight decrease
in ratings via the new SAE measurement is hardly anything to get overly
concerned about. IMHO HP numbers should be one of the lesser factors
considered when comparing two competing vehicles, e.g. Accord vs. Camry
vs Altima (just an example). The exception is when you are comparing
what are supposed to be "performance vehicles" and the HP one of the
most important selling points (e.g. the whole Mustang HP rating
fiasco).

Just my 2 cents ;)

Nirav

Have I not been telling you, for some time, that Toyotas are generally
overpriced and under powered? ;)


mike hunt


"badgolferman" <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:xn0ejr4l02eefaa000@news.readfreenews.net...[color=blue]
> [url]http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060313/AUTO01/603130[/url]
> 350/1148
>
> It turns out Toyota Motor Corp. isn't as strong as it appears in at
> least one area -- under the hood.
>
> Testing under stricter new horsepower standards reveals that most of
> the models in Toyota's lineup have less oomph than the company has
> advertised. Even though the engines are unchanged, the automaker had to
> lower the horsepower ratings on all but few 2006 Toyota, Lexus and
> Scion models. The reductions range from 4 to 20 horsepower compared
> with 2005 models.[/color]

You forgot to say in my opinion ;)


mike


"D.D. Pallmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:w6adnTLFz_HntIXZnZ2dnUVZ_tednZ2d@comcast.com...[color=blue]
> No one really gives a crap. What they give a crap about is that an 8 year
> old HonToy has less defects than a 3 year old Ford. And that the vehicles
> have resale value while GM/Ford only have salvage value.
>
>
> "badgolferman" <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:xn0ejr4l02eefaa000@news.readfreenews.net...[color=green]
>> [url]http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060313/AUTO01/603130[/url]
>> 350/1148
>>
>> It turns out Toyota Motor Corp. isn't as strong as it appears in at
>> least one area -- under the hood.
>>
>> Testing under stricter new horsepower standards reveals that most of
>> the models in Toyota's lineup have less oomph than the company has
>> advertised. Even though the engines are unchanged, the automaker had to
>> lower the horsepower ratings on all but few 2006 Toyota, Lexus and
>> Scion models. The reductions range from 4 to 20 horsepower compared
>> with 2005 models.[/color]
>
>[/color]

One should prefer some torque, so the vehicle can get out of its own way
when needed. What good is HP if one needs to wind up the engine to get to
it and then there is no torque left to do the work when you need it? ;)


mike hunt


"Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.GTS> wrote in message
news:sVVRf.1859$Vb.1570@trndny01...[color=blue]
> Sorry, BGM, when was your first clue?
>
> But, even the Honda engines, which generally do porduce more HP than a
> similar sized Toyota engine do so at a price.
> Honda, Nissan, Mazda and Subaru squeeze some extra HP at the cost of an
> Interference head.
> Very few Toyotas have Interference heads.
> I'll give up 15 HP for not having to replace the top end and maybe a
> couple pistons if the belt blows.
>
>
> "badgolferman" <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:xn0ejr4l02eefaa000@news.readfreenews.net...[color=green]
>> [url]http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060313/AUTO01/603130[/url]
>> 350/1148
>>
>> It turns out Toyota Motor Corp. isn't as strong as it appears in at
>> least one area -- under the hood.
>>
>> Testing under stricter new horsepower standards reveals that most of
>> the models in Toyota's lineup have less oomph than the company has
>> advertised. Even though the engines are unchanged, the automaker had to
>> lower the horsepower ratings on all but few 2006 Toyota, Lexus and
>> Scion models. The reductions range from 4 to 20 horsepower compared
>> with 2005 models.[/color]
>
>[/color]

Why would you want to polish a new car anyway?


mike


"badgolferman" <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:xn0ejr9t52lj5tm006@news.readfreenews.net...[color=blue]
> Hachiroku, 3/15/2006, 9:55:20 AM, <sVVRf.1859$Vb.1570@trndny01> wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Sorry, BGM, when was your first clue?[/color]
>
> I never bought a Toyota expecting it to outrace other similarly sized
> cars. I bought them because they were smoother, quieter, and built
> with more quality craftsmanship than other cars I had owned. My first
> Toyota was a 94 Camry with 60K miles on it and it was way more polished
> than the new cars I was looking at then.[/color]