Horsepower cuts embarass Asians

Is that new Honda or Toyota less powerful than last years model?
Well, yes, and no. The engines in the new models don't make
any less power than last year's engines, even though the numbers
on the specification page are lower. Its just that the
Asians have been caught playing the loopholes in the standards,
putting in premium gas for horsepower testing while rating
annual fuel cost based on regular, tweaking engine controls to
non-standard settings, and turning off accessories.

[url]http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060313/AUTO01/603130350[/url]

Despite the blatant deception, analysts don't expect the kind of
backlash against Honda and Toyota that plagued Hyundai several
years ago. After being caught redhanded overstating horsepower,
Hyundai paid cash compensation to over 800,000 owners. "Honda
and Toyota owners aren't like that", said Joseph Camel of the
Brand Research Institute. "They're pretty docile owner groups.
After all, they bought the idea that its normal maintenance to
automatically replace water pumps at 75,000 miles.

Meanwhile, Honda is proposing a new "Effective Horsepower"
rating system. "We intended our horsepower ratings to simulate
effective horsepower when the vehicles are five years old. Our
vehicles lose an average of 46 pounds by that age, meaning
better performance" said Honda spokesman Kor Oshon.

Toyota, however, is a hesitant supporter, saying Honda's version
of Effective Horsepower penalizes it. Studies show that at
age five, the average Toyota loses only 32 pounds due to rust.

Meanwhile, Mitsubishi wants an adjustment for the lower weight
of its cars due to parts that fall off within five years. But
Nissan wants no part of the Effective Horsepower program, claiming
rust is a localized problem, only occurring in the snow belt,
near ocean areas, and in places where it rains.

None of the GM and Ford engines that have been tested have shown
power losses. Some have shown power gains. For those who
critcize Detroit for being stupid, one thing is clear: at least
they're smart enough not to lie.

On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:29:46 GMT, Comments4u
<comments4u@nospam.mindspring.com.invalid> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Nissan wants no part of the Effective Horsepower program, claiming
>rust is a localized problem, only occurring in the snow belt,
>near ocean areas, and in places where it rains.[/color]

So, um, where is it that cars do NOT rust?
[color=blue]
>None of the GM and Ford engines that have been tested have shown
>power losses. Some have shown power gains. For those who
>critcize Detroit for being stupid, one thing is clear: at least
>they're smart enough not to lie.[/color]

Actually, Mazda (which is owned by Ford) did something similar when
they introduced the RX-8, downrating its horsepower to 238 and
offering to buy back vehciles from anyone who felt ripped off. And
don't forget the big debacle over the 1999 Cobra, which was discovered
after owners tested their cars on dynamometers. Ford took so long to
find a fix that they cancelled production on the 2000 Cobras. They
eventually had to replace exhaust systems and other parts in every
1999 Cobra they produced in order to actually achieve the advertised
horsepower.
--
What the heck, I'll play too.
- Dave

Comments4u wrote:
<snip mindless trolling>

your headers say it all there guy.

<snip>
Organization: Usenet Education and Entertainment Bureau
<snip>
Keywords: auto, lie, deception, cheating
Summary: Troll
X-Funding-Provided-By: The National Endowment for the Arts, Mercury
Outboards, and your local PBS Television Station
<snip>

detroit is quite capable of shooting itself in the foot without your help.

"Scott en Aztlán" <scottenaztlan@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:eauq12daod863v59037lqtfikof4n1gp6j@4ax.com...[color=blue]
>
> So, um, where is it that cars do NOT rust?
>[/color]
Arizona, for one. Rust is unknown in the Phoenix area except in cars brought
in from areas where roads are salted.

Mike

On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:29:46 +0000, Comments4u wrote:
[color=blue]
> Meanwhile, Honda is proposing a new "Effective Horsepower"
> rating system. "We intended our horsepower ratings to simulate
> effective horsepower when the vehicles are five years old. Our
> vehicles lose an average of 46 pounds by that age, meaning
> better performance" said Honda spokesman Kor Oshon.[/color]

LOL. Yeah, right. April Fool's day is still a couple weeks off, dorky.

From [url]www.detroitnews.com?[/url] Pure propaganda! Like American
manufacturers haven't been doing this?

Ken

Comments4u wrote:[color=blue]
> Is that new Honda or Toyota less powerful than last years model?
> Well, yes, and no. The engines in the new models don't make
> any less power than last year's engines, even though the numbers
> on the specification page are lower. Its just that the
> Asians have been caught playing the loopholes in the standards,
> putting in premium gas for horsepower testing while rating
> annual fuel cost based on regular, tweaking engine controls to
> non-standard settings, and turning off accessories.
>
> [url]http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060313/AUTO01/603130350[/url]
>
> Despite the blatant deception, analysts don't expect the kind of
> backlash against Honda and Toyota that plagued Hyundai several
> years ago. After being caught redhanded overstating horsepower,
> Hyundai paid cash compensation to over 800,000 owners. "Honda
> and Toyota owners aren't like that", said Joseph Camel of the
> Brand Research Institute. "They're pretty docile owner groups.
> After all, they bought the idea that its normal maintenance to
> automatically replace water pumps at 75,000 miles.
>
> Meanwhile, Honda is proposing a new "Effective Horsepower"
> rating system. "We intended our horsepower ratings to simulate
> effective horsepower when the vehicles are five years old. Our
> vehicles lose an average of 46 pounds by that age, meaning
> better performance" said Honda spokesman Kor Oshon.
>
> Toyota, however, is a hesitant supporter, saying Honda's version
> of Effective Horsepower penalizes it. Studies show that at
> age five, the average Toyota loses only 32 pounds due to rust.
>
> Meanwhile, Mitsubishi wants an adjustment for the lower weight
> of its cars due to parts that fall off within five years. But
> Nissan wants no part of the Effective Horsepower program, claiming
> rust is a localized problem, only occurring in the snow belt,
> near ocean areas, and in places where it rains.
>
> None of the GM and Ford engines that have been tested have shown
> power losses. Some have shown power gains. For those who
> critcize Detroit for being stupid, one thing is clear: at least
> they're smart enough not to lie.[/color]

Waiving the right to remain silent, "Michael Pardee"
<michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> said:
[color=blue]
> "Scott en Aztl*n" <scottenaztlan@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:eauq12daod863v59037lqtfikof4n1gp6j@4ax.com...[color=green]
>>
>> So, um, where is it that cars do NOT rust?
>>[/color]
> Arizona, for one. Rust is unknown in the Phoenix area except in
> cars brought in from areas where roads are salted.[/color]

Near Tucson, (and in nearby California deserts) there are a couple of
airplane graveyards, where thousands of planes sit, virtually rust-
free.

--
Larry J. - Remove spamtrap in ALLCAPS to e-mail

"I've come here to enjoy nature. Don't talk to me
about the environment!" - 'Denny Crane'

In article <Xns978B6F1BA5A6Fthefrogprince@70.169.32.36>,
"Larry J." <usenet2@DE.LETE.THISljvideo.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
> Waiving the right to remain silent, "Michael Pardee"
> <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> said:
>[color=green]
> > "Scott en Aztl*n" <scottenaztlan@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:eauq12daod863v59037lqtfikof4n1gp6j@4ax.com...[color=darkred]
> >>
> >> So, um, where is it that cars do NOT rust?
> >>[/color]
> > Arizona, for one. Rust is unknown in the Phoenix area except in
> > cars brought in from areas where roads are salted.[/color]
>
> Near Tucson, (and in nearby California deserts) there are a couple of
> airplane graveyards, where thousands of planes sit, virtually rust-
> free.[/color]

How many of those planes are made of steel?

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling 4 feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect
if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

Alan Baker wrote:[color=blue]
> In article <Xns978B6F1BA5A6Fthefrogprince@70.169.32.36>,
> "Larry J." <usenet2@DE.LETE.THISljvideo.com> wrote:
>
>[color=green]
>>Waiving the right to remain silent, "Michael Pardee"
>><michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> said:
>>
>>[color=darkred]
>>>"Scott en Aztl n" <scottenaztlan@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>news:eauq12daod863v59037lqtfikof4n1gp6j@4ax.com...
>>>
>>>>So, um, where is it that cars do NOT rust?
>>>>
>>>
>>>Arizona, for one. Rust is unknown in the Phoenix area except in
>>>cars brought in from areas where roads are salted.[/color]
>>
>>Near Tucson, (and in nearby California deserts) there are a couple of
>>airplane graveyards, where thousands of planes sit, virtually rust-
>>free.[/color]
>
>
> How many of those planes are made of steel?
>[/color]
which part of the plane guy? almost all planes use steels in
undercarriage equipment, engine mounts, etc. some even use it for wing
spars.

but if you want to be really pedantic, there is a plane down there in
the phoenix area at the pima air museum called a budd conestoga. that
thing is /all/ steel. it's also rivetless, but that's getting too
involved...

On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 18:34:17 GMT, Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net>
wrote:
[color=blue]
>In article <Xns978B6F1BA5A6Fthefrogprince@70.169.32.36>,
> "Larry J." <usenet2@DE.LETE.THISljvideo.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Waiving the right to remain silent, "Michael Pardee"
>> <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> said:
>>[color=darkred]
>> > "Scott en Aztl*n" <scottenaztlan@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> > news:eauq12daod863v59037lqtfikof4n1gp6j@4ax.com...
>> >>
>> >> So, um, where is it that cars do NOT rust?
>> >>
>> > Arizona, for one. Rust is unknown in the Phoenix area except in
>> > cars brought in from areas where roads are salted.[/color]
>>
>> Near Tucson, (and in nearby California deserts) there are a couple of
>> airplane graveyards, where thousands of planes sit, virtually rust-
>> free.[/color]
>
>How many of those planes are made of steel?[/color]

That is not the issue. There was a show on TV a few weeks ago that
discussed how they spray the planes with something like an inch of
some chemical, that prevents all kinds of problems.

*************************
Dave

DTJ wrote:[color=blue]
> On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 18:34:17 GMT, Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net>
> wrote:
>
>[color=green]
>>In article <Xns978B6F1BA5A6Fthefrogprince@70.169.32.36>,
>>"Larry J." <usenet2@DE.LETE.THISljvideo.com> wrote:
>>
>>[color=darkred]
>>>Waiving the right to remain silent, "Michael Pardee"
>>><michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> said:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Scott en Aztl n" <scottenaztlan@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:eauq12daod863v59037lqtfikof4n1gp6j@4ax.com...
>>>>
>>>>>So, um, where is it that cars do NOT rust?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Arizona, for one. Rust is unknown in the Phoenix area except in
>>>>cars brought in from areas where roads are salted.
>>>
>>>Near Tucson, (and in nearby California deserts) there are a couple of
>>>airplane graveyards, where thousands of planes sit, virtually rust-
>>>free.[/color]
>>
>>How many of those planes are made of steel?[/color]
>
>
> That is not the issue. There was a show on TV a few weeks ago that
> discussed how they spray the planes with something like an inch of
> some chemical, that prevents all kinds of problems.
>
> *************************
> Dave[/color]

the cockpit canopies are screened and the engine nacelles blocked up,
but that's about it. take a vacation to tucson some time and check one
of the bone yards out for yourself.

Michael Pardee wrote:[color=blue]
> "Scott en Aztlán" <scottenaztlan@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:eauq12daod863v59037lqtfikof4n1gp6j@4ax.com...[color=green]
> >
> > So, um, where is it that cars do NOT rust?
> >[/color]
> Arizona, for one. Rust is unknown in the Phoenix area except in cars brought
> in from areas where roads are salted.
>
> Mike[/color]

It's not just the no road salt. Also the low humidity.

Are you referring to the aluminum airplanes, the canvas airplanes or the
wooden airplanes? LOL


mike hunt


"Larry J." <usenet2@DE.LETE.THISljvideo.com> wrote in message
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> So, um, where is it that cars do NOT rust?
>>>[/color]
>> Arizona, for one. Rust is unknown in the Phoenix area except in
>> cars brought in from areas where roads are salted.[/color]
>
> Near Tucson, (and in nearby California deserts) there are a couple of
> airplane graveyards, where thousands of planes sit, virtually rust-
> free.
>
> --
> Larry J. - Remove spamtrap in ALLCAPS to e-mail
>[/color]

In article <eauq12daod863v59037lqtfikof4n1gp6j@4ax.com>, Scott en Aztlán wrote:
[color=blue]
> Actually, Mazda (which is owned by Ford) did something similar when
> they introduced the RX-8, downrating its horsepower to 238 and
> offering to buy back vehciles from anyone who felt ripped off. And
> don't forget the big debacle over the 1999 Cobra, which was discovered
> after owners tested their cars on dynamometers. Ford took so long to
> find a fix that they cancelled production on the 2000 Cobras. They
> eventually had to replace exhaust systems and other parts in every
> 1999 Cobra they produced in order to actually achieve the advertised
> horsepower.[/color]

I expect very little coverage of this latest issue with the japanese
makes compared with what ford got on the '99 Cobra. Thing is the article
described actual cheating while the Cobra issue seemed more or less the
difference between prototype and production.

The import double standard assures that Ford and GM are duely punished
for such things while for the japanese makes it's some obscure mention
that is caught by a few car guys.

In article <Xns978B6F1BA5A6Fthefrogprince@70.169.32.36>, Larry J. wrote:
[color=blue]
> Near Tucson, (and in nearby California deserts) there are a couple of
> airplane graveyards, where thousands of planes sit, virtually rust-
> free.[/color]

AL corrodes to dust, it doesn't rust.