Interesting overheating problem

There is a car in the shop that is perplexing everyone at the moment,
thought I'l throw it out there for you all. It's a 93 V6 camry, about 180k
that is overheating after 20mins or so of idle and only a few minutes of
driving.
It was orignially diagnosed through a leak test as a head gasket, so
the heads were pulled and the fault was visually confirmed. New gaskets,
tstat, and the overheating still persisted.
So they looked to the radiator, which looked to be a very old
aftermarket unit, and replaced it, still overheating.
Pulled off the water pump, the impellers look fine, no wear.
So, they checked the temp at the sensor, found a steady climbing
reading up to 230F (yikes), yet a normal temp reading at the radiator.
Tested the tstat again, it's openingas it should. Shoved a hose in the
inlet pipe, and water pours out the other end, indicating that flow
through the system is normal.
Assuming he has measured and tested everthing correctly (which this guy
has a rep for doing), it's a head scratcher. If anyone knows how to fix it,
I'll mail you a Toyota arm patch.

Sounds like the water is not flowing properly. Are you sure the water
pump impeller was not loose and spinning on the shaft ? Was the system
purged of air as we all know the water pump won't pump air ?

J




qslim wrote:
[color=blue]
> There is a car in the shop that is perplexing everyone at the moment,
> thought I'l throw it out there for you all. It's a 93 V6 camry, about 180k
> that is overheating after 20mins or so of idle and only a few minutes of
> driving.
> It was orignially diagnosed through a leak test as a head gasket, so
> the heads were pulled and the fault was visually confirmed. New gaskets,
> tstat, and the overheating still persisted.
> So they looked to the radiator, which looked to be a very old
> aftermarket unit, and replaced it, still overheating.
> Pulled off the water pump, the impellers look fine, no wear.
> So, they checked the temp at the sensor, found a steady climbing
> reading up to 230F (yikes), yet a normal temp reading at the radiator.
> Tested the tstat again, it's openingas it should. Shoved a hose in the
> inlet pipe, and water pours out the other end, indicating that flow
> through the system is normal.
> Assuming he has measured and tested everthing correctly (which this guy
> has a rep for doing), it's a head scratcher. If anyone knows how to fix it,
> I'll mail you a Toyota arm patch.
>[/color]

Sounds like my issue with my 2002 VW Passat:

1-Engine overheated at highway speed. Fine at idle. 24k mi First dealer
could not find problem (?) 80 miles from home.

2-Five miles later, engine overheated. 24k mi Second dealer located and
replaced failed water pump. 70 miles from home.

3-Water pump leaked, engine overheated. Third dealer fixed leak by
tightening bolts.

4-Loss of coolant Third dealer replaced torn gasket.

Anybody here work for VW or a dealer ? Am I crazy or what ?

My wife had a 1985 Jetta. The heater core failed in 1989 and VW repaired it
out of warranty.
1985 Jetta motor mounts failed, 105k mi, covered out of warranty.
I had a 1991 Acura, radiator cracked out of warranty, replaced free by
Acura.

Now, after 4 (FOUR), 3 new,VWs that we have owned collectively they would
not replace a blown vacuum hose 1,000 miles out of warranty.

To make it worse, on our current 2002 Passat, they tried hard not to
replace a CV boot that was seriously cracked, but had not failed, with 500
miles left on the warranty. After being frustrated by the dealers scripted,
emotionless warranty guy I raised my voice. Still no response. I called
VWoA, "up to the dealer" Called dealer, up to VWoA, asked for GM who refered
me to service head. Finally git them to agree to fix it after threatening to
drive a tight full lock circle in front of the dealership, with a sign,
until it failed.

VW's customer support has gone down the tubes.

My 2002 Passat warranty issues:

1. Monsoon radio failed. 5k mi.
2. Monsoon radio failed. 12 k mi
3. Sunroof leaked. 18 k mi
4. Ignition coils replaced 19k mi
5. Engine overheated at highway speed. Fine at idle. 24k mi First dealer
could not find problem (?) 80 miles from home
6. Five miles later, engine overheated. 24k mi Second dealer located and
replaced failed water pump. 70 miles from home.
7. Water pump leaked, engine overheated. Third dealer fixed leak by
tightening bolts.
8. Loss of coolant Third dealer replaced torn gasket.
9 Bad vacuum hose, 40k miles
10. Cracked and blown out CV boots. 49,500 miles They tried hard not to
replace the one that was severly cracked.
11. Failed vacuum hose 51,000 miles NOT COVERED !

No Goodwill = NO RETURN BUSINESS.

I have all records to indicate that the car has been properly maintained.




"qslim" <Suckers@suckersdotcom> wrote in message
news:c2cd97057f48a76fcaa616bc04cec1c3@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...[color=blue]
> There is a car in the shop that is perplexing everyone at the moment,
> thought I'l throw it out there for you all. It's a 93 V6 camry, about 180k
> that is overheating after 20mins or so of idle and only a few minutes of
> driving.
> It was orignially diagnosed through a leak test as a head gasket, so
> the heads were pulled and the fault was visually confirmed. New gaskets,
> tstat, and the overheating still persisted.
> So they looked to the radiator, which looked to be a very old
> aftermarket unit, and replaced it, still overheating.
> Pulled off the water pump, the impellers look fine, no wear.
> So, they checked the temp at the sensor, found a steady climbing
> reading up to 230F (yikes), yet a normal temp reading at the radiator.
> Tested the tstat again, it's openingas it should. Shoved a hose in the
> inlet pipe, and water pours out the other end, indicating that flow
> through the system is normal.
> Assuming he has measured and tested everthing correctly (which this guy
> has a rep for doing), it's a head scratcher. If anyone knows how to fix[/color]
it,[color=blue]
> I'll mail you a Toyota arm patch.
>[/color]

"qslim" <Suckers@suckersdotcom> wrote in message
news:c2cd97057f48a76fcaa616bc04cec1c3@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...[color=blue]
> There is a car in the shop that is perplexing everyone at the moment,
> thought I'l throw it out there for you all. It's a 93 V6 camry, about 180k
> that is overheating after 20mins or so of idle and only a few minutes of
> driving.
> It was orignially diagnosed through a leak test as a head gasket, so
> the heads were pulled and the fault was visually confirmed. New gaskets,
> tstat, and the overheating still persisted.
> So they looked to the radiator, which looked to be a very old
> aftermarket unit, and replaced it, still overheating.
> Pulled off the water pump, the impellers look fine, no wear.
> So, they checked the temp at the sensor, found a steady climbing
> reading up to 230F (yikes), yet a normal temp reading at the radiator.
> Tested the tstat again, it's openingas it should. Shoved a hose in the
> inlet pipe, and water pours out the other end, indicating that flow
> through the system is normal.
> Assuming he has measured and tested everthing correctly (which this guy
> has a rep for doing), it's a head scratcher. If anyone knows how to fix
> it,
> I'll mail you a Toyota arm patch.
>[/color]

It has been a long time since I've tried to fix a car that a master tech
couldn't fix ;-)

First, I'll assume that all the basics have been checked - cooling fans
operate properly (sounds like they do if radiator temp is normal), cooling
fan shrouds are in place, air purged from system, etc. Are proper spark
plugs installed and ignition timing correct? Are there any restrictions in
the exhaust?

It sounds like the coolant is not circulating or something is making the
coolant really hot in the block. Do you have a way to circulate the coolant
like one of those drill-operated in-line pumps and see of the problem goes
away? If you can circulate the coolant and the problem goes away, then the
water pump is suspect - perhaps the pulley is slipping on the shaft or
something crazy.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

WHY do you keep buying these things?!?!?!
I bought my wife a brand-new '85 Jetta.
After 2 years, I had 5 times the work orders that I had on a six-year old
Corolla!
We traded it for another Corolla and never looked at a European car again.
When we got rid of her Corolla, we moved up to an Accord. Again, No Problem.
VWs have the looks and the performance, but they should have them assembled
in Japan, using Japanese parts.


"Steve ." <h90943@hotmail.commie> wrote in message
news:12242p5dngp8485@corp.supernews.com...[color=blue]
> Sounds like my issue with my 2002 VW Passat:
>
> 1-Engine overheated at highway speed. Fine at idle. 24k mi First dealer
> could not find problem (?) 80 miles from home.
>
> 2-Five miles later, engine overheated. 24k mi Second dealer located and
> replaced failed water pump. 70 miles from home.
>
> 3-Water pump leaked, engine overheated. Third dealer fixed leak by
> tightening bolts.
>
> 4-Loss of coolant Third dealer replaced torn gasket.
>
> Anybody here work for VW or a dealer ? Am I crazy or what ?
>
> My wife had a 1985 Jetta. The heater core failed in 1989 and VW repaired
> it
> out of warranty.
> 1985 Jetta motor mounts failed, 105k mi, covered out of warranty.
> I had a 1991 Acura, radiator cracked out of warranty, replaced free by
> Acura.
>
> Now, after 4 (FOUR), 3 new,VWs that we have owned collectively they would
> not replace a blown vacuum hose 1,000 miles out of warranty.
>
> To make it worse, on our current 2002 Passat, they tried hard not to
> replace a CV boot that was seriously cracked, but had not failed, with 500
> miles left on the warranty. After being frustrated by the dealers
> scripted,
> emotionless warranty guy I raised my voice. Still no response. I called
> VWoA, "up to the dealer" Called dealer, up to VWoA, asked for GM who
> refered
> me to service head. Finally git them to agree to fix it after threatening
> to
> drive a tight full lock circle in front of the dealership, with a sign,
> until it failed.
>
> VW's customer support has gone down the tubes.
>
> My 2002 Passat warranty issues:
>
> 1. Monsoon radio failed. 5k mi.
> 2. Monsoon radio failed. 12 k mi
> 3. Sunroof leaked. 18 k mi
> 4. Ignition coils replaced 19k mi
> 5. Engine overheated at highway speed. Fine at idle. 24k mi First dealer
> could not find problem (?) 80 miles from home
> 6. Five miles later, engine overheated. 24k mi Second dealer located and
> replaced failed water pump. 70 miles from home.
> 7. Water pump leaked, engine overheated. Third dealer fixed leak by
> tightening bolts.
> 8. Loss of coolant Third dealer replaced torn gasket.
> 9 Bad vacuum hose, 40k miles
> 10. Cracked and blown out CV boots. 49,500 miles They tried hard not to
> replace the one that was severly cracked.
> 11. Failed vacuum hose 51,000 miles NOT COVERED !
>
> No Goodwill = NO RETURN BUSINESS.
>
> I have all records to indicate that the car has been properly maintained.
>
>
>
>
> "qslim" <Suckers@suckersdotcom> wrote in message
> news:c2cd97057f48a76fcaa616bc04cec1c3@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...[color=green]
>> There is a car in the shop that is perplexing everyone at the moment,
>> thought I'l throw it out there for you all. It's a 93 V6 camry, about
>> 180k
>> that is overheating after 20mins or so of idle and only a few minutes of
>> driving.
>> It was orignially diagnosed through a leak test as a head gasket, so
>> the heads were pulled and the fault was visually confirmed. New gaskets,
>> tstat, and the overheating still persisted.
>> So they looked to the radiator, which looked to be a very old
>> aftermarket unit, and replaced it, still overheating.
>> Pulled off the water pump, the impellers look fine, no wear.
>> So, they checked the temp at the sensor, found a steady climbing
>> reading up to 230F (yikes), yet a normal temp reading at the radiator.
>> Tested the tstat again, it's openingas it should. Shoved a hose in the
>> inlet pipe, and water pours out the other end, indicating that flow
>> through the system is normal.
>> Assuming he has measured and tested everthing correctly (which this
>> guy
>> has a rep for doing), it's a head scratcher. If anyone knows how to fix[/color]
> it,[color=green]
>> I'll mail you a Toyota arm patch.
>>[/color]
>
>[/color]

We fixed it today. Turns out a small piece of rubber from the aftermarket
radiator cap (we suspect) was in the right place at the wrong time.
Blasted about 100 gallons of water through the engine from the
high-pressure water line the cleanup dept uses, and the little bastard
finally showed up.

On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 21:38:21 -0500, "qslim" <Suckers@suckersdotcom>
wrote:
[color=blue]
>We fixed it today. Turns out a small piece of rubber from the aftermarket
>radiator cap (we suspect) was in the right place at the wrong time.
>Blasted about 100 gallons of water through the engine from the
>high-pressure water line the cleanup dept uses, and the little bastard
>finally showed up.[/color]

Geat!!!!!!!

The lesson is obvious!

DO NOT USE AFTER MARKET PARTS IN YOUR TOY!

--

Scott in Florida

"qslim" <Suckers@suckersdotcom> wrote in message
news:6190a4aaef1fdf72c97dbf14a70e0489@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...[color=blue]
> We fixed it today. Turns out a small piece of rubber from the aftermarket
> radiator cap (we suspect) was in the right place at the wrong time.
> Blasted about 100 gallons of water through the engine from the
> high-pressure water line the cleanup dept uses, and the little bastard
> finally showed up.
>[/color]

Well, I was half right that the coolant wasn't circulating - not that it
took a rocket scientist to figure that part of it out.

Thanks for reporting your results!
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

Dunno exactly where it was. It certainly wasn't big enough to completely
restrict flow. It was probably in a very specific place that restricted
flow enough to build heat in a certain spot yet still allow some return to
the radiator. Wierd.