Re: engine oil, warming up the car

Hard to believe, but true -- "Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.GTS> typed:
[color=blue]
>"Don't let the door slap your ass on the way out".[/color]

Good advice; I'll be sure to remember it.
[color=blue]
>Troll.[/color]

Hmmmm . . . more name calling. I could be a troll, but your definition
must vary from mine. I came to this thread, saw some misinformation,
and pointed it out. Doesn't sound trollish to me . . . .
[color=blue][color=green]
>> I'll see your 30 years and raise you another 5 or 6. And although my
>> cars don't add up to more than about 200,000[/color][/color]

[color=blue]
>Then I guess your method work real well.[/color]

Yes, my method does work. Very well. It saves gasoline and unnecessary
wear on the engine. A three-second warmup at idle is preferred to a
three-minute warmup at idle whenever conditions allow; a shorter
warmup time before driving gently away is preferred . . . . as a rule.

I certainly can't imagine adding three minutes to my daily commute. I
go ten miles to and ten miles from work, about 20 minutes each way.
That extra three minutes is more than TEN percent, and at a time when
the engine is running at its least efficiency. No thanx.
[color=blue]
>Read again, NitWit.[/color]

Even MORE name calling? I thought this newsgroup was supposed to be
for rational discourse about Toyotas specifically and cars in general
(OT political rants excepted, of course ;^)
[color=blue]
>Over 250,000 PER CAR, on 5 cars.
>Please, try to keep up.[/color]

Cawabunga, dude; that's over a MILLION MILES!

-->>>WE ARE NOT WORTHY<<<--
[color=blue]
>If you can't:[/color]

[color=blue]
>"Don't let the door slap your ass on the way out".[/color]

Good advice (albeit repetitive); I'll be sure to remember it.
[color=blue]
>Bye Bye now![/color]

S'long . . . .
[color=blue]
>PLONK![/color]

Oh. I guess that means you won't read this. Bummer, man. Oh well; your
loss.

-Don
--
"Ladies and gentlemen take my advice.
Pull down your pants and slide on the ice."

-- Sidney Freedman

Hard to believe, but true -- Scott in Florida <MoveOn@outa.here>
typed:
[color=blue]
>On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:14:16 GMT, "Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.GTS> wrote:[/color]
[snip happens][color=blue][color=green]
>>Please, try to keep up. If you can't:
>>
>>"Don't let the door slap your ass on the way out".
>>
>>Bye Bye now!
>>
>>PLONK!
>>[/color]
>
>LOL...
>
>You go Hacki![/color]

I guess he told me! Ah well, there are worse things than being plonk'd
in a newsgroup . . . .

-D

--
"Ladies and gentlemen take my advice.
Pull down your pants and slide on the ice."

-- Sidney Freedman

Hard to believe, but true -- "Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.GTS> typed:

[color=blue]
>LOL! I suppose next he tells me that washing and waxing my cars every 3
>months isn't the reason why they go 15 or more years in New England without
>rusting, too.[/color]

<CHORTLE>

As a matter of fact, now that you mention it . . . .

Wouldn't the fact that modern cars are much less prone to rusting than
cars of yore have a lot to do with it too?

I had a '73 Datsun 240Z that I bought when it was three or four years
old. I washed that car *religiously* and it never showed a bit of rust
during the four years or thereabouts that I owned it. A couple of
years ago I asked the next owner who had it what ever happened to it
and he said it dissolved from salt in about two years after he got it.
He wasn't too happy about that, but he drove it in the winter on our
heavily salted MN roads and didn't keep up with the washing.

I'd LOVE to have another Z-car, but . . . I think modern cars are much
better in most regards -- especially their better rust resistance.
[color=blue]
>Quite a gracious person, isn't he?[/color]

Moi? I try to be. Not always successfully though. I've got a
curmudgeon streak about a mile wide; I wonder what I'll be like when
I'm OLD!

-Don (52 and climbing)
--
"Ladies and gentlemen take my advice.
Pull down your pants and slide on the ice."

-- Sidney Freedman

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 18:23:42 -0600, Don Fearn wrote:
[color=blue]
> Hard to believe, but true -- "Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.GTS> typed:
>[color=green]
>>"Don't let the door slap your ass on the way out".[/color]
>
> Good advice; I'll be sure to remember it.[/color]

That would serve you well.[color=blue]
>[color=green]
>>Troll.[/color]
>
> Hmmmm . . . more name calling. I could be a troll, but your definition
> must vary from mine. I came to this thread, saw some misinformation,
> and pointed it out. Doesn't sound trollish to me . . . .[/color]

Hmmm...misinformation? I didn't see any.
And one question...how much gas does sitting for three minutes waste?
I'd rather have a properly warm engine that worn out rings.
Ask almost any '91-93 Tercel owner.
[color=blue]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> I'll see your 30 years and raise you another 5 or 6. And although my
>>> cars don't add up to more than about 200,000[/color][/color]
>
>[color=green]
>>Then I guess your method work real well.[/color]
>
> Yes, my method does work. Very well. It saves gasoline and unnecessary
> wear on the engine. A three-second warmup at idle is preferred to a
> three-minute warmup at idle whenever conditions allow; a shorter
> warmup time before driving gently away is preferred . . . . as a rule.[/color]

Operating temp of an engine is close to 180 degrees. In a water cooled
engine, tolerances are a lot cloer than an air cooled engine, but still
relies on operating temperature to ensure proper mating of all surfaces.

I don't even treat my '92 Grand Voyager with a broken rocker tower they
way you're talking. Three minutes is not excessive and takes what, a pint
of gas?
[color=blue]
>
> I certainly can't imagine adding three minutes to my daily commute. I
> go ten miles to and ten miles from work, about 20 minutes each way.
> That extra three minutes is more than TEN percent, and at a time when
> the engine is running at its least efficiency. No thanx.[/color]

I go 35 miles. From 1987 to 1998 I drove 58 miles. ONE WAY. So, before I
get on the highway at 75, I want to make sure the cylinders and the
pistons and rings are all nice and friendly with each other. As I said,
about 1.3 million miles, and I have never had to rebuild an engine. Last
time I did a compression check on my '85 Corolla, they were all between
118-124 PSI.

I'll live with that.
[color=blue]
>[color=green]
>>Read again, NitWit.[/color]
>
> Even MORE name calling? I thought this newsgroup was supposed to be
> for rational discourse about Toyotas specifically and cars in general
> (OT political rants excepted, of course ;^)[/color]

I don't like being patronized. Cut it out and we'll rag on the political
buffoon of our choice, 'K?>
[color=blue]
>[color=green]
>>Over 250,000 PER CAR, on 5 cars.
>>Please, try to keep up.[/color]
>
> Cawabunga, dude; that's over a MILLION MILES![/color]

See above. Last time I counted it was 1.3. That's to the moon and back 4
1/2 times. And that was almost 10 years ago. I've chilled since then. Now
I only drive about 500 miles a week.
[color=blue]
>
> -->>>WE ARE NOT WORTHY<<<--[/color]

Well, I don't know. Let me think about it.
[color=blue]
>[color=green]
>>If you can't:[/color]
>
>[color=green]
>>"Don't let the door slap your ass on the way out".[/color]
>
> Good advice (albeit repetitive); I'll be sure to remember it.[/color]

Bear it on the back burner.
[color=blue]
>[color=green]
>>Bye Bye now![/color]
>
> S'long . . . .
>[color=green]
>>PLONK![/color]
>
> Oh. I guess that means you won't read this. Bummer, man. Oh well; your
> loss.
>
> -Don[/color]

Well, loss? Hmmm...let me think. Perhaps.
Besides, that was on my machine at work. I figured I'd check it out before
I plonked you at home. I was in a funky mood this morning.

But, I don't like being patronized. I heard or read a long time ago, three
minute warm up. I have lived with it since.

Yaeh, man, 1 million miles. On about 8 cars. Some only got 30-50,000 on
them (before idiots not paying attention did them in), and a couple of
them bore the brunt of the mileage. The last one before this one got
230,000 miles, my GTS has 260,000, and there have been 2 others around
220,000. Bought them all brand new, warmed them up three to five minutes
before letting out the clutch. Oh, and I have never replaced a clutch in
my life, either. Ever.

--
In the grand scheme fo things...
What difference does it make?

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 18:33:51 -0600, Don Fearn wrote:
[color=blue]
> Hard to believe, but true -- "Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.GTS> typed:
>
>[color=green]
>>LOL! I suppose next he tells me that washing and waxing my cars every 3
>>months isn't the reason why they go 15 or more years in New England without
>>rusting, too.[/color]
>
> <CHORTLE>
>
> As a matter of fact, now that you mention it . . . .
>
> Wouldn't the fact that modern cars are much less prone to rusting than
> cars of yore have a lot to do with it too?
>
> I had a '73 Datsun 240Z that I bought when it was three or four years
> old. I washed that car *religiously* and it never showed a bit of rust
> during the four years or thereabouts that I owned it. A couple of
> years ago I asked the next owner who had it what ever happened to it
> and he said it dissolved from salt in about two years after he got it.
> He wasn't too happy about that, but he drove it in the winter on our
> heavily salted MN roads and didn't keep up with the washing.[/color]

There's one for sale in VT...
[color=blue]
>
> I'd LOVE to have another Z-car, but . . . I think modern cars are much
> better in most regards -- especially their better rust resistance.
>[color=green]
>>Quite a gracious person, isn't he?[/color]
>
> Moi? I try to be. Not always successfully though. I've got a
> curmudgeon streak about a mile wide; I wonder what I'll be like when
> I'm OLD!
>
> -Don (52 and climbing)[/color]

You got three years on me.

I'm surprised how little you've driven in all those years.

--
In the grand scheme fo things...
What difference does it make?

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 18:20:03 -0600, Don Fearn wrote:
[color=blue]
> Hard to believe, but true -- "Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.GTS> typed:
>[color=green]
>>Oh, and, you fail to mention. Is your motorcycle Air-Cooled, by any chance?[/color]
>
> Most of them have been. Some have been oil-cooled and I've had some
> water-cooled, too. The most automotive was my '86 BMW K75; water
> cooled with a dry clutch and shaft drive; basically a BMW car
> four-cylinder engine flopped on its side and a cylinder lopped off.
>[color=green]
>>Slight bit of a difference you may have overlooked.[/color]
>
> What difference is that?
>
> I can only think of one:
>
> For pre-Evolution Harleys (like my '56 FLH) it's recommended to let
> them idle a minute or two to allow the cylinders and heads to warm
> slowly with minimum of applied stress before riding off. If that's
> not done, the difference in expansion rates between the cast-iron
> cylinder and aluminum head can result in oil weepage through the head
> and base gaskets which will get worse over time. This is a case where
> a two or three minute rule of thumb applies.[/color]

This must be where I got it, because when I learned this I was driving
cars with iron blocks and aluminum heads.

Remember the Vega? How come Toyota could pull it off, and GM couldn't?
[color=blue]
>
> Any other engines I know of, a two or three minute idling warmup
> should be an exception rather than a rule of thumb. I can't imagine
> why I'd ever do it on a motorcycle; it's not like I'm waiting for the
> cabin to warm up and the windshield to clear off ;^)
>
> If my air-cooled motorcycle engines are exceptions, I'd be glad to
> learn about those differences. Or for other car engines too, for that
> matter . . . .
>
> -Don[/color]

You don't want to warm it up too long just sitting. Not good for an
air-cooled engine to sit very long.

I've had Rice burner Ring-Dings. Start it, idle it a minute and let 'er
rip! You were going to rebuild it anyways.

--
In the grand scheme fo things...
What difference does it make?

Don Fearn <pooder@charter.net> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Hard to believe, but true -- "Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.GTS> typed:
>[color=green]
>>Oh, and, you fail to mention. Is your motorcycle Air-Cooled, by any chance?[/color]
>
>Most of them have been. Some have been oil-cooled and I've had some
>water-cooled, too. The most automotive was my '86 BMW K75; water
>cooled with a dry clutch and shaft drive; basically a BMW car
>four-cylinder engine flopped on its side and a cylinder lopped off.
>[color=green]
>>Slight bit of a difference you may have overlooked.[/color]
>
>What difference is that?
>
>I can only think of one:
>
>For pre-Evolution Harleys (like my '56 FLH) it's recommended to let
>them idle a minute or two to allow the cylinders and heads to warm
>slowly with minimum of applied stress before riding off. If that's
>not done, the difference in expansion rates between the cast-iron
>cylinder and aluminum head can result in oil weepage through the head
>and base gaskets which will get worse over time. This is a case where
>a two or three minute rule of thumb applies.
>
>Any other engines I know of, a two or three minute idling warmup
>should be an exception rather than a rule of thumb. I can't imagine
>why I'd ever do it on a motorcycle; it's not like I'm waiting for the
>cabin to warm up and the windshield to clear off ;^)
>
>If my air-cooled motorcycle engines are exceptions, I'd be glad to
>learn about those differences. Or for other car engines too, for that
>matter . . . .
>
>-Don[/color]

I 'know' that someone's gonna bitch but large aircooled aircraft
engines specify a minimum of +150 degrees C Cylinder Head Temp
and +40 C Oil Temp prior to take off...
--

-Gord.
(use gordon in email)

Hard to believe, but true -- Hachiroku <Trueno@ae86.GTS> typed:
[color=blue]
>You got three years on me.
>
>I'm surprised how little you've driven in all those years.[/color]

I'm not. There's been no need. I've always lived close to work, so few
commuting miles. Family vacations were often local bicycle trips,
train trips, or the occasional flight somewhere (and in later years,
going by motorcycle -- I started motorcycling in my 30s); a looong
trip by car was a rarity. I'd rather walk or bicycle or motorcycle
than drive when I can . . . .

-D
--
"Ladies and gentlemen take my advice.
Pull down your pants and slide on the ice."

-- Sidney Freedman

"Gord Beaman" <gord@islandtelecom.com> wrote in message
news:ieuj22los899l51btcih6pu2rjpkc6d8vo@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> I 'know' that someone's gonna bitch but large aircooled aircraft
> engines specify a minimum of +150 degrees C Cylinder Head Temp
> and +40 C Oil Temp prior to take off...
> --
>
> -Gord.
> (use gordon in email)[/color]

That makes sense. The "drive a car to warm it up" regimen includes limiting
the revs early on. Limiting the revs isn't possible on take off.

Pat

On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 16:41:54 GMT, "Greywolf"
<greywolfin45@*spamisbad*sbcglobal.net> wrote:
[color=blue]
>"Gord Beaman" <gord@islandtelecom.com> wrote in message
>news:ieuj22los899l51btcih6pu2rjpkc6d8vo@4ax.com...[color=green]
>> I 'know' that someone's gonna bitch but large aircooled aircraft
>> engines specify a minimum of +150 degrees C Cylinder Head Temp
>> and +40 C Oil Temp prior to take off...
>> --
>>
>> -Gord.
>> (use gordon in email)[/color]
>
>That makes sense. The "drive a car to warm it up" regimen includes limiting
>the revs early on. Limiting the revs isn't possible on take off.[/color]

Revs are limited while moving from the gate to the runway for
take-off.
--
gburnore at DataBasix dot Com
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