head gasket or timing belt

This is the 3rd post in a series to diagnose an engine overheat for
those interested. I have a 1988 toyota p/u with 190K 22RE fuel
injected.
Engine overheated one day coming from work, cold air blowing in vehicle
and temp gauge nearing red. It turns out there was no/little antifreeze
in rad. At the time, no smoke from tailpipe, antifreeze in oil.

So topped all up and, unfortunately, I have lots of smoke, rough idling
and antifreeze in oil as the oil level is up and you can see some froth
under cap after I cleaned it before driving.
[color=blue]
>From the advice offered so far, seems to say head gasket so I called[/color]
toyota toyota and asked for bolts ($10 each x10 bolts wow), head gasket
about 50.00 and thermostat about 25 with gasket.

The parts person said that it is advisible to buy the set of gaskets
for 170.00 that includes, intake manifold, valve gasket with grommets,
etc. He also suggested that it could be the timing chain that if the
vehicle was making a rattling noise may have rubbed up to something.

Anyway, thinking of taking it to the toyota dealer to have it at least
diagnosed -Any thoughts?, Can I drive it there -about 10Km or should I
have it towed. Finally, can I eliminate or confirm the timing belt
issue with a compression test or other way?

Again, many thanks to all who offer their opinion

Unfortunately, it is very common with the 22re that when the Timing chain
starts to begin slack it tends to eat a hole into the inside of the timing
cover .... Check your oil pan for metallic chips and such which would
indicate rubbing.. It certainly sounds to me like a head gasket.... I
have a 94' with a 22re and it did the EXACT same thing... If your going to
replace the head gasket anyway, I would suggest that while it's torn down
you do a few preventative maintenance items which will unfortunately cost
more, but will be worth it.. Planning on doing the work yourself???? If
so, you'll be glad to replace it all at once since you HAVE to pull the head
to get to the timing chain anyway. I would suggest a new Timing
chain/Gears/Tensioner, Oil Pump, and Water Pump.. Replace the Timing cover
also if it looks heavily worn. $50 for a head gasket?? That's pretty
steep... you'd do just as well with a Fel-Pro Gasket from Napa.... and $25
for a thrermostat?? Outrageous... Get that from napa too and save yourself
another 15 bucks.. as far as the head gasket kit... Well.. some you will
need, while others you may not.. But almost always, the manifold gaskets
(intake, and exhaust) will need to be replaced.. I think last time i bought
a complete head gasket kit by Fel-Pro, I think I paid like 80 bucks from
Acme Auto....

If you were buying a sensor, or some other electrical specific part, I would
say buy factory, but gaskets are gaskets, and Fel-Pro makes a damn fine
gasket.

Ian

Toyota-holic
"gp" <gpagmail-news@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1143474519.755073.129040@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> This is the 3rd post in a series to diagnose an engine overheat for
> those interested. I have a 1988 toyota p/u with 190K 22RE fuel
> injected.
> Engine overheated one day coming from work, cold air blowing in vehicle
> and temp gauge nearing red. It turns out there was no/little antifreeze
> in rad. At the time, no smoke from tailpipe, antifreeze in oil.
>
> So topped all up and, unfortunately, I have lots of smoke, rough idling
> and antifreeze in oil as the oil level is up and you can see some froth
> under cap after I cleaned it before driving.
>[color=green]
> >From the advice offered so far, seems to say head gasket so I called[/color]
> toyota toyota and asked for bolts ($10 each x10 bolts wow), head gasket
> about 50.00 and thermostat about 25 with gasket.
>
> The parts person said that it is advisible to buy the set of gaskets
> for 170.00 that includes, intake manifold, valve gasket with grommets,
> etc. He also suggested that it could be the timing chain that if the
> vehicle was making a rattling noise may have rubbed up to something.
>
> Anyway, thinking of taking it to the toyota dealer to have it at least
> diagnosed -Any thoughts?, Can I drive it there -about 10Km or should I
> have it towed. Finally, can I eliminate or confirm the timing belt
> issue with a compression test or other way?
>
> Again, many thanks to all who offer their opinion
>[/color]

"gp" <gpagmail-news@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1143474519.755073.129040@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> This is the 3rd post in a series to diagnose an engine overheat for
> those interested. I have a 1988 toyota p/u with 190K 22RE fuel
> injected.
> Engine overheated one day coming from work, cold air blowing in vehicle
> and temp gauge nearing red. It turns out there was no/little antifreeze
> in rad. At the time, no smoke from tailpipe, antifreeze in oil.
>[/color]

To clarify: are you saying that there is no smoke from the tailpipe but
there is antifreeze in the oil?

[color=blue]
> So topped all up and, unfortunately, I have lots of smoke, rough idling
> and antifreeze in oil as the oil level is up and you can see some froth
> under cap after I cleaned it before driving.[/color]

Bad sign :-(
[color=blue]
>[color=green]
>>From the advice offered so far, seems to say head gasket so I called[/color]
> toyota toyota and asked for bolts ($10 each x10 bolts wow), head gasket
> about 50.00 and thermostat about 25 with gasket.
>
> The parts person said that it is advisible to buy the set of gaskets
> for 170.00 that includes, intake manifold, valve gasket with grommets,
> etc. He also suggested that it could be the timing chain that if the
> vehicle was making a rattling noise may have rubbed up to something.[/color]

You may hear the rattling noise from the front of the engine if the timing
chain tensioner is not working properly.
[color=blue]
>
> Anyway, thinking of taking it to the toyota dealer to have it at least
> diagnosed -Any thoughts?, Can I drive it there -about 10Km or should I
> have it towed. Finally, can I eliminate or confirm the timing belt
> issue with a compression test or other way?
>
> Again, many thanks to all who offer their opinion[/color]

Toyota dealers are probably more knowledgeable about your vehicle than most
independent shops.
Driving it 10 km should be OK as long as there is coolant and oil. BTW,
the 22RE engine has a timing chain, not a timing belt. The only way to
confirm whether the timing chain is a problem is for a knowledgeable person
to listen and remove the timing cover and inspect the chain and tensioner.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

So you think I should also change water and oil pump while I am there.
I have never done this but planning to arm myself with a manual or 2,
take my time and slowly get down to it. A little anxious about this,
worried about stripping a bolt in there as I take them out. Plan to run
the engine a bit to get warm/hot and use lots of loose nut spray. I
have done some work over the years on my car --even rebuilt some small
engines (lawnmower and stuff) so hoping this works out well. How long
do you think this will take a shop/ a first time do-it-yourselfer?


Ebay has a gasket/bolt set for 80 or so and here is the description,
not sure if better to stick with NAPA. I hear one should go OEM with
the thermostat, but wondering thoughts on gaskets/water pump/oil pump?
I tend to agree with you
This fine head gasket set fits 1985 to 1995 TOYOTA 22R, 22RE, & 22REC,
2.4L inline OHC 4 cylinder engines. The bolts are Pro-Topline, brand
NEW!These are the SAME FINE quality you have come to EXPECT from
EPN™, a Q9002 certified kit, your assurance of quality! This kit
features not only the full NEW head bolt kit, but ALL the gaskets you
will need to do a complete top end overhaul on your Toyota, intake,
exhaust, head gasket, misc gaskets, and INCLUDING the premium VITON oil
seals, even the half moon valve cover ends! As COMPLETE as you will
find! A Special feature is the graphite impregnated core head gasket,
your assurance of a perfect seal, and the premium Viton oil seals, the
same as Toyota uses! S & H adds just $12.00, international is cost of
shipping, Paypal, bank check, or MO is fine, Visa/MC via phone.

Yes, thanks for confirming that it is a chain. I have some auto club
coverage to get it towed. It sounds like while I am there, I should
change much including timing chain, etc.

Thing is, I have had it only 2 years, somewhat possible, it has been
changed. Not sure if I should spend 100$ to get it pro-diagnosed, or
open it up and see what I have got.

So far, my list includes, thermostat, chain, tensioner, many gaskets,
bolts, it has been suggested water pump, oil pump --seems like a long
list, wow!

When I had the same issue with my 94' I changed everything... The Timing
Chain on these motors are known to go about every 130,000 miles, so if it
has been changed, well it's overkill, but if it hasn't, it's piece of mind..
I changed everything except the oil pump, for reasons I cannot explain, and
turns out the oil pump had also gone bad, and ended up blowing my engine...
cost me far more to rebuild everything afterward then it would have cost to
originally just replace the oil pump..
Ian
"gp" <gpagmail-news@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1143482364.857441.164960@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> Yes, thanks for confirming that it is a chain. I have some auto club
> coverage to get it towed. It sounds like while I am there, I should
> change much including timing chain, etc.
>
> Thing is, I have had it only 2 years, somewhat possible, it has been
> changed. Not sure if I should spend 100$ to get it pro-diagnosed, or
> open it up and see what I have got.
>
> So far, my list includes, thermostat, chain, tensioner, many gaskets,
> bolts, it has been suggested water pump, oil pump --seems like a long
> list, wow!
>[/color]

Thanks, did you use dealer parts or some aftermarket. I am going with
OEM thermostat, but gaskets, some ebay resources or thinking of NAPA,
as for oil pump and chain, will decide later. I had heard that the
chain lasts longer than that but guess if I am doing it myself, i can
put the savings into some proactive measures.

I wouldn't buy a OEM Thermostat... 25 bucks is outrageous for what a
thermostat is.. I bought all my parts on ebay actually.. I did substitute
the head gasket that came with the kit though with a Fel-Pro one.. and
picked up a re-maned oil pump and water pump.. 60,000 miles on the new
motor and it is great..
Ian
"gp" <gpagmail-news@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1143557516.618812.30400@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> Thanks, did you use dealer parts or some aftermarket. I am going with
> OEM thermostat, but gaskets, some ebay resources or thinking of NAPA,
> as for oil pump and chain, will decide later. I had heard that the
> chain lasts longer than that but guess if I am doing it myself, i can
> put the savings into some proactive measures.
>[/color]

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 22:43:51 GMT, "EasyE" <ezeuconn@hotmail.com>
wrote:
[color=blue]
>I wouldn't buy a OEM Thermostat... 25 bucks is outrageous for what a
>thermostat is.. I bought all my parts on ebay actually..[/color]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah. Dumbass.
--
gburnore at DataBasix dot Com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
How you look depends on where you go.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary L. Burnore | ÝÛ³ºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³³Ýۺݳ޳ºÝ³Ý³Þ³ºÝ³ÝÝÛ³
| ÝÛ³ºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³³Ýۺݳ޳ºÝ³Ý³Þ³ºÝ³ÝÝÛ³
Official .sig, Accept no substitutes. | ÝÛ³ºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³³Ýۺݳ޳ºÝ³Ý³Þ³ºÝ³ÝÝÛ³
| ÝÛ 0 1 7 2 3 / Ý³Þ 3 7 4 9 3 0 Û³
Black Helicopter Repair Services, Ltd.| Official Proof of Purchase
===========================================================================

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 17:46:05 -0500, Gary L. Burnore
<gburnore@databasix.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 22:43:51 GMT, "EasyE" <ezeuconn@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>[color=green]
>>I wouldn't buy a OEM Thermostat... 25 bucks is outrageous for what a
>>thermostat is.. I bought all my parts on ebay actually..[/color]
>
>Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah. Dumbass.[/color]

LOL....

every once in awhile I agree with ya Gary....

--

Scott in Florida

I have been trying to tell you guys Toyota parts are much more expensive
than domestic parts. So even if they do last longer, like you guys seem to
think, you will spend more in the long run on repairs ;)

mike hunt


"Scott in Florida" <MoveOn@outa.here> wrote in message
news:onij225p88ti4s5bpv72jgl25t6qoc6g61@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 17:46:05 -0500, Gary L. Burnore
> <gburnore@databasix.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 22:43:51 GMT, "EasyE" <ezeuconn@hotmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>>I wouldn't buy a OEM Thermostat... 25 bucks is outrageous for what a
>>>thermostat is.. I bought all my parts on ebay actually..[/color]
>>
>>Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah. Dumbass.[/color]
>
> LOL....
>
> every once in awhile I agree with ya Gary....
>
> --
>
> Scott in Florida[/color]

"Gary L. Burnore" wrote:
[color=blue][color=green]
> >I wouldn't buy a OEM Thermostat... 25 bucks is outrageous for what a
> >thermostat is.. I bought all my parts on ebay actually..[/color]
>
> Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah. Dumbass.
> --
> gburnore at DataBasix dot Com[/color]

Obviously YOUR mileage has varied - with mine! Keep your expletives to
yourself. Remember to be polite - otherwise folks will think badly of uncouth
language. Got it?

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 18:53:15 -0600, Ken Pisichko <kenp@mts.net> wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>"Gary L. Burnore" wrote:
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>> >I wouldn't buy a OEM Thermostat... 25 bucks is outrageous for what a
>> >thermostat is.. I bought all my parts on ebay actually..[/color]
>>
>> Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah. Dumbass.
>> --
>> gburnore at DataBasix dot Com[/color]
>
>Obviously YOUR mileage has varied - with mine! Keep your expletives to
>yourself. Remember to be polite - otherwise folks will think badly of uncouth
>language. Got it?[/color]

So he shouldn't say FUCK YOU?

Then I will FUCK YOU!

--

Scott in Florida

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 18:53:15 -0600, Ken Pisichko <kenp@mts.net> wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>"Gary L. Burnore" wrote:
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>> >I wouldn't buy a OEM Thermostat... 25 bucks is outrageous for what a
>> >thermostat is.. I bought all my parts on ebay actually..[/color]
>>
>> Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah. Dumbass.
>> --
>> gburnore at DataBasix dot Com[/color]
>
>Obviously YOUR mileage has varied - with mine![/color]

You're likely LYING, but that's ok. You're also a fucking moron.
[color=blue]
>Keep your expletives to yourself.[/color]

Eat shit, bitch.
[color=blue]
> Remember to be polite[/color]

I am being polite, fuckstain.
--
gburnore at DataBasix dot Com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
How you look depends on where you go.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary L. Burnore | ÝÛ³ºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³³Ýۺݳ޳ºÝ³Ý³Þ³ºÝ³ÝÝÛ³
| ÝÛ³ºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³³Ýۺݳ޳ºÝ³Ý³Þ³ºÝ³ÝÝÛ³
Official .sig, Accept no substitutes. | ÝÛ³ºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³³Ýۺݳ޳ºÝ³Ý³Þ³ºÝ³ÝÝÛ³
| ÝÛ 0 1 7 2 3 / Ý³Þ 3 7 4 9 3 0 Û³
Black Helicopter Repair Services, Ltd.| Official Proof of Purchase
===========================================================================

Thanks, I may need some advice as I dig into it.

Any suggestions on Name brands for gasket sets or locations to buy
from? There are a number on ebay, ex CNS Motors. EPN™, there is
mention of GRAPHITE HADE GASKET, VITON VALVE STEM SEALS so there are a
few sets out there --any cautions? It was suggested I change the head
bolts too.


Here is another ad
This fine head gasket set fits 1985 to 1995 TOYOTA 22R, 22RE, & 22REC,
2.4L inline OHC 4 cylinder engines. The bolts are Pro-Topline, brand
NEW!

Several of you asked for a combination like this so here it is!

These are the SAME FINE quality you have come to EXPECT from EPN™, a
Q9002 certified kit, your assurance of quality!
This kit features not only the full NEW head bolt kit, but ALL the
gaskets you will need to do a complete top end overhaul on your Toyota,
intake, exhaust, head gasket, misc gaskets, and INCLUDING the premium
VITON oil seals, even the half moon valve cover ends! As COMPLETE as
you will find!

A Special feature is the graphite impregnated core head gasket, your
assurance of a perfect seal, and the premium Viton oil seals, the same
as Toyota uses!