2002 Sienna Pings

Ok, my van pings under load. The shop (Toyota in Chantilly, VA) did the
standard decarb, cleaned the throttle body, and the save the world can
of BG44k. Well of course the Van sill pings. They say use 93 Octance
and don't use Mobile, Exxon, Hess, etc. which is about every gas
station with 15 miles of my house. (BTW, Exxon was thrilled to hear
Toyota doesn't recommend their gas)

Any ideas. No engine codes, no sure if this vechile has an EGR, at
least I can't find one. The manual says 87 Octane or 93 for increased
performance (yea right).

I use 87 like all my other cars and what I used for the first 4 years
of ownership. There is no way I am paying for the 93 in a minivan. My
Nissan doesn't ping with this gas, my Ford Windstar doesn't ping with
this gas, my corrolla didn't ping with this gas, which they claim is
the problem. I had the problem for about 4+ months along with numerous
other problems not usually found on Toyotas.

Again any ideas?

Scoot

<scott_cornwell@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1144114403.050938.168060@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> Ok, my van pings under load. The shop (Toyota in Chantilly, VA) did the
> standard decarb, cleaned the throttle body, and the save the world can
> of BG44k. Well of course the Van sill pings. They say use 93 Octance
> and don't use Mobile, Exxon, Hess, etc. which is about every gas
> station with 15 miles of my house. (BTW, Exxon was thrilled to hear
> Toyota doesn't recommend their gas)
>
> Any ideas. No engine codes, no sure if this vechile has an EGR, at
> least I can't find one. The manual says 87 Octane or 93 for increased
> performance (yea right).
>
> I use 87 like all my other cars and what I used for the first 4 years
> of ownership. There is no way I am paying for the 93 in a minivan. My
> Nissan doesn't ping with this gas, my Ford Windstar doesn't ping with
> this gas, my corrolla didn't ping with this gas, which they claim is
> the problem. I had the problem for about 4+ months along with numerous
> other problems not usually found on Toyotas.
>
> Again any ideas?
>
> Scoot[/color]

How many miles are on the van? Do you know if the shop checked knock sensor
operation? When the engine is pinging, the knock sensor should send a
signal to the ECU, which in turn retards the ignition timing. If the knock
sensor is not detecting the pinging or not sending a signal, then the ECU
doesn't know about the pinging and keeps the timing advanced. If there is
no open circuit to the knock sensor, then the ECU won't know it is bad and
won't turn on the malfunction indicator light.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

I've had a number of pinging complaints in the first gen Sienna over the
years. On a few occasions we've had a Field Rep come out to inspect a few
of them, and have been told that some audible pinging in the Sienna is
normal. For whatever reason, be it the shape of the engine compartment or
cowl, the Sienna is just louder than the other 1MZ vehicles.

I'm having the same issue with my Subaru Outback. I know this is not Subaru
discussion group, but to reply to your issue with engine ping (detonation) I
was angry to learn that my 4 cylinder engine designed (and recommended by
Subaru) to use 87 AKI gas now has to use 94 AKI (fortunately available in
Vancouver, B.C.). With 87/89 and even 92 AKI it pings like crazy.

Everything I tried (you mentioned it as well) was to no avail. Now I just
have to live with it.
Even Subaru rep. for North-West Canada said that at some point in engine's
life I have to switch to higher octane fuel.

Well, this was no message to give you any solution (sorry) but to comfort
you that you're not alone (hope that helps).

Cheers,
Voja

"Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOTcomn> wrote in message
news:60490$44320800$180fead6$8973@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=blue]
>
> <scott_cornwell@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1144114403.050938.168060@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...[color=green]
>> Ok, my van pings under load. The shop (Toyota in Chantilly, VA) did the
>> standard decarb, cleaned the throttle body, and the save the world can
>> of BG44k. Well of course the Van sill pings. They say use 93 Octance
>> and don't use Mobile, Exxon, Hess, etc. which is about every gas
>> station with 15 miles of my house. (BTW, Exxon was thrilled to hear
>> Toyota doesn't recommend their gas)
>>
>> Any ideas. No engine codes, no sure if this vechile has an EGR, at
>> least I can't find one. The manual says 87 Octane or 93 for increased
>> performance (yea right).
>>
>> I use 87 like all my other cars and what I used for the first 4 years
>> of ownership. There is no way I am paying for the 93 in a minivan. My
>> Nissan doesn't ping with this gas, my Ford Windstar doesn't ping with
>> this gas, my corrolla didn't ping with this gas, which they claim is
>> the problem. I had the problem for about 4+ months along with numerous
>> other problems not usually found on Toyotas.
>>
>> Again any ideas?
>>
>> Scoot[/color]
>
> How many miles are on the van? Do you know if the shop checked knock
> sensor operation? When the engine is pinging, the knock sensor should
> send a signal to the ECU, which in turn retards the ignition timing. If
> the knock sensor is not detecting the pinging or not sending a signal,
> then the ECU doesn't know about the pinging and keeps the timing advanced.
> If there is no open circuit to the knock sensor, then the ECU won't know
> it is bad and won't turn on the malfunction indicator light.
> --
>
> Ray O
> (correct punctuation to reply)
>[/color]

The vehicle only has 44k. Ping / detonation is NOT normal and is very
bad.

I use to be a mechanic back in the early 90s and this is just when more
sophisticated sensors like knock sensors just came out. I am almost
positive the shop didn't do any testing like measuring the voltage from
the knock sensors while taping on the engine block with a hammer. Check
the knocks sensors are a great idea! Thanks! It looks like I will have
to do that myself.

If some mechanic tells you to live with your car's ping that is there
way of saying they don't know what's wrong. Depending on the severity
of the knock or detonation could damage your motor plus you are not
getting the full performance of the vehicle and gas mileage, as you
should. IMHO this would then be covered under the power train warranty
and they should do everything including replacing your motor if they
can not fix the ping.

I was told another test with vehicles with knock sensors is to tap on
the engine block and use a timing light and visually see the timing
retard. No sue if this will work with the vehicle sitting still but I
will try. I will get back to everyone if the problem is resolved.
Thanks for the input!

"scoot" <scott_cornwell@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1144760596.634774.98310@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> The vehicle only has 44k. Ping / detonation is NOT normal and is very
> bad.
>
> I use to be a mechanic back in the early 90s and this is just when more
> sophisticated sensors like knock sensors just came out. I am almost
> positive the shop didn't do any testing like measuring the voltage from
> the knock sensors while taping on the engine block with a hammer. Check
> the knocks sensors are a great idea! Thanks! It looks like I will have
> to do that myself.[/color]

You'll need a multi meter with a data store function because the signal from
the knock sensor is very momentary. The knock sensor is basically a piezo
electric crystal like that used in barbecue sparkers - when the crystal is
stressed, it emits a static spark.
[color=blue]
>
> If some mechanic tells you to live with your car's ping that is there
> way of saying they don't know what's wrong. Depending on the severity
> of the knock or detonation could damage your motor plus you are not
> getting the full performance of the vehicle and gas mileage, as you
> should. IMHO this would then be covered under the power train warranty
> and they should do everything including replacing your motor if they
> can not fix the ping.
>
> I was told another test with vehicles with knock sensors is to tap on
> the engine block and use a timing light and visually see the timing
> retard. No sue if this will work with the vehicle sitting still but I
> will try. I will get back to everyone if the problem is resolved.
> Thanks for the input!
>[/color]

Rev the engine enough so that the timing is advanced before you start
banging. Just make sure you don't whack the knock sensor itself or any
other delicate parts ;-) The difficulty you may have with checking timing
is if the engine has a coil -over-plug setup, then you need some kind of
connector to pick up the #1 cylinder spark signal.

I seem to recall reading about issues with Siennas pinging, but I'm not
sure.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

Thanks for the input!! Haven't had a chance to give it a wirl yet.

Scott
Ray O wrote:[color=blue]
> "scoot" <scott_cornwell@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1144760596.634774.98310@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...[color=green]
> > The vehicle only has 44k. Ping / detonation is NOT normal and is very
> > bad.
> >
> > I use to be a mechanic back in the early 90s and this is just when more
> > sophisticated sensors like knock sensors just came out. I am almost
> > positive the shop didn't do any testing like measuring the voltage from
> > the knock sensors while taping on the engine block with a hammer. Check
> > the knocks sensors are a great idea! Thanks! It looks like I will have
> > to do that myself.[/color]
>
> You'll need a multi meter with a data store function because the signal from
> the knock sensor is very momentary. The knock sensor is basically a piezo
> electric crystal like that used in barbecue sparkers - when the crystal is
> stressed, it emits a static spark.
>[color=green]
> >
> > If some mechanic tells you to live with your car's ping that is there
> > way of saying they don't know what's wrong. Depending on the severity
> > of the knock or detonation could damage your motor plus you are not
> > getting the full performance of the vehicle and gas mileage, as you
> > should. IMHO this would then be covered under the power train warranty
> > and they should do everything including replacing your motor if they
> > can not fix the ping.
> >
> > I was told another test with vehicles with knock sensors is to tap on
> > the engine block and use a timing light and visually see the timing
> > retard. No sue if this will work with the vehicle sitting still but I
> > will try. I will get back to everyone if the problem is resolved.
> > Thanks for the input!
> >[/color]
>
> Rev the engine enough so that the timing is advanced before you start
> banging. Just make sure you don't whack the knock sensor itself or any
> other delicate parts ;-) The difficulty you may have with checking timing
> is if the engine has a coil -over-plug setup, then you need some kind of
> connector to pick up the #1 cylinder spark signal.
>
> I seem to recall reading about issues with Siennas pinging, but I'm not
> sure.
> --
>
> Ray O
> (correct punctuation to reply)[/color]

"scoot" <scott_cornwell@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1145401681.043050.114510@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> Thanks for the input!! Haven't had a chance to give it a wirl yet.
>
> Scott[/color]

let us know how it works out.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)