What if.....

I was thinking, with GM having all the problems they are, they may soon
be bought out by another company. Say Toyota for example. I'm all for
this. I think Toyota could teach those guys a thing or two about
building reliable cars. I come from a Toyota family so I'm a *bit*
biased. If Toyota does buy GM, I might even consider buying a (new) GM
product for every day transport. I know this will most likely start a
flamewar, but I'm just stating my opinion.

<toycars26@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1144356093.746821.265010@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>I was thinking, with GM having all the problems they are, they may soon
> be bought out by another company. Say Toyota for example. I'm all for
> this. I think Toyota could teach those guys a thing or two about
> building reliable cars. I come from a Toyota family so I'm a *bit*
> biased. If Toyota does buy GM, I might even consider buying a (new) GM
> product for every day transport. I know this will most likely start a
> flamewar, but I'm just stating my opinion.
>[/color]

Very unlikely, GM would have way too many bad habits to unlearn.

[email]toycars26@hotmail.com[/email], 4/6/2006,4:41:33 PM, wrote:
[color=blue]
> I know this will most likely start a
> flamewar[/color]

I think this is the main point of your post.

>I was thinking, with GM having all the problems they are, they may soon[color=blue]
> be bought out by another company. Say Toyota for example. I'm all for
> this. I think Toyota could teach those guys a thing or two about
> building reliable cars. I come from a Toyota family so I'm a *bit*[/color]

They DO know how to buid a reliable car. Employee salaries and benefits and
keeping
stockholders happy have forced the North American car manufacturers to lower
a lot
of things, including quality.
Another thing, friend of mine used to be a Ford dealer. At a meeting, Ford
offered to make available
to them a car that could go 20 years trouble free. They said NO!!! Profits
are more important than anything else.

Bassplayer12, 4/6/2006,6:12:08 PM, wrote:
[color=blue]
> Another thing, friend of mine used to be a Ford dealer. At a meeting,
> Ford offered to make available to them a car that could go 20 years
> trouble free. They said NO!!! Profits are more important than
> anything else.[/color]

I've heard this before and find it hard to believe.

Mmmmmm.I wonder why? LOL


mike hunt


"badgolferman" <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:xn0eknx4n47w8ov002@news.readfreenews.net...[color=blue]
> Bassplayer12, 4/6/2006,6:12:08 PM, wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Another thing, friend of mine used to be a Ford dealer. At a meeting,
>> Ford offered to make available to them a car that could go 20 years
>> trouble free. They said NO!!! Profits are more important than
>> anything else.[/color]
>
> I've heard this before and find it hard to believe.[/color]

[email]toycars26@hotmail.com[/email] wrote:[color=blue]
> I was thinking, with GM having all the problems they are, they may soon
> be bought out by another company. Say Toyota for example. I'm all for
> this. I think Toyota could teach those guys a thing or two about
> building reliable cars. I come from a Toyota family so I'm a *bit*
> biased. If Toyota does buy GM, I might even consider buying a (new) GM
> product for every day transport. I know this will most likely start a
> flamewar, but I'm just stating my opinion.[/color]

Whoa. You seem to think it is INEVITABLE that GM will just find its
savior in the form of another company and all will live happily ever
after.

Don't necessarily bet that Toyota is sadistic enough to want to buy
into your thought. They have a streamlined and profitable operation
without having to crank out ungodly numbers of units.

As much as the US manufacturing base has been allowed to corrode and
with China making GM engines (the 3.4L v6, for one) now, don't rush to
think there will be a rush to save a failing company.

Besides, since when is natural selection in the corporate world a bad
thing?

Yeah, I know, all the jobs and all the cars...someone(s) will have to
fill that void eventually as just letting X number of potential vehicle
sales in the US market go untouched is unwise. Kia is building a US
plant, for crying out loud. If given no other alternative for an
Aveoesque offering, they will pull some.

Besides, after the NUMMI venture and the fact that GM had a Corolla
clone in its fold for so long, they should know something about making
consistently reliable vehicles by now. Not spotty crap like intake
manifold gaskets, 4L60E's with aluminum valve bodies, bad alternators,
crummy taillight circuit boards on the 88-98 trucks (replaced with
aftermarket lights not using the circuit boards), the decision to
follow the Mustang by several years (2009? Get real...) or even bring
a crossover into the fold...

But, GM a least did well in acquiring a few of the Seven sins....sloth,
gluttony, and greed, for starters.

>> Another thing, friend of mine used to be a Ford dealer. At a meeting,[color=blue][color=green]
>> Ford offered to make available to them a car that could go 20 years
>> trouble free. They said NO!!! Profits are more important than
>> anything else.[/color]
>
> I've heard this before and find it hard to believe.[/color]

I know it is but my friend was a the meeting and reported exactly what was
discussed.

Bassplayer12, 4/7/2006, 7:38:16 AM,
<IasZf.56259$VV4.999878@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> > > Another thing, friend of mine used to be a Ford dealer. At a
> > > meeting, Ford offered to make available to them a car that could
> > > go 20 years trouble free. They said NO!!! Profits are more
> > > important than anything else.[/color]
> >
> > I've heard this before and find it hard to believe.[/color]
>
> I know it is but my friend was a the meeting and reported exactly
> what was discussed.[/color]

No, my point is this has been repeated by many other people and I doubt
they were in the same meeting as your friend. Is it possible your
friend is repeating something he heard from other people...? After all
it does make a good story.

--
"Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it." ~
Flannery O'Connor

>> > > Another thing, friend of mine used to be a Ford dealer. At a[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>> > > meeting, Ford offered to make available to them a car that could
>> > > go 20 years trouble free. They said NO!!! Profits are more
>> > > important than anything else.
>> >
>> > I've heard this before and find it hard to believe.[/color]
>>
>> I know it is but my friend was a the meeting and reported exactly
>> what was discussed.[/color]
>
> No, my point is this has been repeated by many other people and I doubt
> they were in the same meeting as your friend. Is it possible your
> friend is repeating something he heard from other people...? After all
> it does make a good story.[/color]

It was repeated by other people and probably became a legend or an urban
myth in some ways many other story. I see your point.
My friend assured me it was true. He told me the story about 15 years ago
and was very serious when telling it.
He was a Ford dealer and went to a Ford dealer meeting. The Ford brass did
indeed proposed to build a car that could last 20 years. They all said NO!
Glen has passed away a couple of years ago so, I can't ask him for the
details.

<toycars26@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1144356093.746821.265010@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> I was thinking, with GM having all the problems they are, they may soon
> be bought out by another company. Say Toyota for example. I'm all for
> this. I think Toyota could teach those guys a thing or two about
> building reliable cars. I come from a Toyota family so I'm a *bit*
> biased. If Toyota does buy GM, I might even consider buying a (new) GM
> product for every day transport. I know this will most likely start a
> flamewar, but I'm just stating my opinion.[/color]


I doubt that will happen. I suspect that, at worst, GM will declare
bankruptcy,
cancel the contracts, make all the stocks worthless, and reorganize under
protection.

To declare bankrupt you don't have to be dead, just on the point of dying.

Daimler Benz, of course, acquired Chrysler, so the concept is possible.

I have been in sales meetings, by the way, where executives made the kind
of statement another poster has quoted. "If we gave you a car that would
last
for 20 years, troublefree, would you be happy"
This might have been similar to what happened in the Ford story.
In fact they can't do this, or at least never intend to do it.
When you are trying to get a sales organization to improve its market share,
the salesmen always say "We could, if you could give us this, or that, or
the other".
It is a common CYA situation.
The worst thing you can do to a salesman, sometimes, is give him what he
asks for.
Then his excuse is ruptured.

It can be really hard to figure out how to design a product, and the
marketing technique,
which will take a large share of the business from a competitor. Books have
been
written on it. Some companies have wasted millions or even billions on
fool's schemes.

GM has had it share of fools in management.

"Bassplayer12" <perettij@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
news:oGsZf.56275$VV4.1000523@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> > > Another thing, friend of mine used to be a Ford dealer. At a
>>> > > meeting, Ford offered to make available to them a car that could
>>> > > go 20 years trouble free. They said NO!!! Profits are more
>>> > > important than anything else.
>>> >
>>> > I've heard this before and find it hard to believe.
>>>
>>> I know it is but my friend was a the meeting and reported exactly
>>> what was discussed.[/color]
>>
>> No, my point is this has been repeated by many other people and I doubt
>> they were in the same meeting as your friend. Is it possible your
>> friend is repeating something he heard from other people...? After all
>> it does make a good story.[/color]
>
> It was repeated by other people and probably became a legend or an urban
> myth in some ways many other story. I see your point.
> My friend assured me it was true. He told me the story about 15 years ago
> and was very serious when telling it.
> He was a Ford dealer and went to a Ford dealer meeting. The Ford brass did
> indeed proposed to build a car that could last 20 years. They all said NO!
> Glen has passed away a couple of years ago so, I can't ask him for the
> details.[/color]

Could be an urban myth...BUT...they always said that GM sold Fridgidaire all
those years ago because they were too reliable and never broke down, hence
not enough turn-over. That could well be a myth, too, so don't shoot the
messenger!

Jane[color=blue]
>
>[/color]

JUST BUY A TOYOTA AND IT WILL LAST 20 YEARS!!!!!!!!



Jane wrote:[color=blue]
> "Bassplayer12" <perettij@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
> news:oGsZf.56275$VV4.1000523@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...[color=green][color=darkred]
> >>> > > Another thing, friend of mine used to be a Ford dealer. At a
> >>> > > meeting, Ford offered to make available to them a car that could
> >>> > > go 20 years trouble free. They said NO!!! Profits are more
> >>> > > important than anything else.
> >>> >
> >>> > I've heard this before and find it hard to believe.
> >>>
> >>> I know it is but my friend was a the meeting and reported exactly
> >>> what was discussed.
> >>
> >> No, my point is this has been repeated by many other people and I doubt
> >> they were in the same meeting as your friend. Is it possible your
> >> friend is repeating something he heard from other people...? After all
> >> it does make a good story.[/color]
> >
> > It was repeated by other people and probably became a legend or an urban
> > myth in some ways many other story. I see your point.
> > My friend assured me it was true. He told me the story about 15 years ago
> > and was very serious when telling it.
> > He was a Ford dealer and went to a Ford dealer meeting. The Ford brass did
> > indeed proposed to build a car that could last 20 years. They all said NO!
> > Glen has passed away a couple of years ago so, I can't ask him for the
> > details.[/color]
>
> Could be an urban myth...BUT...they always said that GM sold Fridgidaire all
> those years ago because they were too reliable and never broke down, hence
> not enough turn-over. That could well be a myth, too, so don't shoot the
> messenger!
>
> Jane[color=green]
> >
> >[/color][/color]

"Bassplayer12" <perettij@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
news:YmgZf.56042$VV4.986245@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...[color=blue][color=green]
> >I was thinking, with GM having all the problems they are, they may soon
>> be bought out by another company. Say Toyota for example. I'm all for
>> this. I think Toyota could teach those guys a thing or two about
>> building reliable cars. I come from a Toyota family so I'm a *bit*[/color]
>
> They DO know how to buid a reliable car. Employee salaries and benefits
> and keeping
> stockholders happy....[/color]


This is the main problem. They are trying to keep the stockholders happy by
keeping costs down. This leads to firing worker (which, with all the
benefits of being fired, does NOT lower costs...) and by cheapening the
product.

As Toyota has learned, the BEST way to make a profit is by making a product
people WANT to buy, and buy them up as fast as they are made! And they have
found people are willing to pay a premium for a car they can DRIVE on the
weekends instead of opening the hood every Saturday. Switches that don't
feel like they are going to fall off in you hand.

And, by the very nature of their design, due to being from Japan where fuel
costs are much higher, very good economy.

I for one would be willing to get less for a lower price, like my old
Corollas, rather than pay a lower price for a car that appears to be
full-featured, but made with the cheapest components possible. Quality over
quantity. They could make a Cavalier (or, Cobalt I think it is now) that
would last as long as any Corolla, without the 'blings' and that would suit
me just fine. As long as it didn't FEEL cheap

My $0.02.

"Bassplayer12" <perettij@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
news:oGsZf.56275$VV4.1000523@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> >> > > Another thing, friend of mine used to be a Ford dealer. At a
> >> > > meeting, Ford offered to make available to them a car that could
> >> > > go 20 years trouble free. They said NO!!! Profits are more
> >> > > important than anything else.
> >> >
> >> > I've heard this before and find it hard to believe.
> >>
> >> I know it is but my friend was a the meeting and reported exactly
> >> what was discussed.[/color]
> >
> > No, my point is this has been repeated by many other people and I doubt
> > they were in the same meeting as your friend. Is it possible your
> > friend is repeating something he heard from other people...? After all
> > it does make a good story.[/color]
>
> It was repeated by other people and probably became a legend or an urban
> myth in some ways many other story. I see your point.
> My friend assured me it was true. He told me the story about 15 years ago
> and was very serious when telling it.
> He was a Ford dealer and went to a Ford dealer meeting. The Ford brass did
> indeed proposed to build a car that could last 20 years. They all said NO!
> Glen has passed away a couple of years ago so, I can't ask him for the
> details.
>
>[/color]

Nothing about these kinds of stories makes any sense. Take a second to
think about it. Why would Ford want to make a car that will last 20 years?
To help their own parts business? These stories always have a "friend" who
was there and, and, and..., but the fact remains that it's not even
possible, let alone probable. It's just like the miracle carburetor that
some wingnut supposedly developed which gave 80 mpg out of the average V-8,
and GM purchased the rights to it and put it on a shelf.

Now think about it from this perspective. What machine in the price range
of a car, can possibly go 20 years trouble free? It's a machine. It's
subject to wear and fatigue. Do you really think Ford is not aware of the
fact that things begin wearing out the moment they begin operating?

I believe it might have been possible for Ford to have asked it's dealers a
philosophical question that went along the lines of "do you want us to build
a car that lasts 20 years, or do you want the continued service and parts
business?", which is quite different from offering to build a car that can
really last 20 years. Context is everything. BTW - who was the "Ford" that
asked this question? Ford Marketing? Ford Service/Parts? Ford Sales? It
is quite meaningless to say "Ford offered...".

--

-Mike-
[email]mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net[/email]