CRV Diesel

According to this UK Toyota web site
<http://www.toyota.co.uk/cgi-bin/toyota/bv/generic_editorial.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0673431767.1145848120@@@@&BV_EngineID=cccdaddhilhhdfhcfngcfkmdfkidffk.0&navRoot=toyota_1024_root&portal=null&edname=RV4_exp&catname=%2ftoyota_1024_root%2fmain_nav%2fpageTopNav%2fZone+RAV4&zone=Zone+RAV4&menuid=55553&sr=Mall>

Toyota sells Diesel CRV in UK (40.4 MPG).
It beats any Hybrids to death regarding MPG.

Why waste so much money on developing Hybrid?
Why not just sell Diesel Toyota here is US?
Mecede-Benz(Dodge, Freightliner) is selling their Sprinter Van like hot cakes
for years in US now.

---
The more we know, the less we know.
Low carb cures hungry but stop not craving.
k 1 6 8 9 a t h o t m a i l d o t c o m

Relative to the europeans, north american fuel prices are still less than
half price.
Is the extra cost of the diesel motor economically viable at this point?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the north american fuel has more sulfur making
it less suitable for the extreme high pressures generated by modern injector
pumps in common rail systems.
Toyotas diesel motors as used in their pickup trucks and land cruisers would
go forever; but north americans still like their hp and appearance over
milage and reliability.

The hybrids seem to be selling more hp (as in lexus suv) rather than
increased milage. Maybe the market isn't ready to compromise yet.

jb


"Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOTcomn> wrote in message
news:b951b$444c5ab1$180fead6$31070@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=blue]
>
> "abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz" <ROOT@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:d7go425j91j7pqetd474kj0lbages9a3la@4ax.com...[color=green]
>>
>> According to this UK Toyota web site
>> <http://www.toyota.co.uk/cgi-bin/toyota/bv/generic_editorial.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0673431767.1145848120@@@@&BV_EngineID=cccdaddhilhhdfhcfngcfkmdfkidffk.0&navRoot=toyota_1024_root&portal=null&edname=RV4_exp&catname=%2ftoyota_1024_root%2fmain_nav%2fpageTopNav%2fZone+RAV4&zone=Zone+RAV4&menuid=55553&sr=Mall>
>>
>> Toyota sells Diesel CRV in UK (40.4 MPG).
>> It beats any Hybrids to death regarding MPG.[/color]
>
> The CRV's sold in the U.S are made by Honda. Toyota makes the Rav4.
>[color=green]
>>
>> Why waste so much money on developing Hybrid?
>> Why not just sell Diesel Toyota here is US?
>> Mecede-Benz(Dodge, Freightliner) is selling their Sprinter Van like hot
>> cakes
>> for years in US now.
>>[/color]
>
> Diesel passenger cars got a bad reputation in the minds of many American
> consumers, thanks to the poor reliability of GM passenger car diesels
> after the first gas crisis. The quality of passenger car diesel engines
> has come a long way since then, however, I think most American consumers
> still distrust them so automakers other than VW don't go through the
> expense of certifying them for sale in the U.S.
> --
>
> Ray O
> (correct punctuation to reply)
>[/color]

"bosman" <jpbos@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:8m63g.486$1V4.48536@news20.bellglobal.com...[color=blue]
> Relative to the europeans, north american fuel prices are still less than
> half price.
> Is the extra cost of the diesel motor economically viable at this point?[/color]

I guess it depends on how often the buyer replaces vehicles. Someone who
replaces vehicles every 3 years may not recover the extra cost, but someone
who keeps vehicles for 10 years probably would.
[color=blue]
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but the north american fuel has more sulfur
> making it less suitable for the extreme high pressures generated by modern
> injector pumps in common rail systems.[/color]

I am not a chemist so I don't know whether the sulfur affects the
suitabaility of fuel for use in diesels or not. I suspect that it does not
affect performance but it does affect emissions.
[color=blue]
> Toyotas diesel motors as used in their pickup trucks and land cruisers
> would go forever; but north americans still like their hp and appearance
> over milage and reliability.
>
> The hybrids seem to be selling more hp (as in lexus suv) rather than
> increased milage. Maybe the market isn't ready to compromise yet.
>
> jb
>[/color]

As I mentioned, many Americans remember diesels as noisy, soot-spewing, hard
starting engines that failed early and often. The average automobile
technician had little or no experience working on diesels so the quality of
diagnosis and repair was often spotty, so I suspect that the average
American incorrectly views diesels as less reliable than a gasoline engine.

The cost of diesel fuel is generally higher than unleaded here in the
Midwest, so that also extends the break-even period, and diesel fuel is not
available at every filling station.

--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz <ROOT@Hotmail.com> writes:
[color=blue]
> Why waste so much money on developing Hybrid?
> Why not just sell Diesel Toyota here is US?[/color]

Diesels have an image to overcome among U.S. consumers.
Many Americans believe them to be noisy, smelly, and
underpowered. That's because there haven't been many
modern diesel cars sold here in recent years. Or even
primitive ones, for that matter.

Many people believe that diesel fuel is hard to find,
also. It isn't really; it's just that most people aren't
accustomed to watching for gas stations that sell it. Then
there's the fact that diesel fuel is now inexplicably more
costly than most gasoline. Add to thgat the higher purchas
price of a diesel car relative to the conventional version,
and people begin to suspect they'd come out ahead financially
by sticking with a gasoline-powered vehicle.

Then there's the GM diesel debacle from the late 1970s, which
a lot of folks still remember...


[color=blue]
> Mecede-Benz(Dodge, Freightliner) is selling their Sprinter
> Van like hot cakes for years in US now.[/color]

For years? I thought they just started selling it for this
model year, or last year at the earliest.



Geoff

--
"Soon, nearly everyone in the room was announcing that no existing
group adequately reflected their identity, and they needed to be
in a group of one. It was like a capsule history of the American
Left." -- East Bay Express

"bosman" <jpbos@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:8m63g.486$1V4.48536@news20.bellglobal.com...[color=blue]
> Relative to the europeans, north american fuel prices are still less than
> half price.
> Is the extra cost of the diesel motor economically viable at this point?
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but the north american fuel has more sulfur
> making it less suitable for the extreme high pressures generated by modern
> injector pumps in common rail systems.
> Toyotas diesel motors as used in their pickup trucks and land cruisers
> would go forever; but north americans still like their hp and appearance
> over milage and reliability.
>
> The hybrids seem to be selling more hp (as in lexus suv) rather than
> increased milage. Maybe the market isn't ready to compromise yet.
>
> jb[/color]

It will be by the end of the Summer!!! Prices are expected to top $4.00 per
gallon, up to $4.50 or $5.00!!!
Some places in Calif have alreay hit $4.299 for Premium.
Of course, Diesel has increased as well, even more so than gasoline. This is
for two primary reasons:
1. The *ANTICIPATION* that more people will be switchinh to Diesel (um,
isn't this 'gouging'?).
2. The Feds have called for a reduction in the sulfur content, so the oils
companies are charging up front for the work that will have to be done to
reduce the sulfur content.

But, I believe in the long run, Diesel will come back under the price of
gasoline, and the engines get better mileage to boot.
In the long run, it makes sense.

Of course, in the LONG run (the past THIRTY FREAKING YEARS!!!!!) an
alternative fuel would have been a much much better idea, such as Corn
Squeezin's! Shoot, not only that, but you can get a snootful off the stuff
to boot! (Read the label for Everclear! They ought to put a warning "Not for
use as a motor fuel"!)



[color=blue]
>
>
> "Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOTcomn> wrote in message
> news:b951b$444c5ab1$180fead6$31070@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=green]
>>
>> "abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz" <ROOT@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:d7go425j91j7pqetd474kj0lbages9a3la@4ax.com...[color=darkred]
>>>
>>> According to this UK Toyota web site
>>> <http://www.toyota.co.uk/cgi-bin/toyota/bv/generic_editorial.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0673431767.1145848120@@@@&BV_EngineID=cccdaddhilhhdfhcfngcfkmdfkidffk.0&navRoot=toyota_1024_root&portal=null&edname=RV4_exp&catname=%2ftoyota_1024_root%2fmain_nav%2fpageTopNav%2fZone+RAV4&zone=Zone+RAV4&menuid=55553&sr=Mall>
>>>
>>> Toyota sells Diesel CRV in UK (40.4 MPG).
>>> It beats any Hybrids to death regarding MPG.[/color]
>>
>> The CRV's sold in the U.S are made by Honda. Toyota makes the Rav4.
>>[color=darkred]
>>>
>>> Why waste so much money on developing Hybrid?
>>> Why not just sell Diesel Toyota here is US?
>>> Mecede-Benz(Dodge, Freightliner) is selling their Sprinter Van like hot
>>> cakes
>>> for years in US now.
>>>[/color]
>>
>> Diesel passenger cars got a bad reputation in the minds of many American
>> consumers, thanks to the poor reliability of GM passenger car diesels
>> after the first gas crisis. The quality of passenger car diesel engines
>> has come a long way since then, however, I think most American consumers
>> still distrust them so automakers other than VW don't go through the
>> expense of certifying them for sale in the U.S.
>> --
>>
>> Ray O
>> (correct punctuation to reply)
>>[/color]
>
>[/color]

One of my friends owns a 2006 $80,000 MB diesel luxury sedan. He loves it
but he says it is indeed noisy, smelly, and
underpowered compared to his 2004 $63,000 gas powered MB. He bought it to
save money on fuel. He also own a diesel pick up. Like a hybrid, I wonder
how he will ever recover the $6,000 it cost, over the same truck with a gas
engine? ;)



mike hunt



"Geoff Miller" <geoffm@u1.netgate.net> wrote in message
news:e2ivao$t1t@u1.netgate.net...[color=blue]
>
>
> abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz <ROOT@Hotmail.com> writes:
>[color=green]
>> Why waste so much money on developing Hybrid?
>> Why not just sell Diesel Toyota here is US?[/color]
>
> Diesels have an image to overcome among U.S. consumers.
> Many Americans believe them to be noisy, smelly, and
> underpowered. That's because there haven't been many
> modern diesel cars sold here in recent years. Or even
> primitive ones, for that matter.[/color]

Mike Hunter <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> writes:
[color=blue]
> One of my friends owns a 2006 $80,000 MB diesel luxury sedan.
> He loves it but he says it is indeed noisy, smelly, and under-
> powered compared to his 2004 $63,000 gas powered MB.[/color]

My '91 certainly isn't any of those things. Diesel cars are
generally *less* powerful and *more* noisy than their gasoline-
engined counterparts. But that isn't the same thing as being
underpowered and noisy in an objective sense. (I actually like
the sound, personally. My car is as quiet at speed as a contem-
porary 300E that I drove.)

As for the smell, I think what people notice with diesels is the
difference in the odor from what they're accustomed to. Subjec-
tively, I've never found the odor of diesel exhaust to be particularly
(particulately?) offensive.)

[color=blue]
> He bought it to save money on fuel. He also own a diesel pick up.
> Like a hybrid, I wonder how he will ever recover the $6,000 it cost,
> over the same truck with a gas engine? ;)[/color]

Yeah, the idea of buying an $80K economy car implies certain mental
gymnastics at work. The smart approach is to buy them used. That's
what I did. I bought my '91 300D 2.5 a little over a year and a half
ago, a nonsmoker's car in pristine condition and with only 58K miles,
for less than 12 grand. (It had been purchased new by an older couple
when they retired, and had seen very light use.) Fifty-thousand-odd
miles is nothing with those cars; it means they're barely broken in.

So I got an essentially new Mercedes that gets great mileage and will
last for years, in a style that I prefer to the current one, for the
cost of a new, bottom-of-the-line Hyundai. What's not to like? Which
do you suppose most people would rather drive?



Geoff

--
"Round noses were good enough for Lee Harvey Oswald,
they're good enough for me." -- Rich McAllister