Low Brake Pedal-Corolla

We have two Corollas ( 95 & 96). Both have very low brake pedals. The
pedals dont seem soft, but very low. The amount of pedal travel
before braking seems extreme. My Camry (92) has a very high pedal and
excellent braking. I know to check fluid level, rear brake adjustment,
air in lines, caliper movement. Does anyone else experience low brake
pedals on their Corollas? Any other thoughts? Thanks.

larry <lrussell@kerrygroup.com> wrote:[color=blue]
> We have two Corollas ( 95 & 96). Both have very low brake pedals. The
> pedals dont seem soft, but very low. The amount of pedal travel
> before braking seems extreme. My Camry (92) has a very high pedal and
> excellent braking. I know to check fluid level, rear brake adjustment,
> air in lines, caliper movement. Does anyone else experience low brake
> pedals on their Corollas? Any other thoughts? Thanks.[/color]

Have you changed the fluid? It absorbs water over time. The brake
fluid and water mix will compress a lot more than fluid alone. I have a
'94 DX. I've changed the brake fluid every 5 years and noticed the car
brakes with less pedal travel and provides better braking feedback
through the pedal both times.

If you have the original brake fluid in there, its overdue for a change.

"larry" <lrussell@kerrygroup.com> wrote in message
news:1146775158.932735.30460@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> We have two Corollas ( 95 & 96). Both have very low brake pedals. The
> pedals dont seem soft, but very low. The amount of pedal travel
> before braking seems extreme. My Camry (92) has a very high pedal and
> excellent braking. I know to check fluid level, rear brake adjustment,
> air in lines, caliper movement. Does anyone else experience low brake
> pedals on their Corollas? Any other thoughts? Thanks.
>[/color]

Have you checked the items you know to check? The only other thing that
could cause a low pedal is master cylinder pushrod adjustment, but if the
master cylinder has not been touched, then pushrod adjustment wouldn't
change.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

<someone@somewhere.org> wrote in message news:gmu6g.86$4I.51@dukeread10...[color=blue]
> larry <lrussell@kerrygroup.com> wrote:[color=green]
>> We have two Corollas ( 95 & 96). Both have very low brake pedals. The
>> pedals dont seem soft, but very low. The amount of pedal travel
>> before braking seems extreme. My Camry (92) has a very high pedal and
>> excellent braking. I know to check fluid level, rear brake adjustment,
>> air in lines, caliper movement. Does anyone else experience low brake
>> pedals on their Corollas? Any other thoughts? Thanks.[/color]
>
> Have you changed the fluid? It absorbs water over time. The brake
> fluid and water mix will compress a lot more than fluid alone. I have a
> '94 DX. I've changed the brake fluid every 5 years and noticed the car
> brakes with less pedal travel and provides better braking feedback
> through the pedal both times.
>
> If you have the original brake fluid in there, its overdue for a change.
>[/color]

*huh*??

Not to say that the original fluid isn't overdue for a change, nor that you
are actually experiencing the phenomenon you describe, but water (any
liquid) is incompressible, at least at the pressures an auto brake system is
likely to see. That you have bled any air that had gradually become
entrained in the lines is, I think, the more likely cause of what *you* are
experiencing.

I would think more likely causes of *Larry's* problem would be warped rotors
or (less likely) improperly adjusted wheel bearings (excess runout means
more pad travel), anyeurisms in the flexible lines, or movement of brake
components, e.g. loose backing plates, wheel cylinders, etc. This assumes
that he's correctly performed all of the more likely adjustments he
mentioned.

On Thu, 04 May 2006 21:45:29 +0000, Mike Harris wrote:
[color=blue]
> <someone@somewhere.org> wrote in message news:gmu6g.86$4I.51@dukeread10...[color=green]
>> larry <lrussell@kerrygroup.com> wrote:[color=darkred]
>>> We have two Corollas ( 95 & 96). Both have very low brake pedals. The
>>> pedals dont seem soft, but very low. The amount of pedal travel
>>> before braking seems extreme. My Camry (92) has a very high pedal and
>>> excellent braking. I know to check fluid level, rear brake adjustment,
>>> air in lines, caliper movement. Does anyone else experience low brake
>>> pedals on their Corollas? Any other thoughts? Thanks.[/color]
>>
>> Have you changed the fluid? It absorbs water over time. The brake
>> fluid and water mix will compress a lot more than fluid alone. I have a
>> '94 DX. I've changed the brake fluid every 5 years and noticed the car
>> brakes with less pedal travel and provides better braking feedback
>> through the pedal both times.
>>
>> If you have the original brake fluid in there, its overdue for a change.
>>[/color]
>
> *huh*??
>
> Not to say that the original fluid isn't overdue for a change, nor that you
> are actually experiencing the phenomenon you describe, but water (any
> liquid) is incompressible, at least at the pressures an auto brake system is
> likely to see. That you have bled any air that had gradually become
> entrained in the lines is, I think, the more likely cause of what *you* are
> experiencing.
>
> I would think more likely causes of *Larry's* problem would be warped rotors
> or (less likely) improperly adjusted wheel bearings (excess runout means
> more pad travel), anyeurisms in the flexible lines, or movement of brake
> components, e.g. loose backing plates, wheel cylinders, etc. This assumes
> that he's correctly performed all of the more likely adjustments he
> mentioned.[/color]


Warped rotors would give a kickback through the pedal.

I am also in favor of replacing the brake fluid. This gets the old crap
out of there, and also gets a proper bleeding. Braking improves drstically
once that gunky fluid is out of there.

Here is a great article on how to bleed the brakes (On a BMW, but it's
basically the same procedure) and also tells you how to make a
do-it-yourself bleeder; no need to piss off your wife/GF or bribe a friend
with beer. It works great.

One thing I would add would be to get a broomstick (I use an old
adjustable cane from my stepfather) and push the pedal down, hold it with
the 'cane', tighten the bleeder and let go of the brace, then open the
bleeder, and repeat until all the old gunk is out and the system is bled.
I used bargain-basement rotors and mid grade pads on my Supra and then
bled it this way, and the pedal feels like a new car and it stops on a
dime.

Good luck!

On Thu, 04 May 2006 21:45:29 +0000, Mike Harris wrote:
[color=blue]
> <someone@somewhere.org> wrote in message news:gmu6g.86$4I.51@dukeread10...[color=green]
>> larry <lrussell@kerrygroup.com> wrote:[color=darkred]
>>> We have two Corollas ( 95 & 96). Both have very low brake pedals. The
>>> pedals dont seem soft, but very low. The amount of pedal travel
>>> before braking seems extreme. My Camry (92) has a very high pedal and
>>> excellent braking. I know to check fluid level, rear brake adjustment,
>>> air in lines, caliper movement. Does anyone else experience low brake
>>> pedals on their Corollas? Any other thoughts? Thanks.[/color]
>>
>> Have you changed the fluid? It absorbs water over time. The brake
>> fluid and water mix will compress a lot more than fluid alone. I have a
>> '94 DX. I've changed the brake fluid every 5 years and noticed the car
>> brakes with less pedal travel and provides better braking feedback
>> through the pedal both times.
>>
>> If you have the original brake fluid in there, its overdue for a change.
>>[/color]
>
> *huh*??
>
> Not to say that the original fluid isn't overdue for a change, nor that you
> are actually experiencing the phenomenon you describe, but water (any
> liquid) is incompressible, at least at the pressures an auto brake system is
> likely to see. That you have bled any air that had gradually become
> entrained in the lines is, I think, the more likely cause of what *you* are
> experiencing.
>
> I would think more likely causes of *Larry's* problem would be warped rotors
> or (less likely) improperly adjusted wheel bearings (excess runout means
> more pad travel), anyeurisms in the flexible lines, or movement of brake
> components, e.g. loose backing plates, wheel cylinders, etc. This assumes
> that he's correctly performed all of the more likely adjustments he
> mentioned.[/color]


Might help to post the URL, eh?

[url]http://www.garageboy.com/bmw/bleeder.html[/url]

Mike Harris <harrisremovethiswest@sbcglobal.net> wrote:[color=blue]
> <someone@somewhere.org> wrote in message news:gmu6g.86$4I.51@dukeread10...[color=green]
> > larry <lrussell@kerrygroup.com> wrote:[color=darkred]
> >> We have two Corollas ( 95 & 96). Both have very low brake pedals. The
> >> pedals dont seem soft, but very low. The amount of pedal travel
> >> before braking seems extreme. My Camry (92) has a very high pedal and
> >> excellent braking. I know to check fluid level, rear brake adjustment,
> >> air in lines, caliper movement. Does anyone else experience low brake
> >> pedals on their Corollas? Any other thoughts? Thanks.[/color]
> >
> > Have you changed the fluid? It absorbs water over time. The brake
> > fluid and water mix will compress a lot more than fluid alone. I have a
> > '94 DX. I've changed the brake fluid every 5 years and noticed the car
> > brakes with less pedal travel and provides better braking feedback
> > through the pedal both times.
> >
> > If you have the original brake fluid in there, its overdue for a change.
> >[/color][/color]
[color=blue]
> *huh*??[/color]
[color=blue]
> Not to say that the original fluid isn't overdue for a change, nor that you
> are actually experiencing the phenomenon you describe, but water (any
> liquid) is incompressible, at least at the pressures an auto brake system is
> likely to see.[/color]

Okay, so I forgot to mention the water VAPOR part of the equation. :-)

[url]http://www.raceshopper.com/brake_fluid_faq.shtml[/url]

Ah. Makes more sense, now.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Not to say that the original fluid isn't overdue for a change, nor that
>> you
>> are actually experiencing the phenomenon you describe, but water (any
>> liquid) is incompressible, at least at the pressures an auto brake system
>> is
>> likely to see.[/color]
>
> Okay, so I forgot to mention the water VAPOR part of the equation. :-)
>
> [url]http://www.raceshopper.com/brake_fluid_faq.shtml[/url][/color]

You SAID you checked the rear brake adjustment, but this is the single most
common problem when the brake pedal has a long travel.




"larry" <lrussell@kerrygroup.com> wrote in message
news:1146775158.932735.30460@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> We have two Corollas ( 95 & 96). Both have very low brake pedals. The
> pedals dont seem soft, but very low. The amount of pedal travel
> before braking seems extreme. My Camry (92) has a very high pedal and
> excellent braking. I know to check fluid level, rear brake adjustment,
> air in lines, caliper movement. Does anyone else experience low brake
> pedals on their Corollas? Any other thoughts? Thanks.
>[/color]

"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ruqdnXlt-PNVxMDZnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@ez2.net...[color=blue]
> You SAID you checked the rear brake adjustment, but this is the single
> most common problem when the brake pedal has a long travel.
>
>[/color]
The most common cause of long brake pedal travel is worn brake linings.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

"Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOTcomn> wrote in message
news:617ce$445d69a7$180fead6$5407@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=blue]
>
> "Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:ruqdnXlt-PNVxMDZnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@ez2.net...[color=green]
>> You SAID you checked the rear brake adjustment, but this is the single
>> most common problem when the brake pedal has a long travel.
>>
>>[/color]
> The most common cause of long brake pedal travel is worn brake linings.[/color]

That and poorly adjusted brakes.

I see no point in adjusting brakes without checking them for wear first
though, since wear is what makes them go out of adjustment. I suppose I
should advise people to check the brake shoes before adjusting them, but
when one assumes as much intelligence as I assume, some stuff goes unsaid.
Sorry if I assumed the OP was intelligent.

"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3aSdnQGra-PZmsPZnZ2dnUVZ_u-dnZ2d@ez2.net...[color=blue]
>
> "Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOTcomn> wrote in message
> news:617ce$445d69a7$180fead6$5407@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=green]
>>
>> "Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:ruqdnXlt-PNVxMDZnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@ez2.net...[color=darkred]
>>> You SAID you checked the rear brake adjustment, but this is the single
>>> most common problem when the brake pedal has a long travel.
>>>
>>>[/color]
>> The most common cause of long brake pedal travel is worn brake linings.[/color]
>
> That and poorly adjusted brakes.
>
> I see no point in adjusting brakes without checking them for wear first
> though, since wear is what makes them go out of adjustment. I suppose I
> should advise people to check the brake shoes before adjusting them, but
> when one assumes as much intelligence as I assume, some stuff goes unsaid.
> Sorry if I assumed the OP was intelligent.[/color]

Rear drum brakes go out of adjustment due to brake lining wear, whether the
car has rear drum or disc brakes. Since rear drum brakes need adjustment
due to wear, the root cause of long pedal travel would be the worn linings,
not the out-of-adjustment condition. The rear brakes auto-adjust by
applying the parking brake.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

"Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOTcomn> wrote in message
news:7b3d8$445ec5d2$180fead6$18032@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=blue]
>
> "Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:3aSdnQGra-PZmsPZnZ2dnUVZ_u-dnZ2d@ez2.net...[color=green]
>>
>> "Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOTcomn> wrote in message
>> news:617ce$445d69a7$180fead6$5407@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=darkred]
>>>
>>> "Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:ruqdnXlt-PNVxMDZnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@ez2.net...
>>>> You SAID you checked the rear brake adjustment, but this is the single
>>>> most common problem when the brake pedal has a long travel.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> The most common cause of long brake pedal travel is worn brake linings.[/color]
>>
>> That and poorly adjusted brakes.
>>
>> I see no point in adjusting brakes without checking them for wear first
>> though, since wear is what makes them go out of adjustment. I suppose I
>> should advise people to check the brake shoes before adjusting them, but
>> when one assumes as much intelligence as I assume, some stuff goes
>> unsaid. Sorry if I assumed the OP was intelligent.[/color]
>
> Rear drum brakes go out of adjustment due to brake lining wear, whether
> the car has rear drum or disc brakes. Since rear drum brakes need
> adjustment due to wear, the root cause of long pedal travel would be the
> worn linings, not the out-of-adjustment condition. The rear brakes
> auto-adjust by applying the parking brake.[/color]


Yes, it a perfect world, the rear brakes would always self adjust (btw, they
do this by stopping while going backwards), but the world isn't always
perfect.

The brakes can easily wear while the self adjusters take a vacation, and the
recovery action is to adjust them manually to get the pedal travel back in
line. Certainly, the brakes can wear to the point they require replacement,
but replacement isn't always required when the pedal travel is long.

This is a moot point though because the OP said he adjusted the brakes
already.

"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:m6CdndxZ5400dcLZnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@ez2.net...[color=blue]
>
> "Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOTcomn> wrote in message
> news:7b3d8$445ec5d2$180fead6$18032@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=green]
>>
>> "Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:3aSdnQGra-PZmsPZnZ2dnUVZ_u-dnZ2d@ez2.net...[color=darkred]
>>>
>>> "Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOTcomn> wrote in message
>>> news:617ce$445d69a7$180fead6$5407@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:ruqdnXlt-PNVxMDZnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@ez2.net...
>>>>> You SAID you checked the rear brake adjustment, but this is the single
>>>>> most common problem when the brake pedal has a long travel.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> The most common cause of long brake pedal travel is worn brake linings.
>>>
>>> That and poorly adjusted brakes.
>>>
>>> I see no point in adjusting brakes without checking them for wear first
>>> though, since wear is what makes them go out of adjustment. I suppose I
>>> should advise people to check the brake shoes before adjusting them, but
>>> when one assumes as much intelligence as I assume, some stuff goes
>>> unsaid. Sorry if I assumed the OP was intelligent.[/color]
>>
>> Rear drum brakes go out of adjustment due to brake lining wear, whether
>> the car has rear drum or disc brakes. Since rear drum brakes need
>> adjustment due to wear, the root cause of long pedal travel would be the
>> worn linings, not the out-of-adjustment condition. The rear brakes
>> auto-adjust by applying the parking brake.[/color]
>
>
> Yes, it a perfect world, the rear brakes would always self adjust (btw,
> they do this by stopping while going backwards), but the world isn't
> always perfect.[/color]

Not all self-adjusting brakes are activated by stopping while going
backwards. Some are activated by using the parking brake.
[color=blue]
>
> The brakes can easily wear while the self adjusters take a vacation, and
> the recovery action is to adjust them manually to get the pedal travel
> back in line. Certainly, the brakes can wear to the point they require
> replacement, but replacement isn't always required when the pedal travel
> is long.[/color]

You just made my point that the root cause of the low pedal is wear;
adjustment is the remedy. ;-)

[color=blue]
>
> This is a moot point though because the OP said he adjusted the brakes
> already.[/color]

The OP said that he knows to check brake adjustment, he did not say that he
adjusted the brakes so we do not know whether or not he actually adjusted
them or tried using the parking brake to activate the self-adjusters.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

"Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOTcomn> wrote in message
news:a677f$446024f7$180fead6$31158@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=blue]
>
> "Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:m6CdndxZ5400dcLZnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@ez2.net...[color=green]
>>
>> "Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOTcomn> wrote in message
>> news:7b3d8$445ec5d2$180fead6$18032@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=darkred]
>>>
>>> "Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:3aSdnQGra-PZmsPZnZ2dnUVZ_u-dnZ2d@ez2.net...
>>>>
>>>> "Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOTcomn> wrote in message
>>>> news:617ce$445d69a7$180fead6$5407@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:ruqdnXlt-PNVxMDZnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@ez2.net...
>>>>>> You SAID you checked the rear brake adjustment, but this is the
>>>>>> single most common problem when the brake pedal has a long travel.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> The most common cause of long brake pedal travel is worn brake
>>>>> linings.
>>>>
>>>> That and poorly adjusted brakes.
>>>>
>>>> I see no point in adjusting brakes without checking them for wear first
>>>> though, since wear is what makes them go out of adjustment. I suppose I
>>>> should advise people to check the brake shoes before adjusting them,
>>>> but when one assumes as much intelligence as I assume, some stuff goes
>>>> unsaid. Sorry if I assumed the OP was intelligent.
>>>
>>> Rear drum brakes go out of adjustment due to brake lining wear, whether
>>> the car has rear drum or disc brakes. Since rear drum brakes need
>>> adjustment due to wear, the root cause of long pedal travel would be the
>>> worn linings, not the out-of-adjustment condition. The rear brakes
>>> auto-adjust by applying the parking brake.[/color]
>>
>>
>> Yes, it a perfect world, the rear brakes would always self adjust (btw,
>> they do this by stopping while going backwards), but the world isn't
>> always perfect.[/color]
>
> Not all self-adjusting brakes are activated by stopping while going
> backwards. Some are activated by using the parking brake.
>[color=green]
>>
>> The brakes can easily wear while the self adjusters take a vacation, and
>> the recovery action is to adjust them manually to get the pedal travel
>> back in line. Certainly, the brakes can wear to the point they require
>> replacement, but replacement isn't always required when the pedal travel
>> is long.[/color]
>
> You just made my point that the root cause of the low pedal is wear;
> adjustment is the remedy. ;-)
>
>[/color]

That's what I said in the first place, you replied that replacement was in
order.