Mom, Apple Pie and...Toyota?

Mom, Apple Pie and...Toyota?

[url]http://tinyurl.com/lvfda[/url]

Ford Says It's Patriotic to Buy
A Mustang, but Sienna Is Made
In Indiana With More U.S. Parts
By JATHON SAPSFORD and NORIHIKO SHIROUZU
May 11, 2006; Page B1

Few sports cars have captured the nation's imagination like the sleek Ford
Mustang, a 21st-century reincarnation of an American classic. The Toyota
Sienna minivan, by contrast, speaks to the utilitarian aesthetics of Japan:
refined interiors, arm rests and lots and lots of cup holders.

Yet, by a crucial measure, the Sienna is far more American than the Mustang.
Statistics from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration that were
publicized in "Auto Industry Update: 2006," a presentation by Farmington
Hills, Mich., research company CSM Worldwide, show only 65% of the content
of a Ford Mustang comes from the U.S. or Canada. Ford Motor Co. buys the
rest of the Mustang's parts abroad. By contrast, the Sienna, sold by Japan's
Toyota Motor Corp., is assembled in Indiana with 90% local components.

There's more than a little irony in this, considering Ford has launched a
campaign to regain its footing with an appeal to patriotism (catchphrase:
"Red, White & Bold"). "Americans really do want to buy American brands,"
asserted Ford Executive Vice President Mark Fields in a recent speech. "We
will compete vigorously to be America's car company."

As the Mustang shows, though, it's no longer easy to define what is
American. For 20 years now, the dynamic car makers of Asia -- led by Toyota,
Nissan Motor Co. and Honda Motor Co. -- have been pouring money into North
America, investing in plants, suppliers and dealerships as well as design,
testing and research centers. Their factories used to be derided as
"transplants," foreign-owned plants just knocking together imported parts.
Today, the Asian car makers are a fully functioning industry, big and
powerful enough to challenge Detroit's claim to the heart of U.S. car
manufacturing.

The result is a brewing public-relations war, with both sides wrapping
themselves in the Stars and Stripes. Toyota, for example has been running
commercials touting its contribution to the areas of the U.S. economy where
it has built factories.

Next year, the staid Toyota Camry will undergo the ultimate rite of passage
by entering the most prestigious circuits of the National Association of
Stock Car Racing. Toyota President Katsuaki Watanabe said his company's vast
network of dealerships saw the Nascar link as a crucial marketing tactic to
raise Toyota's profile in the U.S. heartland. "Our dealers told us it was
really important to do this," he says.

On Thursday, the Level Field Institute, a grass-roots organization founded
by U.S. Big Three retirees, is scheduled to hold a news conference in
Washington. Among the points the group is expected to make is its belief
that comparing relative North American component content is an ineffective
way to determine who is "more American" among auto makers. A better way,
says Jim Doyle who heads Level Field, is to look at the number of jobs --
from research and development to manufacturing to retailing -- each auto
maker creates per car sold in the U.S.

Mr. Doyle says the institute's study shows that Toyota in 2005 employed
roughly three times more U.S. workers, on a basis of per car sold in the
U.S., than Hyundai Motor Co. Each of the Big Three manufacturers in the same
year employed roughly three times as many U.S. workers, on a per-car-sold
basis, as Toyota. "What's better for the American economy?" Mr. Doyle asks.
A GM car "built in Mexico with 147,000 jobs back here in America or a Honda
built in Alabama with 4,000 or 5,000 jobs in America?"

Measuring local content is extremely difficult because a part made in
America can be assembled from smaller parts, some of which might come from
abroad. All of which underscores how the line between what is and isn't
American, at least in the auto industry, is "going to be increasingly
difficult to pinpoint" as car makers become increasingly international and
produce more in local markets, says Michael Robinet, a vice president at CSM
Worldwide.

General Motors Corp. is importing Korean-made cars to sell under the Chevy
nameplate. Japanese car makers are using American designers for cars being
sold in China. Some of the high end luxury BMW "imports" on the road are
made in South Carolina. "We don't look at it as an American industry," says
Mr. Robinet. "It really is a global industry."

That said, the Japanese manufacturing presence in the U.S. is growing.
Foreign-based auto makers in the U.S., led by the Japanese, account for 1.7%
of U.S. manufacturing jobs, according to a report by the Center for
Automotive Research, Ann Arbor, Mich. After $28 billion in cumulative North
America investment -- and annual purchases of parts reaching $45 billion or
more in recent years -- 67% of the Japanese-brand cars now sold in North
America are made in North America, according to the Japan Automobile
Manufacturers Association.

Japanese investment in U.S. production was a response to the trade tensions
of the 1990s, when tensions flared over Japan's surplus with the U.S., of
which autos and auto parts were a large portion. By spreading investment
across the U.S., Japan's car makers have won crucial allies among U.S.
politicians. Last year, when President Bush took to the road to tout his
Social Security plan, one of his first stops was a major Nissan plant in
Canton, Miss., a conservative corner of the country where the phrase "buy
American" no longer means what it once did.

"As the son of a union member, I'll admit that free trade is an issue with
which I've struggled," says Republican Sen. Trent Lott of Mississippi, who
has a Nissan Titan pickup truck in his garage. But he adds: "Remember that
every Nissan built in Canton also was engineered by Americans, for
Americans."

What isn't clear is how Mustang fans like Fred Barkley, president of the
Bluegrass Mustang Club of Lexington, Ky., would react to the news that the
Mustang is only 65% American, at least by one government measure. Mr.
Barkley, owner of three Mustangs, one from 1965 and two from the early
1990s, says it "doesn't bother me too much." Told the Toyota Sienna has
higher North American content than the Mustang, he is unimpressed. "I
wouldn't buy a Sienna," he says. "I don't like them because they are
foreign."
--
Life's tough.
It's tougher if you're stupid

John Wayne

In article <126900hbtrkps75@corp.supernews.com>
[email]gordian238@hotmail.com[/email] "Jim Higgins" writes:
[color=blue]
> What isn't clear is how Mustang fans like Fred Barkley, president of the
> Bluegrass Mustang Club of Lexington, Ky., would react to the news that the
> Mustang is only 65% American, at least by one government measure. Mr.
> Barkley, owner of three Mustangs, one from 1965 and two from the early
> 1990s, says it "doesn't bother me too much." Told the Toyota Sienna has
> higher North American content than the Mustang, he is unimpressed. "I
> wouldn't buy a Sienna," he says. "I don't like them because they are
> foreign."[/color]

There are non-thinkers everywhere. :-(

IIRC, Mustangs, source of the mystique behind the car's logo and
image, were foreign imports (by Spaniards) that went feral. ;-)
--
Andrew Stephenson

The V6 Mustang has a parts content label that says 65% American parts, the
V8 has a 90% American parts. The slider is a part like an engine that is
95% assembled China that has the final 5%, like the pans and fuel system,
assembled in Canada or Mexico gets added to the 'made in North America'
parts content.

The real answer as to what is an American car can be found in the first
number of the VIN. I. E. The Mustang VIN has a '1,' made in the US, the
Honda Accord has a '1.' The Nissan Titan has a '1.' The ONLY Toyotas that
have a '1' are those assembled in the GM/Toyota assembly plant in
California, where the UAW contract requires a 70% US content. The Sienna
VIN has a '4' not a '1.' The Tundra VIN has a '5' not a '1' A '1' means
at least 70% of the vehicles component parts, including the steel, plastic,
rubber etc are sourced in the US, not north America. On the other hand a
'4' means the vehicle was only assembled in the US of fewer than 70% US
component parts, but more than 40%. A '5' means assembled in the US but of
less than 40% US component parts.


mike hunt



"Jim Higgins" <gordian238@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:126900hbtrkps75@corp.supernews.com...[color=blue]
> Mom, Apple Pie and...Toyota?
>
> Ford Says It's Patriotic to Buy
> A Mustang, but Sienna Is Made
> In Indiana With More U.S. Parts[/color]

"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:Y3udnbK9wYKOBPnZUSdV9g@ptd.net...[color=blue]
> The V6 Mustang has a parts content label that says 65% American parts, the
> V8 has a 90% American parts. The slider is a part like an engine that is
> 95% assembled China that has the final 5%, like the pans and fuel system,
> assembled in Canada or Mexico gets added to the 'made in North America'
> parts content.
>
> The real answer as to what is an American car can be found in the first
> number of the VIN. I. E. The Mustang VIN has a '1,' made in the US, the
> Honda Accord has a '1.' The Nissan Titan has a '1.' The ONLY Toyotas
> that
> have a '1' are those assembled in the GM/Toyota assembly plant in
> California, where the UAW contract requires a 70% US content. The Sienna
> VIN has a '4' not a '1.' The Tundra VIN has a '5' not a '1' A '1' means
> at least 70% of the vehicles component parts, including the steel,
> plastic,
> rubber etc are sourced in the US, not north America. On the other hand a
> '4' means the vehicle was only assembled in the US of fewer than 70% US
> component parts, but more than 40%. A '5' means assembled in the US but
> of
> less than 40% US component parts.
>
>
> mike hunt
>[/color]

This information differs from the information on the DOT's web site that
lists VIN requirements:
[url]http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_05/49cfr565_05.html[/url]

This site does not mention anything about U.S. or North American content.
Perhaps the system that Mike is describing is one that is used by Ford and
GM but necessarily by other manufacturers?
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

If what you believe were actually true than why do the Camry and Tundra not
have a '1' as the first number of the VIN like those Toyotas made in the
GM/Toyota plant and the Accord and Titan and not the '4' and '5' that they
do have?

mike hunt


"Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOTcomn> wrote in message
news:cf01f$4464d409$44a4a10d$29174@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=blue]
>
> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
> news:Y3udnbK9wYKOBPnZUSdV9g@ptd.net...[color=green]
>> The V6 Mustang has a parts content label that says 65% American parts,
>> the
>> V8 has a 90% American parts. The slider is a part like an engine that is
>> 95% assembled China that has the final 5%, like the pans and fuel system,
>> assembled in Canada or Mexico gets added to the 'made in North America'
>> parts content.
>>
>> The real answer as to what is an American car can be found in the first
>> number of the VIN. I. E. The Mustang VIN has a '1,' made in the US, the
>> Honda Accord has a '1.' The Nissan Titan has a '1.' The ONLY Toyotas
>> that
>> have a '1' are those assembled in the GM/Toyota assembly plant in
>> California, where the UAW contract requires a 70% US content. The
>> Sienna
>> VIN has a '4' not a '1.' The Tundra VIN has a '5' not a '1' A '1'
>> means
>> at least 70% of the vehicles component parts, including the steel,
>> plastic,
>> rubber etc are sourced in the US, not north America. On the other hand a
>> '4' means the vehicle was only assembled in the US of fewer than 70% US
>> component parts, but more than 40%. A '5' means assembled in the US but
>> of
>> less than 40% US component parts.
>>
>>
>> mike hunt
>>[/color]
>
> This information differs from the information on the DOT's web site that
> lists VIN requirements:
> [url]http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_05/49cfr565_05.html[/url]
>
> This site does not mention anything about U.S. or North American content.
> Perhaps the system that Mike is describing is one that is used by Ford and
> GM but necessarily by other manufacturers?
> --
>
> Ray O
> (correct punctuation to reply)
>[/color]

A couple weeks ago, I began to think there is a reasonable explanation
why the 2006 Camrys made in Kentucky have a VIN starting with a "4" yet a
content label (or "origin sticker") showing "80 percent American parts."

With an origin sticker like that, the VINs should start with a 1. (I'm
talkin' 2006 now. I haven't looked at the 2007 origin stickers for the
Camry.)

Let's remember the VIN laws (or sets of regulations) and the "origin
sticker"
laws (or sets of regulations) are NOT the same law or set of regs.

The VIN regs precede the "origin sticker" regs by many years. So the
two sets of regulations must have different methods by which they compute
the percentage of American versus "foreign" parts.

Regarding the regs, I asked in December of last year [ACTUAL
QUOTE], "Are the engine and transmission counted as a single part
each; how does that work?" Question asked on 12/28/05. It's great that
Google
indexes all the posts.

Perhaps, as Mike hinted in his post earlier today, the newer origin sticker
regs just count the engine as a single part, for example (or maybe just
2 or 3 parts), but we all know an engine is made up of a gazillion parts,
possibly
many from America and many from Japan. The older VIN regs may go deeper
and analyze the engine makeup, etc.

Mike said earlier TODAY, "The slider is a part like [the] engine..."

And Mike mentioned that the VIN regs take into account many other
things "including the steel, plastic, rubber etc." So that probably
explains why a 2006 Camry with a VIN starting with a "4" can sport
an Origin Sticker showing "80 percent American parts."

But Mike, your answer today came about 5 months after my December
question :-P
and I had deduced the answer 2 weeks ago (and actually in December with
my question) :-P

Naw, in all seriousness, though, you know the auto laws and regulations
better than anybody here.

"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:iYCdnVd0JIe91fjZUSdV9g@ptd.net...[color=blue]
> If what you believe were actually true than why do the Camry and Tundra
> not have a '1' as the first number of the VIN like those Toyotas made in
> the GM/Toyota plant and the Accord and Titan and not the '4' and '5' that
> they do have?
>
> mike hunt[/color]

Mike,

If you go back and re-read my post, you'll see that I didn't say that I
believed anything. I honestly don't know, which is why I posted a question
and not a statement.

I am pretty sure that the initial production of FX 16's, Corollas, and
Prisms produced at the NUMMI plant were knock down units that were nowhere
near 70% U.S. content yet the first number of the VIN was "1" from day one.

I did some research and could not find any information that describes the
correlation between the first character in the VIN and U.S. content. I'm
not saying it isn't there, I'm just saying I couldn't find it. Can you help
us out and provide a reference?
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)
[color=blue]
>
>
> "Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOTcomn> wrote in message
> news:cf01f$4464d409$44a4a10d$29174@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=green]
>>
>> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
>> news:Y3udnbK9wYKOBPnZUSdV9g@ptd.net...[color=darkred]
>>> The V6 Mustang has a parts content label that says 65% American parts,
>>> the
>>> V8 has a 90% American parts. The slider is a part like an engine that
>>> is
>>> 95% assembled China that has the final 5%, like the pans and fuel
>>> system,
>>> assembled in Canada or Mexico gets added to the 'made in North America'
>>> parts content.
>>>
>>> The real answer as to what is an American car can be found in the first
>>> number of the VIN. I. E. The Mustang VIN has a '1,' made in the US,
>>> the
>>> Honda Accord has a '1.' The Nissan Titan has a '1.' The ONLY Toyotas
>>> that
>>> have a '1' are those assembled in the GM/Toyota assembly plant in
>>> California, where the UAW contract requires a 70% US content. The
>>> Sienna
>>> VIN has a '4' not a '1.' The Tundra VIN has a '5' not a '1' A '1'
>>> means
>>> at least 70% of the vehicles component parts, including the steel,
>>> plastic,
>>> rubber etc are sourced in the US, not north America. On the other hand
>>> a
>>> '4' means the vehicle was only assembled in the US of fewer than 70% US
>>> component parts, but more than 40%. A '5' means assembled in the US
>>> but of
>>> less than 40% US component parts.
>>>
>>>
>>> mike hunt
>>>[/color]
>>
>> This information differs from the information on the DOT's web site that
>> lists VIN requirements:
>> [url]http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_05/49cfr565_05.html[/url]
>>
>> This site does not mention anything about U.S. or North American content.
>> Perhaps the system that Mike is describing is one that is used by Ford
>> and GM but necessarily by other manufacturers?
>> --
>>
>> Ray O
>> (correct punctuation to reply)
>>[/color]
>
>[/color]

Ray O wrote:
[color=blue]
> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
> news:iYCdnVd0JIe91fjZUSdV9g@ptd.net...[color=green]
>>
>> { snipped }
>>
>> mike hunt[/color]
>
> Mike,
>
> If you go back and re-read my post, you'll see that I didn't say that I
> believed anything. I honestly don't know, which is why I posted a question
> and not a statement.
>
> I am pretty sure that the initial production of FX 16's, Corollas, and
> Prisms produced at the NUMMI plant were knock down units that were nowhere
> near 70% U.S. content yet the first number of the VIN was "1" from day one.
>
> I did some research and could not find any information that describes the
> correlation between the first character in the VIN and U.S. content. I'm
> not saying it isn't there, I'm just saying I couldn't find it. Can you help
> us out and provide a reference?[/color]

Do you really expect a troll like "Mike Hunt(er)" to provide a reference to
all the bullshit he constantly spews on here?

"High Tech Misfit" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2fjsem9jkdh1.dlg@hightech.misfit...[color=blue]
> Ray O wrote:
>[color=green]
>> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
>> news:iYCdnVd0JIe91fjZUSdV9g@ptd.net...[color=darkred]
>>>
>>> { snipped }
>>>
>>> mike hunt[/color]
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> If you go back and re-read my post, you'll see that I didn't say that I
>> believed anything. I honestly don't know, which is why I posted a
>> question
>> and not a statement.
>>
>> I am pretty sure that the initial production of FX 16's, Corollas, and
>> Prisms produced at the NUMMI plant were knock down units that were
>> nowhere
>> near 70% U.S. content yet the first number of the VIN was "1" from day
>> one.
>>
>> I did some research and could not find any information that describes the
>> correlation between the first character in the VIN and U.S. content. I'm
>> not saying it isn't there, I'm just saying I couldn't find it. Can you
>> help
>> us out and provide a reference?[/color]
>
> Do you really expect a troll like "Mike Hunt(er)" to provide a reference
> to
> all the bullshit he constantly spews on here?[/color]

Mike is usually correct when he posts facts. If one reads his posts
carefully, one can easily tell the difference between the facts and his
interpretation of the facts.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

Try a little logic. If there were no differences in the vehicles made in
the US why would there be THREE different numbers for vehicles made here?
If made in Canada the first number is simply a '2.' Mexico it is a '3.'
For the US the first digit is a '1' '4' or '5.' Think about it

mike hunt


"Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOTcomn> wrote in message
news:7e942$4466bba8$180fead6$31147@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=blue]
>
> "High Tech Misfit" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:2fjsem9jkdh1.dlg@hightech.misfit...[color=green]
>> Ray O wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
>>> news:iYCdnVd0JIe91fjZUSdV9g@ptd.net...
>>>>
>>>> { snipped }
>>>>
>>>> mike hunt
>>>
>>> Mike,
>>>
>>> If you go back and re-read my post, you'll see that I didn't say that I
>>> believed anything. I honestly don't know, which is why I posted a
>>> question
>>> and not a statement.
>>>
>>> I am pretty sure that the initial production of FX 16's, Corollas, and
>>> Prisms produced at the NUMMI plant were knock down units that were
>>> nowhere
>>> near 70% U.S. content yet the first number of the VIN was "1" from day
>>> one.
>>>
>>> I did some research and could not find any information that describes
>>> the
>>> correlation between the first character in the VIN and U.S. content.
>>> I'm
>>> not saying it isn't there, I'm just saying I couldn't find it. Can you
>>> help
>>> us out and provide a reference?[/color]
>>
>> Do you really expect a troll like "Mike Hunt(er)" to provide a reference
>> to
>> all the bullshit he constantly spews on here?[/color]
>
> Mike is usually correct when he posts facts. If one reads his posts
> carefully, one can easily tell the difference between the facts and his
> interpretation of the facts.
> --
>
> Ray O
> (correct punctuation to reply)
>[/color]

"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:CsScnd07iungr_rZUSdV9g@ptd.net...[color=blue]
> Try a little logic. If there were no differences in the vehicles made in
> the US why would there be THREE different numbers for vehicles made here?
> If made in Canada the first number is simply a '2.' Mexico it is a '3.'
> For the US the first digit is a '1' '4' or '5.' Think about it
>
> mike hunt
>[/color]

I did think about it, and that logic makes a lot of sense except that I do
not have an explanation for the initial run of FX's with a VIN beginning
with a 1 with less than 70% U.S. content and the Sienna with more than 70%
content beginning with a 4.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)



[color=blue]
> "Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOTcomn> wrote in message
> news:7e942$4466bba8$180fead6$31147@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=green]
>>
>> "High Tech Misfit" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>> news:2fjsem9jkdh1.dlg@hightech.misfit...[color=darkred]
>>> Ray O wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:iYCdnVd0JIe91fjZUSdV9g@ptd.net...
>>>>>
>>>>> { snipped }
>>>>>
>>>>> mike hunt
>>>>
>>>> Mike,
>>>>
>>>> If you go back and re-read my post, you'll see that I didn't say that I
>>>> believed anything. I honestly don't know, which is why I posted a
>>>> question
>>>> and not a statement.
>>>>
>>>> I am pretty sure that the initial production of FX 16's, Corollas, and
>>>> Prisms produced at the NUMMI plant were knock down units that were
>>>> nowhere
>>>> near 70% U.S. content yet the first number of the VIN was "1" from day
>>>> one.
>>>>
>>>> I did some research and could not find any information that describes
>>>> the
>>>> correlation between the first character in the VIN and U.S. content.
>>>> I'm
>>>> not saying it isn't there, I'm just saying I couldn't find it. Can you
>>>> help
>>>> us out and provide a reference?
>>>
>>> Do you really expect a troll like "Mike Hunt(er)" to provide a reference
>>> to
>>> all the bullshit he constantly spews on here?[/color]
>>
>> Mike is usually correct when he posts facts. If one reads his posts
>> carefully, one can easily tell the difference between the facts and his
>> interpretation of the facts.
>> --
>>
>> Ray O
>> (correct punctuation to reply)
>>[/color]
>
>[/color]

I explained that in a previous post. I'll try once more then I give up.
The Sienna has a '4' not a '1' because the standard that defines the first
digit designation of the VIN does not qualify the Sienna to have a '1.'

The parts label refers to PARTS only that are consider made in NORTH
America, US, Canada and Mexico. If a manufacture like Toyota buys a starter
from lets say the Japanese company Denso Global, that is assembled in Canada
of component parts made in China, that part qualifies as a NA part as part
to the part content on the content label.... If that part is one of the
parts on a content label, among other similar parts that total over 70%, the
content label will read 70% American parts evn though the part are not
American. The regulation that assigns VINs does not consider that part as
an AMERICAN part but Canadian, as opposed to say the steel in a V6 Mustang
made in America that has a parts label showing 65% because the Ford engine
and tranny in the car are from a European Ford factory..

I've seen Camrys made in Japan that obviously have little or no NM parts
that displays a content label that show the engine and tranny were made in
Japan yet states, 'this car LINE has 70% American parts' label, while
obviously THAT Camry does not.

The Lincoln LT truck that is based on the Ford F150 and made in one of the
Ford truck plants that also builds the F150 on the same line, that has a
content label that says 90% American parts. The first number of the VIN is
a '4' not a '1' as it is on the F150s. The reason is the wheels and the
interior, including the dash of the TL are completely different than the
F150 and made in Canada not Michigan as are the F150 wheels, interior and
dash thus dropping the total component content to just below 70% and thus a
'4' not a '1'


mike hunt


"Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOTcomn> wrote in message
news:68eb1$4467644f$180fead6$5636@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=blue]
>
> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
> news:CsScnd07iungr_rZUSdV9g@ptd.net...[color=green]
>> Try a little logic. If there were no differences in the vehicles made in
>> the US why would there be THREE different numbers for vehicles made here?
>> If made in Canada the first number is simply a '2.' Mexico it is a '3.'
>> For the US the first digit is a '1' '4' or '5.' Think about it
>>
>> mike hunt
>>[/color]
>
> I did think about it, and that logic makes a lot of sense except that I do
> not have an explanation for the initial run of FX's with a VIN beginning
> with a 1 with less than 70% U.S. content and the Sienna with more than 70%
> content beginning with a 4.
> --
>
> Ray O
> (correct punctuation to reply)
>
>
>
>[color=green]
>> "Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOTcomn> wrote in message
>> news:7e942$4466bba8$180fead6$31147@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=darkred]
>>>
>>> "High Tech Misfit" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>> news:2fjsem9jkdh1.dlg@hightech.misfit...
>>>> Ray O wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:iYCdnVd0JIe91fjZUSdV9g@ptd.net...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> { snipped }
>>>>>>
>>>>>> mike hunt
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike,
>>>>>
>>>>> If you go back and re-read my post, you'll see that I didn't say that
>>>>> I
>>>>> believed anything. I honestly don't know, which is why I posted a
>>>>> question
>>>>> and not a statement.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am pretty sure that the initial production of FX 16's, Corollas, and
>>>>> Prisms produced at the NUMMI plant were knock down units that were
>>>>> nowhere
>>>>> near 70% U.S. content yet the first number of the VIN was "1" from day
>>>>> one.
>>>>>
>>>>> I did some research and could not find any information that describes
>>>>> the
>>>>> correlation between the first character in the VIN and U.S. content.
>>>>> I'm
>>>>> not saying it isn't there, I'm just saying I couldn't find it. Can
>>>>> you help
>>>>> us out and provide a reference?
>>>>
>>>> Do you really expect a troll like "Mike Hunt(er)" to provide a
>>>> reference to
>>>> all the bullshit he constantly spews on here?
>>>
>>> Mike is usually correct when he posts facts. If one reads his posts
>>> carefully, one can easily tell the difference between the facts and his
>>> interpretation of the facts.
>>> --
>>>
>>> Ray O
>>> (correct punctuation to reply)
>>>[/color]
>>
>>[/color]
>
>[/color]

Mike Hunter wrote:[color=blue]
>
> The Lincoln LT truck that is based on the Ford F150 and
> made in one of the Ford truck plants that also builds the
> F150 on the same line...[/color]



Thank you, Mike, for that in-depth explanation. Very
informative. I learned a lot.

"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:-Q-dnRljvcqsRfrZUSdV9g@ptd.net...[color=blue]
>I explained that in a previous post. I'll try once more then I give up.
>The Sienna has a '4' not a '1' because the standard that defines the first
>digit designation of the VIN does not qualify the Sienna to have a '1.'
>
> The parts label refers to PARTS only that are consider made in NORTH
> America, US, Canada and Mexico. If a manufacture like Toyota buys a
> starter from lets say the Japanese company Denso Global, that is assembled
> in Canada of component parts made in China, that part qualifies as a NA
> part as part to the part content on the content label.... If that part is
> one of the parts on a content label, among other similar parts that total
> over 70%, the content label will read 70% American parts evn though the
> part are not American. The regulation that assigns VINs does not consider
> that part as an AMERICAN part but Canadian, as opposed to say the steel in
> a V6 Mustang made in America that has a parts label showing 65% because
> the Ford engine and tranny in the car are from a European Ford factory..
>
> I've seen Camrys made in Japan that obviously have little or no NM parts
> that displays a content label that show the engine and tranny were made in
> Japan yet states, 'this car LINE has 70% American parts' label, while
> obviously THAT Camry does not.
>
> The Lincoln LT truck that is based on the Ford F150 and made in one of the
> Ford truck plants that also builds the F150 on the same line, that has a
> content label that says 90% American parts. The first number of the VIN
> is a '4' not a '1' as it is on the F150s. The reason is the wheels and
> the interior, including the dash of the TL are completely different than
> the F150 and made in Canada not Michigan as are the F150 wheels, interior
> and dash thus dropping the total component content to just below 70% and
> thus a '4' not a '1'
>
>
> mike hunt
>[/color]

Good try! This explanation makes sense!
Thanks,

--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

And for FREE! I normally get paid quite well when I teach a class. LOL


mike hunt


"Built_Well" <bw@bbbb.com> wrote in message
news:WuudnZuMXcYGQvrZRVn-jQ@sysmatrix.net...[color=blue]
>
> Mike Hunter wrote:[color=green]
>>
>> The Lincoln LT truck that is based on the Ford F150 and
>> made in one of the Ford truck plants that also builds the
>> F150 on the same line...[/color]
>
>
>
> Thank you, Mike, for that in-depth explanation. Very
> informative. I learned a lot.
>
>
>[/color]