OFF TOPIC: Hey Geoff - what do you think of this?

[url]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12871944/[/url]

We were just discussing this - how odd.

Natalie

Wickeddoll®, 5/19/2006,6:54:56 PM, wrote:
[color=blue]
>[url]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12871944/[/url]
>
>We were just discussing this - how odd.
>
>Natalie[/color]


No matter what happens someone will find a way to take it too seriously.

"badgolferman" <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:xn0emf6wjsejt4005@news.readfreenews.net...[color=blue]
> Wickeddoll®, 5/19/2006,6:54:56 PM, wrote:
>[color=green]
>>[url]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12871944/[/url]
>>
>>We were just discussing this - how odd.
>>
>>Natalie[/color]
>
>
> No matter what happens someone will find a way to take it too seriously.[/color]

I think he was out of line.

Natalie

Wickeddoll® <wickeddoll1958DIEspammersDIE@yahoo.com> writes:
[color=blue]
> [url]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12871944/[/url][/color]
[color=blue]
> We were just discussing this - how odd.[/color]


I don't think it was racist. Racism is the belief that some
races are superior to others. Through careless usage, the
term's meaning has become corrupted; it's used as a bludgeon
to dismiss anything said involving race that someone happens
not to like.

Why is it okay for entertainers to do impressions of European
stereotypes but not of black stereotypes? It's interesting
that there's a holiday that's based on the stereotype of the
drunken Irishman, but no one seems to take umbrage at _that_
stereotype.



Geoff

--
"That's very interesting, Mr. Lovecraft, and very well put too,
I might add, but I think we're looking for something a little
different here at VANITY FAIR."

Wickeddoll® <wickeddoll1958DIEspammersDIE@yahoo.com> writes:
[color=blue]
> I think he was out of line.[/color]


Natalie, would you have reacted any differently if the BBC guy
had said he was about to do an impression of a "big, fat" Italian
guy? Why or why not?

How about a Jewish guy?



Geoff

--
"That's very interesting, Mr. Lovecraft, and very well put too,
I might add, but I think we're looking for something a little
different here at VANITY FAIR."

Things are improving today, when I was your nobody called us black.


mike hunt


"Geoff Miller" <geoffm@u1.netgate.net> wrote in message
news:e4so86$1ee@u1.netgate.net...[color=blue]
>
>
> Wickeddoll® <wickeddoll1958DIEspammersDIE@yahoo.com> writes:
>[color=green]
>> I think he was out of line.[/color]
>
>
> Natalie, would you have reacted any differently if the BBC guy
> had said he was about to do an impression of a "big, fat" Italian
> guy? Why or why not?
>
> How about a Jewish guy?
>
>
>
> Geoff
>
> --
> "That's very interesting, Mr. Lovecraft, and very well put too,
> I might add, but I think we're looking for something a little
> different here at VANITY FAIR."
>[/color]

"Geoff Miller" <geoffm@u1.netgate.net> wrote in message
news:e4sf4m$pdk@u1.netgate.net...[color=blue]
>
>
> Wickeddoll® <wickeddoll1958DIEspammersDIE@yahoo.com> writes:
>[color=green]
>> [url]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12871944/[/url][/color]
>[color=green]
>> We were just discussing this - how odd.[/color]
>
>
> I don't think it was racist. Racism is the belief that some
> races are superior to others. Through careless usage, the
> term's meaning has become corrupted; it's used as a bludgeon
> to dismiss anything said involving race that someone happens
> not to like.
>
> Why is it okay for entertainers to do impressions of European
> stereotypes but not of black stereotypes? It's interesting
> that there's a holiday that's based on the stereotype of the
> drunken Irishman, but no one seems to take umbrage at _that_
> stereotype.
>
>
>
> Geoff
>[/color]

{hand raised} I know this one. I know this one. It's because what really
pisses 'em off is mentioning that they can't keep a house clean.

mark_

"Geoff Miller" <geoffm@u1.netgate.net> wrote in message
news:e4sf4m$pdk@u1.netgate.net...[color=blue]
>
>
> Wickeddoll® <wickeddoll1958DIEspammersDIE@yahoo.com> writes:
>[color=green]
>> [url]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12871944/[/url][/color]
>[color=green]
>> We were just discussing this - how odd.[/color]
>
>
> I don't think it was racist. Racism is the belief that some
> races are superior to others. Through careless usage, the
> term's meaning has become corrupted; it's used as a bludgeon
> to dismiss anything said involving race that someone happens
> not to like.
>
> Why is it okay for entertainers to do impressions of European
> stereotypes but not of black stereotypes? It's interesting
> that there's a holiday that's based on the stereotype of the
> drunken Irishman, but no one seems to take umbrage at _that_
> stereotype.
>
>
>
> Geoff[/color]

Sure they do, but the point was that this guy pulled that particular
stereotype out of his ass, for no apparent reason other than Berry being a
black woman.

What the hell was his point?

Natalie

"Geoff Miller" <geoffm@u1.netgate.net> wrote in message
news:e4so86$1ee@u1.netgate.net...[color=blue]
>
>
> Wickeddoll® <wickeddoll1958DIEspammersDIE@yahoo.com> writes:
>[color=green]
>> I think he was out of line.[/color]
>
>
> Natalie, would you have reacted any differently if the BBC guy
> had said he was about to do an impression of a "big, fat" Italian
> guy? Why or why not?
>
> How about a Jewish guy?
>
>
>
> Geoff[/color]

You probably won't believe me, but I think he would have been equally out
of line. Why did he feel the need to do that? Moreover, Berry was his
guest. It was rude.

Natalie

Wickeddoll® <wickeddoll1958DIEspammersDIE@yahoo.com> writes:
[color=blue]
> Sure they do, but the point was that this guy pulled that
> particular stereotype out of his ass, for no apparent reason
> other than Berry being a black woman.[/color]

What evidence do you have of that? With all due respect, I
think you're going out of your way to take offense.

My impression of the incident is based on the description of
the events in the article, which is all either of us has to
go on. Yours, on the other hand, is based on supposition: what
you believe was going thorugh the guy's mind at the time. The
thing is, you have no way of knowing what he was thinking, and
yet you default to the assumption that he was beling deliberately
offensive. Where I come from, that's known as having a chip on
one's shoulder.

[color=blue]
> What the hell was his point?[/color]

Rereading the article, my take on it is (still) that Moyles, a Brit,
was caught up in the moment and reached for an American -- specif-
ically, a New York -- stereotype to do an impression of, and that
just by chance, the one he happened to seize on was that of a black
Brooklyn thug.

Why would he have deliberately tried to offend a guest on his show?
What possible gain would there have been for him?

And what reason did Berry have to take offense? Was she suggesting
that there are no black thugs in New York City? That would be a
ridiculous claim, of course. So...what exactly was the problem?

No, all New York thugs aren't black...but *that* one, the one that
Moyles did an impression of, was. So what? Not all Jews are
neurotic...but the one that Woody Allen played in so many of his
films was. And yet, no one seems to believe that Allen was
consumed with self-loathing when he made those films.



Geoff

--
"Yep, ain't it a shame? Here we stand, with our Cokes, our
Beavis-n-Buttheads and our carrier battlegroups. We rule.
You suck." -- Ken Strayhorn

"Geoff Miller" <geoffm@u1.netgate.net> wrote in message
news:e5ng0d$7vt@u1.netgate.net...[color=blue]
>[/color]

Well, I suppose I *did* ask you...[color=blue]
>
> Wickeddoll® <wickeddoll1958DIEspammersDIE@yahoo.com> writes:
>[color=green]
>> Sure they do, but the point was that this guy pulled that
>> particular stereotype out of his ass, for no apparent reason
>> other than Berry being a black woman.[/color]
>
> What evidence do you have of that? With all due respect, I
> think you're going out of your way to take offense.[/color]

You haven't given me any other conclusion. It was a pointless, unnecessary
gaffe.[color=blue]
>
> My impression of the incident is based on the description of
> the events in the article, which is all either of us has to
> go on. Yours, on the other hand, is based on supposition: what
> you believe was going thorugh the guy's mind at the time. The
> thing is, you have no way of knowing what he was thinking, and
> yet you default to the assumption that he was beling deliberately
> offensive. Where I come from, that's known as having a chip on
> one's shoulder.[/color]

I was going by the article, but you seem to think I'm a reactionary of some
type. I think just about anyone here can tell you I don't cry
discrimination easily. Far from it. Guy's an ass IMO, but I can
appreciate your POV, too. That's why I asked.[color=blue]
>
>[color=green]
>> What the hell was his point?[/color]
>
> Rereading the article, my take on it is (still) that Moyles, a Brit,
> was caught up in the moment and reached for an American -- specif-
> ically, a New York -- stereotype to do an impression of, and that
> just by chance, the one he happened to seize on was that of a black
> Brooklyn thug.[/color]

Bad idea, but we're going in circles. He should have just asked her about
her film, or something else to do with her professionally; that's what
these types of things are for, not for him to trot out his lame standup
act.[color=blue]
>
> Why would he have deliberately tried to offend a guest on his show?
> What possible gain would there have been for him?[/color]

I don't think he did it deliberately, I just think he exhibited very poor
taste and judgement.[color=blue]
>
> And what reason did Berry have to take offense? Was she suggesting
> that there are no black thugs in New York City? That would be a
> ridiculous claim, of course. So...what exactly was the problem?[/color]

No, but do you want anyone to keep bringing up the painfully negative
aspects of *your* culture? I don't think most of us are proud to be
associated with thugs, and this guy's comment only amplifies the need to
get away from that bullshit.[color=blue]
>
> No, all New York thugs aren't black...but *that* one, the one that
> Moyles did an impression of, was. So what? Not all Jews are
> neurotic...but the one that Woody Allen played in so many of his
> films was. And yet, no one seems to believe that Allen was
> consumed with self-loathing when he made those films.
>
>
>
> Geoff[/color]

First of all, I do dislike, and always have despised Woody Allen - even
before the Soon Yi thing. Not being Jewish, I don't feel qualified to
comment on how accurately he portrays them. It's interesting that you
bring Jews up so often, but that's another argument for another time - not
with *me* though...

Thanks for you input!

Natalie