Lexus, baby, Lexus

I really love my Camry, but occasionally I get buyer's remorse and
think I shoulda dropped an extra 10k for the intro Lexus IS 250 or
ES 330. Would anyone know if these '06 Lexus models were selling at
invoice (or perhaps under invoice) like the '06 Camry was last year?

I bought the Camry for about $1,200 under invoice. Do you think the
same would have been possible for the '06 intro Lexus models?

Also, would you happen to know if the size of the interior space is
about equal between the '06 Camry and the IS 250? I mean the intro
Lexus isn't a small-size sedan like the intro BMW 3 Series model is
it? (Looks like the IS 250 is three-quarters of a foot shorter in
length than the '06 Camry LE.)

On 27 May 2006 17:56:27 -0700, "Built_Well"
<Built_Well_Toyota@hotmail.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>I really love my Camry, but occasionally I get buyer's remorse and
>think I shoulda dropped an extra 10k for the intro Lexus IS 250 or
>ES 330. Would anyone know if these '06 Lexus models were selling at
>invoice (or perhaps under invoice) like the '06 Camry was last year?
>
>I bought the Camry for about $1,200 under invoice. Do you think the
>same would have been possible for the '06 intro Lexus models?
>
>Also, would you happen to know if the size of the interior space is
>about equal between the '06 Camry and the IS 250? I mean the intro
>Lexus isn't a small-size sedan like the intro BMW 3 Series model is
>it? (Looks like the IS 250 is three-quarters of a foot shorter in
>length than the '06 Camry LE.)[/color]

Why the remorse. What features are you looking for that the Lexus has
but the Camry does not?

From my experience, it's been much easier to negotiate with a Toyota
dealer than a Lexus dealer. That's probably because the Lexus dealers
enjoy exclusive markets for the most part.

As far as their interior dimensions, you can research this yourself.
Go to both their websites and compare their dimensions. From my
understanding, the IS is smaller in the interior, partly due to being
a rear-wheel drive.

On 27 May 2006 17:56:27 -0700, "Built_Well"
<Built_Well_Toyota@hotmail.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Also, would you happen to know if the size of the interior space is
>about equal between the '06 Camry and the IS 250? I mean the intro
>Lexus isn't a small-size sedan like the intro BMW 3 Series model is
>it? (Looks like the IS 250 is three-quarters of a foot shorter in
>length than the '06 Camry LE.)[/color]

No comparison; the IS is really cramped compared to the Camry. The
ES330 is slight larger in the back than the Camry.

On Sun, 28 May 2006 05:48:12 UTC, Viperkiller <nothing@nothing.net>
wrote:
[color=blue]
> On 27 May 2006 17:56:27 -0700, "Built_Well"
> <Built_Well_Toyota@hotmail.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
> >I really love my Camry, but occasionally I get buyer's remorse and
> >think I shoulda dropped an extra 10k for the intro Lexus IS 250 or
> >ES 330. Would anyone know if these '06 Lexus models were selling at
> >invoice (or perhaps under invoice) like the '06 Camry was last year?
> >[/color][/color]

At least in the previous generation, the IS was a completely different
car from the ES, and I can't imagine there was much overlap in the
people who bought them. The ES is a very nice car, but it stresses
comfort, and even Consumer Reports notes that nobody could call it
very sporty or fun to drive. The IS, otoh, was deliberatey and
proudly "rough around the edges." Its interior and exterior styling
were from the "in your face" school. It was very fast, and very
nimble, but it was tight inside, had a miniscule trunk, and had a
fairly stiff ride. It had rear-wheel drive and (most shipped) with
17" Z or W-rated performance tires that stuck like glue but wore out
quickly and were actually dangerous in snow. The ES was competing
with the C-class Mercedes while the IS competed with the 3-series BMW.

My sense is that for better or worse, Lexus filed down most of the
rough edges in the current IS250-350. The styling is still somewhat
more aggressive than the normal Lexus, but this time the car is based
on a shortened GS chassis, rather than its own chassis. As a result,
the ride is smoother, but interestingly, although Consumer Reports
gave the IS250 its nod as the best car in its class (including the new
3-Series, the Saab, and others), they also noted that it's no longer
very sporty.

However the IS300 had Toyota's venerable 3-liter straight six which
goes back to the Supra in the early 80s. It was heavy (cast iron
block), and used a lot of gas, although allegedly it took to
turbocharging very well, and was easy to soup up to put out 400-600 hp
from its stock 215 in the IS (and 220 in the GS, since the GS had room
under the hood to install dual exhausts). The current IS has a
new-design 3.5 liter V-6, which puts out nearly 100 hp more than the
old IS did, and actually manages to get better mileage. So while the
new IS350 isn't sporty, it certainly is fast.

Personally, I like a "driver's car" and don't mind that my 02 manual
tranny IS is a bit rough around the edges. In fact, I like it.
Unfortunately, Toyota, even when they set out to build a sporty car,
seems unable or unwilling to assemble anything other than marshmellows
on wheels. If I had to replace the IS today I don't know what I'd do,
since you can't get a stick shift in the 350, and I think the car's
too soft anyway. I might consider the 3-series BMW, but their
reliability doesn't even come within artillery range of a Toyota's,
and their current styling is even uglier than the IS. So I've
resolved to keep my IS300 until the wheels fall off, or at least until
someone comes up with a car that is reliable, sporty, and doesn't look
like it was designed by either a committee or someone who's spent
their entire life watching anime cartoons.

You're very smart to have bought the Camry instead of the ES. Better
transmission at a lower price for an almost identical car. Only thing you
might miss is the coffee in the Lexus service center and loaner car (if they
have one), but you would pay much more for the Lexus service. I speak as an
embarrassed ES owner. Put that $10K that you saved into a retirement account
and let it compound and you'll be even happier. After having had the ES for
about 2 years now, I have to admit I was an idiot for buying it in favor of
the Camry. To my defense, when I went into the local Toyota dealership to
look at the Camry, they didn't have one in the showroom or any in stock!!!!
I needed a car asap so went with the Lexus. What an putz I am.


"Built_Well" <Built_Well_Toyota@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1148777787.875122.160640@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>I really love my Camry, but occasionally I get buyer's remorse and
> think I shoulda dropped an extra 10k for the intro Lexus IS 250 or
> ES 330. Would anyone know if these '06 Lexus models were selling at
> invoice (or perhaps under invoice) like the '06 Camry was last year?
>
> I bought the Camry for about $1,200 under invoice. Do you think the
> same would have been possible for the '06 intro Lexus models?
>
> Also, would you happen to know if the size of the interior space is
> about equal between the '06 Camry and the IS 250? I mean the intro
> Lexus isn't a small-size sedan like the intro BMW 3 Series model is
> it? (Looks like the IS 250 is three-quarters of a foot shorter in
> length than the '06 Camry LE.)
>[/color]

In article <soieg.1178$ho6.766@trnddc07>,
"Mack" <ICH0R0426@hotmail.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
> After having had the ES for
> about 2 years now, I have to admit I was an idiot for buying it in favor of
> the Camry.[/color]

The answer to that is to buy used.

Built_Well wrote:[color=blue]
> I really love my Camry, but occasionally I get buyer's remorse and
> think I shoulda dropped an extra 10k for the intro Lexus IS 250 or
> ES 330. Would anyone know if these '06 Lexus models were selling at
> invoice (or perhaps under invoice) like the '06 Camry was last year?[/color]

Both the Lexus models are too new for those big discounts.
[color=blue]
>
> I bought the Camry for about $1,200 under invoice. Do you think the
> same would have been possible for the '06 intro Lexus models?
>[/color]
Nope.
[color=blue]
> Also, would you happen to know if the size of the interior space is
> about equal between the '06 Camry and the IS 250?[/color]

Really small back seat in the IS.

Want a near-luxury bargain? Acura TL can be had for near invoice.
Of course, at this point your best deal is to hang onto the Camry. Put
a set of good tires on the Camry and it will feel like a different car;
way cheaper than actually buying a different car.

"ACAR" <getoutanpush@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1148863632.735509.99220@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> Built_Well wrote:[color=green]
>> I really love my Camry, but occasionally I get buyer's remorse and
>> think I shoulda dropped an extra 10k for the intro Lexus IS 250 or
>> ES 330. Would anyone know if these '06 Lexus models were selling at
>> invoice (or perhaps under invoice) like the '06 Camry was last year?[/color]
>
> Both the Lexus models are too new for those big discounts.
>[color=green]
>>
>> I bought the Camry for about $1,200 under invoice. Do you think the
>> same would have been possible for the '06 intro Lexus models?
>>[/color]
> Nope.
>[color=green]
>> Also, would you happen to know if the size of the interior space is
>> about equal between the '06 Camry and the IS 250?[/color]
>
> Really small back seat in the IS.
>
> Want a near-luxury bargain? Acura TL can be had for near invoice.[/color]

I was going to suggest an Acura too. I am very impressed by my 2 new
Honda's and if I wanted to go upscale I would definitely look at the Acura.
The Honda's remind me of how precisely Toyota's used to be made.

Art <begunaNOSPAMPLEASE@mindspring.com> writes:
[color=blue]
> I was going to suggest an Acura too. I am very impressed by
> my 2 new Honda's and if I wanted to go upscale I would definitely
> look at the Acura.[/color]


The problem with Acuras is that Honda doesn't understand the concept
of "rear seat legroom." I sat in the back seat of an RL at a local
car show not long after the latest version came out, and I had to
turn my feet sideways in order to extricate them from the rear foot-
well. I think my original-bodystyle '81 Accord sedan had more rear
legroom than that top-of-the-line car did. Mayhaps Honda should de-
emphasize the high-tech geegaws like realtime traffic condition
reporting in its nav systems and get back to basics. Build a decent
car first, _then_ think about the toys to load it up with.



Geoff

--
"We're in a fuckin' stagmire!" -- Little Carmine

I agree. This was one of two reasons I originally decided against the
RL. The other being that at that weight, the car didn't seem to respond
very athletically to acceleration.

Also don't go to dealer service departments...find a local mom and pop
garage that works on your vehicle type and use him. Who do you think pays
for that "free" coffee, loaner car, service reps, car wash and etc the
dealer service department has ???? I use a local chap who works only on
Honda & Toyota products. I drive an Acura 3.2 TL but the argument is still
the same.


"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-8E491F.11045728052006@nntp2.usenetserver.com...[color=blue]
> In article <soieg.1178$ho6.766@trnddc07>,
> "Mack" <ICH0R0426@hotmail.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
> > After having had the ES for
> > about 2 years now, I have to admit I was an idiot for buying it in favor[/color][/color]
of[color=blue][color=green]
> > the Camry.[/color]
>
> The answer to that is to buy used.
>[/color]

On Sun, 28 May 2006 04:40:00 -0500, "Mark Klebanoff"
<maxikins@os2bbs.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>On Sun, 28 May 2006 05:48:12 UTC, Viperkiller <nothing@nothing.net>
>wrote:
>[color=green]
>> On 27 May 2006 17:56:27 -0700, "Built_Well"
>> <Built_Well_Toyota@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>> >I really love my Camry, but occasionally I get buyer's remorse and
>> >think I shoulda dropped an extra 10k for the intro Lexus IS 250 or
>> >ES 330. Would anyone know if these '06 Lexus models were selling at
>> >invoice (or perhaps under invoice) like the '06 Camry was last year?
>> >[/color][/color]
>
>At least in the previous generation, the IS was a completely different
>car from the ES, and I can't imagine there was much overlap in the
>people who bought them. The ES is a very nice car, but it stresses
>comfort, and even Consumer Reports notes that nobody could call it
>very sporty or fun to drive. The IS, otoh, was deliberatey and
>proudly "rough around the edges." Its interior and exterior styling
>were from the "in your face" school. It was very fast, and very
>nimble, but it was tight inside, had a miniscule trunk, and had a
>fairly stiff ride. It had rear-wheel drive and (most shipped) with
>17" Z or W-rated performance tires that stuck like glue but wore out
>quickly and were actually dangerous in snow. The ES was competing
>with the C-class Mercedes while the IS competed with the 3-series BMW.
>
>My sense is that for better or worse, Lexus filed down most of the
>rough edges in the current IS250-350. The styling is still somewhat
>more aggressive than the normal Lexus, but this time the car is based
>on a shortened GS chassis, rather than its own chassis. As a result,
>the ride is smoother, but interestingly, although Consumer Reports
>gave the IS250 its nod as the best car in its class (including the new
>3-Series, the Saab, and others), they also noted that it's no longer
>very sporty.
>
>However the IS300 had Toyota's venerable 3-liter straight six which
>goes back to the Supra in the early 80s. It was heavy (cast iron
>block), and used a lot of gas, although allegedly it took to
>turbocharging very well, and was easy to soup up to put out 400-600 hp
>from its stock 215 in the IS (and 220 in the GS, since the GS had room
>under the hood to install dual exhausts). The current IS has a
>new-design 3.5 liter V-6, which puts out nearly 100 hp more than the
>old IS did, and actually manages to get better mileage. So while the
>new IS350 isn't sporty, it certainly is fast.
>
>Personally, I like a "driver's car" and don't mind that my 02 manual
>tranny IS is a bit rough around the edges. In fact, I like it.
>Unfortunately, Toyota, even when they set out to build a sporty car,
>seems unable or unwilling to assemble anything other than marshmellows
>on wheels. If I had to replace the IS today I don't know what I'd do,
>since you can't get a stick shift in the 350, and I think the car's[/color]


I just don't get that. Why not offer a sport-package with a 6 speed
manual on the IS350 ? I think they are missing out on many potential
buyers. I testdrove the is250 because I want a manual and I thought it
was a dog and way too mushy. I do like the looks a lot better than the
is300.
[color=blue]
>too soft anyway. I might consider the 3-series BMW, but their
>reliability doesn't even come within artillery range of a Toyota's,
>and their current styling is even uglier than the IS. So I've
>resolved to keep my IS300 until the wheels fall off, or at least until
>someone comes up with a car that is reliable, sporty, and doesn't look
>like it was designed by either a committee or someone who's spent
>their entire life watching anime cartoons.[/color]

On Tue, 30 May 2006 02:27:55 UTC, RT <noyabusiness@yahoo.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
> I just don't get that. Why not offer a sport-package with a 6 speed
> manual on the IS350 ? I think they are missing out on many potential
> buyers. I testdrove the is250 because I want a manual and I thought it
> was a dog and way too mushy. I do like the looks a lot better than the
> is300.[/color]

I don't get it either. It just looks to me like Toyota is just not
interested in building a truly sporty car. It's a shame-- my IS300
was the only Lexus I'd even think twice about purchasing at any price.
The rest of the line is just a bunch of old men's cars. I thought
they were going in a good direction with the original IS, but i guess
that's not where they want to go.


--

"Built_Well" <Built_Well_Toyota@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1148777787.875122.160640@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>I really love my Camry, but occasionally I get buyer's remorse and
> think I shoulda dropped an extra 10k for the intro Lexus IS 250 or
> ES 330. Would anyone know if these '06 Lexus models were selling at
> invoice (or perhaps under invoice) like the '06 Camry was last year?
>
> I bought the Camry for about $1,200 under invoice. Do you think the
> same would have been possible for the '06 intro Lexus models?
>
> Also, would you happen to know if the size of the interior space is
> about equal between the '06 Camry and the IS 250? I mean the intro
> Lexus isn't a small-size sedan like the intro BMW 3 Series model is
> it? (Looks like the IS 250 is three-quarters of a foot shorter in
> length than the '06 Camry LE.)
>[/color]

The ES330 (2004) model was the worst piece of crap I have ever owned. It had
the fly-by-wire system, it's acceleration lag was as long as 2 seconds(lots
of complaints on nhtsa.gov). I understand the new ES has these issues
resolved.

Thanks for everyone's advice. I feel much better now about buying the
'06 Camry rather than splurging on a Lexis ES330.

Hmm, maybe I can buy a fake "L" badge at AutoZone and put that on my
Camry's front hood... You know like the fake Car Alarm blinking light
that
you can put on your dash. You used to be able to buy those at
AutoZone. Next time, I'll look for the "L."

Say doesn't Lincoln's emblem just look like an upside-down "L?"