Having trouble starting car...Corolla

I have a 96 corolla. And I recently had trouble starting it in the
morning. I have had this issue before. And usually changing the battery
was the correct remedy. So I changed the battery 5 days ago. And the
car had no trouble starting up until today. Right after work, at around
6:00 pm. I had a heck of a time getting the car to start. Could this be
the battery again? Or could there be underlying problems?

<henree21@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1151029962.485408.140100@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>I have a 96 corolla. And I recently had trouble starting it in the
> morning. I have had this issue before. And usually changing the battery
> was the correct remedy. So I changed the battery 5 days ago. And the
> car had no trouble starting up until today. Right after work, at around
> 6:00 pm. I had a heck of a time getting the car to start. Could this be
> the battery again? Or could there be underlying problems?
>[/color]

The only way to tell whether the problem is the battery or not is to test
the battery.

What symptoms are you experiencing? If you are hearing clicking sounds and
the battery checks out as OK, then check the condition of the contacts in
the starter relay. The contacts are available separately and are
replaceable.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

I haven't heard any clicking sounds. And the battery is brand new. What
contacts are you referring to?

<henree21@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1151033662.165473.135540@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>I haven't heard any clicking sounds. And the battery is brand new. What
> contacts are you referring to?
>[/color]
The contacts are inside the starter relay.

Start by measuring battery voltage. The battery voltage should be somewhere
between 12 and 14.4 volts. It battery voltage is OK, then check for battery
voltage at the starter. If there is no power at the starter, check power
coming out of the relay. If no power coming out of the relay but power is
going into the relay, then the contacts are suspect.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

On 22 Jun 2006 20:34:22 -0700, [email]henree21@gmail.com[/email] wrote:
[color=blue]
>I haven't heard any clicking sounds. And the battery is brand new. What
>contacts are you referring to?[/color]

Here is a link to a page showing the contacts and how to replace them.

It is one weak spot in our Toys...lol

On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 11:25:33 GMT, Scott in Florida
<askifyouwant@mindspring.net> wrote:
[color=blue]
>On 22 Jun 2006 20:34:22 -0700, [email]henree21@gmail.com[/email] wrote:
>[color=green]
>>I haven't heard any clicking sounds. And the battery is brand new. What
>>contacts are you referring to?[/color]
>
>Here is a link to a page showing the contacts and how to replace them.
>
>It is one weak spot in our Toys...lol[/color]

OOPS forgot the link

[url]http://www.off-road.com/toyota/tech/starter/index.html[/url]

<henree21@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1151029962.485408.140100@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>I have a 96 corolla. And I recently had trouble starting it in the
> morning. I have had this issue before. And usually changing the battery
> was the correct remedy. So I changed the battery 5 days ago. And the
> car had no trouble starting up until today. Right after work, at around
> 6:00 pm. I had a heck of a time getting the car to start. Could this be
> the battery again? Or could there be underlying problems?[/color]


When you try to start it, does the engine crank (turn over) the way it
normally does right before the car starts, or do you just get dead silence?

I had a Tercel from 1990 that was REALLY hard to start if the engine was
cold, it would crank and crank, and if you cranked it for long enough (being
careful not to overheat the battery) it would start, run like utter crap for
a few minutes, then start running fine.

If I recall correctly, it was an exhaust problem. Warm, it would start
right up. I am not sure how any exhaust problem could cause this, but I
think it might have had something to do with exhaust gas recirculation or
emissions stuff or something.

Ernie Sty wrote:[color=blue]
> <henree21@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1151029962.485408.140100@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...[color=green]
> >I have a 96 corolla. And I recently had trouble starting it in the
> > morning. I have had this issue before. And usually changing the battery
> > was the correct remedy. So I changed the battery 5 days ago. And the
> > car had no trouble starting up until today. Right after work, at around
> > 6:00 pm. I had a heck of a time getting the car to start. Could this be
> > the battery again? Or could there be underlying problems?[/color]
>
>
> When you try to start it, does the engine crank (turn over) the way it
> normally does right before the car starts, or do you just get dead silence?
>
> I had a Tercel from 1990 that was REALLY hard to start if the engine was
> cold, it would crank and crank, and if you cranked it for long enough (being
> careful not to overheat the battery) it would start, run like utter crap for
> a few minutes, then start running fine.
>
> If I recall correctly, it was an exhaust problem. Warm, it would start
> right up. I am not sure how any exhaust problem could cause this, but I
> think it might have had something to do with exhaust gas recirculation or
> emissions stuff or something.[/color]
You know what, one time I started it after several attepmts. And the
car made a chainsaw like sound for about 3 minutes. Could this be a
sign of an exhaust problem? I also had the mechanic check the battery,
and the alternator, and both are in fine condition. THe mechanic thinks
it could be the starter. But since that shop doesn't mess with
starters, he referred me elsewhere. So is this a starter problem, or an
exhaust problem? Or is it both?

<henree21@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1151206797.250729.24600@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>
> Ernie Sty wrote:[color=green]
>> <henree21@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1151029962.485408.140100@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...[color=darkred]
>> >I have a 96 corolla. And I recently had trouble starting it in the
>> > morning. I have had this issue before. And usually changing the battery
>> > was the correct remedy. So I changed the battery 5 days ago. And the
>> > car had no trouble starting up until today. Right after work, at around
>> > 6:00 pm. I had a heck of a time getting the car to start. Could this be
>> > the battery again? Or could there be underlying problems?[/color]
>>
>>
>> When you try to start it, does the engine crank (turn over) the way it
>> normally does right before the car starts, or do you just get dead
>> silence?
>>
>> I had a Tercel from 1990 that was REALLY hard to start if the engine was
>> cold, it would crank and crank, and if you cranked it for long enough
>> (being
>> careful not to overheat the battery) it would start, run like utter crap
>> for
>> a few minutes, then start running fine.
>>
>> If I recall correctly, it was an exhaust problem. Warm, it would start
>> right up. I am not sure how any exhaust problem could cause this, but I
>> think it might have had something to do with exhaust gas recirculation or
>> emissions stuff or something.[/color]
> You know what, one time I started it after several attepmts. And the
> car made a chainsaw like sound for about 3 minutes. Could this be a
> sign of an exhaust problem? I also had the mechanic check the battery,
> and the alternator, and both are in fine condition. THe mechanic thinks
> it could be the starter. But since that shop doesn't mess with
> starters, he referred me elsewhere. So is this a starter problem, or an
> exhaust problem? Or is it both?
>[/color]

Check out the contacts on the starter relay. I doubt if it is an exhaust
problem.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

> Check out the contacts on the starter relay. I doubt if it is an exhaust[color=blue]
> problem.[/color]
Yeah I am pretty sure the solenoid contacts are a good choice of
culprit. But I don't know anything about cars. If I go to a mechanic to
look at the starter. How do I approach him, without looking like a
complete imbecile. I have always been a sucker for cons. The mechanic
may tell me I have thousands of dollars of work that needs to be done.
I like to be specific as possible when I have to get work done at the
shop. That way they think I know what I am talking about.

<henree21@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1151255890.861571.84830@r2g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...[color=blue][color=green]
>> Check out the contacts on the starter relay. I doubt if it is an exhaust
>> problem.[/color]
> Yeah I am pretty sure the solenoid contacts are a good choice of
> culprit. But I don't know anything about cars. If I go to a mechanic to
> look at the starter. How do I approach him, without looking like a
> complete imbecile. I have always been a sucker for cons. The mechanic
> may tell me I have thousands of dollars of work that needs to be done.
> I like to be specific as possible when I have to get work done at the
> shop. That way they think I know what I am talking about.
>[/color]

Pick a shop that employs technicians certified by the National Institute of
Automotive Service Excellence (ASE), preferably a shop that also has AAA
certification. A shop that goes to the trouble of going through the AAA
certification process and employs techs who take the time and effort to
become ASE certified is more likely to be honest and competent.

It is never a good idea to go to a repair shop and ask them to repair or
replace a specific component, i.e., the starter or starter contacts, unless
you are absolutely positive of your diagnosis. If your diagnosis was
incorrect, you have nobody to blame for the unnecessary work except
yourself. One should go to the repair shop and describe the symptoms as
clearly and completely as possible so that the technician working on the
vehicle can come to their own diagnosis and recommended repairs. When I
take one of my vehicles to a shop for service, I describe the symptoms, even
when I am pretty sure of the diagnosis myself. That said, having an idea of
the cause of the problem is a good reality check for the shop's diagnosis.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

"Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message
news:ea4cd$449ee397$180fead6$7258@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=blue]
>
> <henree21@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1151255890.861571.84830@r2g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> Check out the contacts on the starter relay. I doubt if it is an
>>> exhaust
>>> problem.[/color]
>> Yeah I am pretty sure the solenoid contacts are a good choice of
>> culprit. But I don't know anything about cars. If I go to a mechanic to
>> look at the starter. How do I approach him, without looking like a
>> complete imbecile. I have always been a sucker for cons. The mechanic
>> may tell me I have thousands of dollars of work that needs to be done.
>> I like to be specific as possible when I have to get work done at the
>> shop. That way they think I know what I am talking about.
>>[/color]
>
> Pick a shop that employs technicians certified by the National Institute
> of Automotive Service Excellence (ASE), preferably a shop that also has
> AAA certification. A shop that goes to the trouble of going through the
> AAA certification process and employs techs who take the time and effort
> to become ASE certified is more likely to be honest and competent.
>
> It is never a good idea to go to a repair shop and ask them to repair or
> replace a specific component, i.e., the starter or starter contacts,
> unless you are absolutely positive of your diagnosis. If your diagnosis
> was incorrect, you have nobody to blame for the unnecessary work except
> yourself. One should go to the repair shop and describe the symptoms as
> clearly and completely as possible so that the technician working on the
> vehicle can come to their own diagnosis and recommended repairs. When I
> take one of my vehicles to a shop for service, I describe the symptoms,
> even when I am pretty sure of the diagnosis myself. That said, having an
> idea of the cause of the problem is a good reality check for the shop's
> diagnosis.[/color]


Another good tip is to have them write on the estimate exactly what problem
it's intended to fix. A couple times I've taken a vehicle to some place for
a specific problem, they diagnosed a bad whatsis, asked me to approve
replacing it, they then replaced the whatsis and the problem was still
there. If you have them state on the estimate what the specific problem is
you want them to fix, you have more leverage when you say "Please replace
the part(s) you took out, take back the new one(s) and I'd like a full
refund since you did not fix the problem and clearly this faulty whatsis was
not the cause of it."

I've never done that, but at a Precision Tune I asked them specifically if
replacing a certain part would fix the problem, and when it didn't, they put
the old one back in and gave me a full refund after very little pushing.
They tried to use the excuse that the part they replaced was indeed bad, but
I countered with the fact that bad or not, I would not have paid to replace
it if they had not told me it would fix the problem. In retrospect, I'm
amazed that worked since I didn't have anything on paper, just a verbal
understanding.

"Ernie Sty" <fake_email@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:pKWdnWswWb3w4yjZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@giganews.com...[color=blue]
>
> "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message
> news:ea4cd$449ee397$180fead6$7258@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=green]
>>
>> <henree21@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1151255890.861571.84830@r2g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...[color=darkred]
>>>> Check out the contacts on the starter relay. I doubt if it is an
>>>> exhaust
>>>> problem.
>>> Yeah I am pretty sure the solenoid contacts are a good choice of
>>> culprit. But I don't know anything about cars. If I go to a mechanic to
>>> look at the starter. How do I approach him, without looking like a
>>> complete imbecile. I have always been a sucker for cons. The mechanic
>>> may tell me I have thousands of dollars of work that needs to be done.
>>> I like to be specific as possible when I have to get work done at the
>>> shop. That way they think I know what I am talking about.
>>>[/color]
>>
>> Pick a shop that employs technicians certified by the National Institute
>> of Automotive Service Excellence (ASE), preferably a shop that also has
>> AAA certification. A shop that goes to the trouble of going through the
>> AAA certification process and employs techs who take the time and effort
>> to become ASE certified is more likely to be honest and competent.
>>
>> It is never a good idea to go to a repair shop and ask them to repair or
>> replace a specific component, i.e., the starter or starter contacts,
>> unless you are absolutely positive of your diagnosis. If your diagnosis
>> was incorrect, you have nobody to blame for the unnecessary work except
>> yourself. One should go to the repair shop and describe the symptoms as
>> clearly and completely as possible so that the technician working on the
>> vehicle can come to their own diagnosis and recommended repairs. When I
>> take one of my vehicles to a shop for service, I describe the symptoms,
>> even when I am pretty sure of the diagnosis myself. That said, having an
>> idea of the cause of the problem is a good reality check for the shop's
>> diagnosis.[/color]
>
>
> Another good tip is to have them write on the estimate exactly what
> problem it's intended to fix. A couple times I've taken a vehicle to some
> place for a specific problem, they diagnosed a bad whatsis, asked me to
> approve replacing it, they then replaced the whatsis and the problem was
> still there. If you have them state on the estimate what the specific
> problem is you want them to fix, you have more leverage when you say
> "Please replace the part(s) you took out, take back the new one(s) and I'd
> like a full refund since you did not fix the problem and clearly this
> faulty whatsis was not the cause of it."
>
> I've never done that, but at a Precision Tune I asked them specifically if
> replacing a certain part would fix the problem, and when it didn't, they
> put the old one back in and gave me a full refund after very little
> pushing. They tried to use the excuse that the part they replaced was
> indeed bad, but I countered with the fact that bad or not, I would not
> have paid to replace it if they had not told me it would fix the problem.
> In retrospect, I'm amazed that worked since I didn't have anything on
> paper, just a verbal understanding.
>[/color]

Good advice! Especially at an independent or chain operation.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

"Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message
news:8c8a1$44b716e1$47e40e57$32502@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=blue]
>
> "Ernie Sty" <fake_email@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:pKWdnWswWb3w4yjZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@giganews.com...[color=green]
>>
>> "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message
>> news:ea4cd$449ee397$180fead6$7258@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=darkred]
>>>
>>> <henree21@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:1151255890.861571.84830@r2g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> Check out the contacts on the starter relay. I doubt if it is an
>>>>> exhaust
>>>>> problem.
>>>> Yeah I am pretty sure the solenoid contacts are a good choice of
>>>> culprit. But I don't know anything about cars. If I go to a mechanic to
>>>> look at the starter. How do I approach him, without looking like a
>>>> complete imbecile. I have always been a sucker for cons. The mechanic
>>>> may tell me I have thousands of dollars of work that needs to be done.
>>>> I like to be specific as possible when I have to get work done at the
>>>> shop. That way they think I know what I am talking about.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Pick a shop that employs technicians certified by the National Institute
>>> of Automotive Service Excellence (ASE), preferably a shop that also has
>>> AAA certification. A shop that goes to the trouble of going through the
>>> AAA certification process and employs techs who take the time and effort
>>> to become ASE certified is more likely to be honest and competent.
>>>
>>> It is never a good idea to go to a repair shop and ask them to repair or
>>> replace a specific component, i.e., the starter or starter contacts,
>>> unless you are absolutely positive of your diagnosis. If your diagnosis
>>> was incorrect, you have nobody to blame for the unnecessary work except
>>> yourself. One should go to the repair shop and describe the symptoms as
>>> clearly and completely as possible so that the technician working on the
>>> vehicle can come to their own diagnosis and recommended repairs. When I
>>> take one of my vehicles to a shop for service, I describe the symptoms,
>>> even when I am pretty sure of the diagnosis myself. That said, having
>>> an idea of the cause of the problem is a good reality check for the
>>> shop's diagnosis.[/color]
>>
>>
>> Another good tip is to have them write on the estimate exactly what
>> problem it's intended to fix. A couple times I've taken a vehicle to
>> some place for a specific problem, they diagnosed a bad whatsis, asked me
>> to approve replacing it, they then replaced the whatsis and the problem
>> was still there. If you have them state on the estimate what the
>> specific problem is you want them to fix, you have more leverage when you
>> say "Please replace the part(s) you took out, take back the new one(s)
>> and I'd like a full refund since you did not fix the problem and clearly
>> this faulty whatsis was not the cause of it."
>>
>> I've never done that, but at a Precision Tune I asked them specifically
>> if replacing a certain part would fix the problem, and when it didn't,
>> they put the old one back in and gave me a full refund after very little
>> pushing. They tried to use the excuse that the part they replaced was
>> indeed bad, but I countered with the fact that bad or not, I would not
>> have paid to replace it if they had not told me it would fix the problem.
>> In retrospect, I'm amazed that worked since I didn't have anything on
>> paper, just a verbal understanding.
>>[/color]
>
> Good advice! Especially at an independent or chain operation.
> --
>
> Ray O
> (correct punctuation to reply)[/color]


Thank you.

"Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message
news:8c8a1$44b716e1$47e40e57$32502@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=blue]
>
> "Ernie Sty" <fake_email@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:pKWdnWswWb3w4yjZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@giganews.com...[color=green]
>>
>> "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message
>> news:ea4cd$449ee397$180fead6$7258@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=darkred]
>>>
>>> <henree21@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:1151255890.861571.84830@r2g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> Check out the contacts on the starter relay. I doubt if it is an
>>>>> exhaust
>>>>> problem.
>>>> Yeah I am pretty sure the solenoid contacts are a good choice of
>>>> culprit. But I don't know anything about cars. If I go to a mechanic to
>>>> look at the starter. How do I approach him, without looking like a
>>>> complete imbecile. I have always been a sucker for cons. The mechanic
>>>> may tell me I have thousands of dollars of work that needs to be done.
>>>> I like to be specific as possible when I have to get work done at the
>>>> shop. That way they think I know what I am talking about.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Pick a shop that employs technicians certified by the National Institute
>>> of Automotive Service Excellence (ASE), preferably a shop that also has
>>> AAA certification. A shop that goes to the trouble of going through the
>>> AAA certification process and employs techs who take the time and effort
>>> to become ASE certified is more likely to be honest and competent.
>>>
>>> It is never a good idea to go to a repair shop and ask them to repair or
>>> replace a specific component, i.e., the starter or starter contacts,
>>> unless you are absolutely positive of your diagnosis. If your diagnosis
>>> was incorrect, you have nobody to blame for the unnecessary work except
>>> yourself. One should go to the repair shop and describe the symptoms as
>>> clearly and completely as possible so that the technician working on the
>>> vehicle can come to their own diagnosis and recommended repairs. When I
>>> take one of my vehicles to a shop for service, I describe the symptoms,
>>> even when I am pretty sure of the diagnosis myself. That said, having
>>> an idea of the cause of the problem is a good reality check for the
>>> shop's diagnosis.[/color]
>>
>>
>> Another good tip is to have them write on the estimate exactly what
>> problem it's intended to fix. A couple times I've taken a vehicle to
>> some place for a specific problem, they diagnosed a bad whatsis, asked me
>> to approve replacing it, they then replaced the whatsis and the problem
>> was still there. If you have them state on the estimate what the
>> specific problem is you want them to fix, you have more leverage when you
>> say "Please replace the part(s) you took out, take back the new one(s)
>> and I'd like a full refund since you did not fix the problem and clearly
>> this faulty whatsis was not the cause of it."
>>
>> I've never done that, but at a Precision Tune I asked them specifically
>> if replacing a certain part would fix the problem, and when it didn't,
>> they put the old one back in and gave me a full refund after very little
>> pushing. They tried to use the excuse that the part they replaced was
>> indeed bad, but I countered with the fact that bad or not, I would not
>> have paid to replace it if they had not told me it would fix the problem.
>> In retrospect, I'm amazed that worked since I didn't have anything on
>> paper, just a verbal understanding.
>>[/color]
>
> Good advice! Especially at an independent or chain operation.
> --[/color]


Ray, I know you are aware of this but for people who don't know:

Poor mechanics (and maybe even good ones at times) will often guess at
what's causing the problem and replace the most likely culprit. If the
first part they replaced doesn't fix the problem they'll try replacing
another one. The problem is, they rarely take off the new parts and
re-install the old ones if the old ones were not causing the problem,
charging you full parts and labor costs for replacing several parts that
aren't defective (and the replacements might even be cheap aftermarket junk
what will wear out prematurely) so you end up paying many times what it
should actually cost to fix the problem.

And this is one of the LEAST dishonest things bad mechanics do. They have
all kinds of tricks up their sleeves. If they were as good at fixing cars
as they were at extracting cash from suckers, they could fix it by thumping
the hood, like Fonzie on the jukebox...