do any of you ALSO own a Jetta or Passat?

Pardon me for asking this. Here's the deal.

I own two Toyota's, a '95 Land Cruiser with 120k, and an '06 Tundra.
It was sort of convoluted how i ended up with two sort of heavy-duty
(by my standards anyway) vehicles, and I love the Cruiser but reality
being what it is I need to get rid of it and get something that has
spectacular fuel economy. the fuel savings will be about $2000/yr at
$3 per gallon, as much as my wife drives. I'm in the middle of a
career change and would like to lower my monthly expenses.

I am not particularly interested in a hybrid. If I could afford to buy
new ones and trade them off with low miles, then I would be, but I
can't. My prediction is that when that 100k drivetrain warranty is
anywere near the horizon for the vehicle, it's value will plummet like
rock.

So I am at least exploring the idea of a Jetta TDi wagon. These rival
the economy of a Prius and also have the added bonus of being able to
run biodiesel. I'd like to get as personally disconnected from the
Middle East as is possible, and biodiesel is available and competitive
in my town, so that is a big plus for me.

However, the reputation of VW's STINK. So what I am asking is, do any
of you Toyota owners also own a modern, say post-2000, Jetta or Passat?
How has the overall reliability been? Would you buy a VW again? Is
it a huge difference between a Toyota and a modern VW?

Will the damn thing break my heart?

Thank you. I know this is an odd question. Believe me, if Toyota,
Honda, Subaru, or Nissan made a 45+ mpg turbodiesel, I would not even
be considering this.

-jeff

Jeff Olsen wrote:
[color=blue]
> However, the reputation of VW's STINK. So what I am asking is, do any
> of you Toyota owners also own a modern, say post-2000, Jetta or Passat?
> How has the overall reliability been? Would you buy a VW again? Is
> it a huge difference between a Toyota and a modern VW?
>[/color]
You are correct, VW's are junk. A friend of mine had to spend over $1000 in
repairs (electrical and what not) on his 2000 Golf TDI last year, and it had
only 100,000 miles on it at the time. And this is not unusual for VW's.

[color=blue]
> Will the damn thing break my heart?[/color]

It will break your heart and your wallet. The savings in gas will be lost
to the maintenance costs. If you are looking to buy a wagon, I would
consider a Toyota Matrix instead.

"High Tech Misfit" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:pn1hjpokiqes.dlg@hightech.misfit...[color=blue]
> Jeff Olsen wrote:
>[color=green]
>> However, the reputation of VW's STINK. So what I am asking is, do any
>> of you Toyota owners also own a modern, say post-2000, Jetta or Passat?
>> How has the overall reliability been? Would you buy a VW again? Is
>> it a huge difference between a Toyota and a modern VW?
>>[/color]
> You are correct, VW's are junk. A friend of mine had to spend over $1000
> in
> repairs (electrical and what not) on his 2000 Golf TDI last year, and it
> had
> only 100,000 miles on it at the time. And this is not unusual for VW's.
>
>[color=green]
>> Will the damn thing break my heart?[/color]
>
> It will break your heart and your wallet. The savings in gas will be lost
> to the maintenance costs. If you are looking to buy a wagon, I would
> consider a Toyota Matrix instead.[/color]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Or you might consider a Scion XB (or XA, the Matrix that was caught out in
the rain.) But forget VWs, since they're not your father's Beetle, but
troublesome, especially in their Bosch electrics. You'd be trading a pain
in your wallet for an upset stomach and a much larger pain in the wallet.

On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 00:50:13 -0700, Jeff Olsen wrote:
[color=blue]
> Pardon me for asking this. Here's the deal.
>
> I own two Toyota's, a '95 Land Cruiser with 120k, and an '06 Tundra.
> It was sort of convoluted how i ended up with two sort of heavy-duty
> (by my standards anyway) vehicles, and I love the Cruiser but reality
> being what it is I need to get rid of it and get something that has
> spectacular fuel economy. the fuel savings will be about $2000/yr at
> $3 per gallon, as much as my wife drives. I'm in the middle of a
> career change and would like to lower my monthly expenses.
>
> I am not particularly interested in a hybrid. If I could afford to buy
> new ones and trade them off with low miles, then I would be, but I
> can't. My prediction is that when that 100k drivetrain warranty is
> anywere near the horizon for the vehicle, it's value will plummet like
> rock.
>
> So I am at least exploring the idea of a Jetta TDi wagon. These rival
> the economy of a Prius and also have the added bonus of being able to
> run biodiesel. I'd like to get as personally disconnected from the
> Middle East as is possible, and biodiesel is available and competitive
> in my town, so that is a big plus for me.
>
> However, the reputation of VW's STINK. So what I am asking is, do any
> of you Toyota owners also own a modern, say post-2000, Jetta or Passat?
> How has the overall reliability been? Would you buy a VW again? Is
> it a huge difference between a Toyota and a modern VW?
>
> Will the damn thing break my heart?
>
> Thank you. I know this is an odd question. Believe me, if Toyota,
> Honda, Subaru, or Nissan made a 45+ mpg turbodiesel, I would not even
> be considering this.
>
> -jeff[/color]


I have had a Volvo, a Jetta and a BMW.

I will NEVER own another Eurpoean car as long as I live!!!!
I'll buy a Chevy first!!!!!!!

[color=blue]
> I have had a Volvo, a Jetta and a BMW.
>
> I will NEVER own another Eurpoean car as long as I live!!!!
> I'll buy a Chevy first!!!!!!![/color]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ironically, one of the most trouble-free cars I've owned was a Peugeot. And
I've owned a Renault Le Car, and a Simca many years ago that had no
particular problems,
except that French plastic tends to crystallize in sunshine.
Awful stuff. But the Peugeot was built like a bank vault.

Rented a Citroen C-3 in Ireland a few years ago and loved it....both my wife
and I agreed that if they were sold in the US we'd buy one.

But if you'd buy a Chevy, which one? The Suzuki? Or one made in Canada?

Jeff Olsen wrote:[color=blue]
> Pardon me for asking this. Here's the deal.
>
> I own two Toyota's, a '95 Land Cruiser with 120k, and an '06 Tundra.
> It was sort of convoluted how i ended up with two sort of heavy-duty
> (by my standards anyway) vehicles, and I love the Cruiser but reality
> being what it is I need to get rid of it and get something that has
> spectacular fuel economy. the fuel savings will be about $2000/yr at
> $3 per gallon, as much as my wife drives. I'm in the middle of a
> career change and would like to lower my monthly expenses.
>
> I am not particularly interested in a hybrid. If I could afford to
> buy new ones and trade them off with low miles, then I would be, but I
> can't. My prediction is that when that 100k drivetrain warranty is
> anywere near the horizon for the vehicle, it's value will plummet like
> rock.
>
> So I am at least exploring the idea of a Jetta TDi wagon. These rival
> the economy of a Prius and also have the added bonus of being able to
> run biodiesel. I'd like to get as personally disconnected from the
> Middle East as is possible, and biodiesel is available and competitive
> in my town, so that is a big plus for me.
>
> However, the reputation of VW's STINK. So what I am asking is, do any
> of you Toyota owners also own a modern, say post-2000, Jetta or
> Passat? How has the overall reliability been? Would you buy a VW
> again? Is it a huge difference between a Toyota and a modern VW?
>
> Will the damn thing break my heart?
>
> Thank you. I know this is an odd question. Believe me, if Toyota,
> Honda, Subaru, or Nissan made a 45+ mpg turbodiesel, I would not even
> be considering this.
>
> -jeff[/color]

Had a friend who purchased new and drove an 80s diesel Jetta with a
defective odometer that had stopped at 210000. He drove it for 3 or four
years after that. Finally, he had to trade it because the body had
practically disappeared. Brought a newer Jetta with the infamous 2L engine.
This guy never trades cars but the new Jetta was history in a couple of
years - replaced by a Civic. I wish VW was in a better position because the
new GTI sure looks good. Other than the crappy engine, my friends Jetta had
tons of electrical issues. Oddly, I don't think all of them were related to
workmanship. If looked into, I think one would find that the wiring itself
is of inferior quality or simply isn't/wasn't specd appropriately. I'd steer
clear.

On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 14:29:54 -0700, mack wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>[color=green]
>> I have had a Volvo, a Jetta and a BMW.
>>
>> I will NEVER own another Eurpoean car as long as I live!!!!
>> I'll buy a Chevy first!!!!!!![/color]
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Ironically, one of the most trouble-free cars I've owned was a Peugeot. And
> I've owned a Renault Le Car, and a Simca many years ago that had no
> particular problems,
> except that French plastic tends to crystallize in sunshine.
> Awful stuff. But the Peugeot was built like a bank vault.
>
> Rented a Citroen C-3 in Ireland a few years ago and loved it....both my wife
> and I agreed that if they were sold in the US we'd buy one.
>
> But if you'd buy a Chevy, which one? The Suzuki? Or one made in Canada?[/color]


I was going to post this in a separate thread yesterday, but I forgot:

There is a Chevy dealer in Worchester, MA that is advertising that Cobalts
are as well engineered and as reliable as Corollas!

Since it is an offshoot of the Cavalier, this remains to be seen. THe
later Cavaliers were crap. And the Cavalier was a replacement for the
Nova, which at the end was a Corolla Sprinter.

Nice try, but if I were to look at a chavy, I would look at the Cobalt. I
like what I see. Hopefully GM has learned a lesson!

I also looked at an HHR; cool trucklet, but it was the smaller motor with
an AT and couldn't get out of it's own way!

In article <PNhug.110$ZX6.15@trndny04>, Hachiroku <Trueno@ae86.GTS>
wrote:
[color=blue]
> Nice try, but if I were to look at a chavy, I would look at the Cobalt. I
> like what I see. Hopefully GM has learned a lesson!
>
> I also looked at an HHR; cool trucklet, but it was the smaller motor with
> an AT and couldn't get out of it's own way![/color]

Based on the Cobalt.

Get the big motor.

"Jeff Olsen" <handywired@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1152949813.646090.148210@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> Pardon me for asking this. Here's the deal.
>
> I own two Toyota's, a '95 Land Cruiser with 120k, and an '06 Tundra.
> It was sort of convoluted how i ended up with two sort of heavy-duty
> (by my standards anyway) vehicles, and I love the Cruiser but reality
> being what it is I need to get rid of it and get something that has
> spectacular fuel economy. the fuel savings will be about $2000/yr at
> $3 per gallon, as much as my wife drives. I'm in the middle of a
> career change and would like to lower my monthly expenses.
>
> I am not particularly interested in a hybrid. If I could afford to buy
> new ones and trade them off with low miles, then I would be, but I
> can't. My prediction is that when that 100k drivetrain warranty is
> anywere near the horizon for the vehicle, it's value will plummet like
> rock.
>[/color]

I am not trying to convince you to buy a hybrid, particularly since you are
trying to reduce your operating costs, but according to Kelley Blue Book,
the trade-in value for a 2001 Prius with 110,000 miles is $6,000 if the
vehicle is in fair condition, $7,300 in good condition. I didn't check the
retail value, but it is a safe bet that it is higher than the trade-in
value.
[color=blue]
> So I am at least exploring the idea of a Jetta TDi wagon. These rival
> the economy of a Prius and also have the added bonus of being able to
> run biodiesel. I'd like to get as personally disconnected from the
> Middle East as is possible, and biodiesel is available and competitive
> in my town, so that is a big plus for me.[/color]

Bio diesel is a good idea in theory. Check the availablility of biodiesel
in your area to make sure it is actually available and at a reasonable cost.
[color=blue]
>
> However, the reputation of VW's STINK. So what I am asking is, do any
> of you Toyota owners also own a modern, say post-2000, Jetta or Passat?
> How has the overall reliability been? Would you buy a VW again? Is
> it a huge difference between a Toyota and a modern VW?
>
> Will the damn thing break my heart?
>
> Thank you. I know this is an odd question. Believe me, if Toyota,
> Honda, Subaru, or Nissan made a 45+ mpg turbodiesel, I would not even
> be considering this.
>
> -jeff
>[/color]
There are conventional gasoline - powered vehicle whose mileage approach 45
MPG.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

Thanks, everyone, and keep it coming! I am really starting to think
I'd better not do this. The Land Cruiser is expensive to run, but it's
a beautiful machine and at least, generally, knock on wood, it's
expensive-ness is predictable. Sounds like a Jetta TDi would have
unpredictable expenses, to the extreme. They are telling me this even
over on the VW list.

-jeff


Ray O wrote:[color=blue]
> "Jeff Olsen" <handywired@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:1152949813.646090.148210@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=green]
> > Pardon me for asking this. Here's the deal.
> >
> > I own two Toyota's, a '95 Land Cruiser with 120k, and an '06 Tundra.
> > It was sort of convoluted how i ended up with two sort of heavy-duty
> > (by my standards anyway) vehicles, and I love the Cruiser but reality
> > being what it is I need to get rid of it and get something that has
> > spectacular fuel economy. the fuel savings will be about $2000/yr at
> > $3 per gallon, as much as my wife drives. I'm in the middle of a
> > career change and would like to lower my monthly expenses.
> >
> > I am not particularly interested in a hybrid. If I could afford to buy
> > new ones and trade them off with low miles, then I would be, but I
> > can't. My prediction is that when that 100k drivetrain warranty is
> > anywere near the horizon for the vehicle, it's value will plummet like
> > rock.
> >[/color]
>
> I am not trying to convince you to buy a hybrid, particularly since you are
> trying to reduce your operating costs, but according to Kelley Blue Book,
> the trade-in value for a 2001 Prius with 110,000 miles is $6,000 if the
> vehicle is in fair condition, $7,300 in good condition. I didn't check the
> retail value, but it is a safe bet that it is higher than the trade-in
> value.
>[color=green]
> > So I am at least exploring the idea of a Jetta TDi wagon. These rival
> > the economy of a Prius and also have the added bonus of being able to
> > run biodiesel. I'd like to get as personally disconnected from the
> > Middle East as is possible, and biodiesel is available and competitive
> > in my town, so that is a big plus for me.[/color]
>
> Bio diesel is a good idea in theory. Check the availablility of biodiesel
> in your area to make sure it is actually available and at a reasonable cost.
>[color=green]
> >
> > However, the reputation of VW's STINK. So what I am asking is, do any
> > of you Toyota owners also own a modern, say post-2000, Jetta or Passat?
> > How has the overall reliability been? Would you buy a VW again? Is
> > it a huge difference between a Toyota and a modern VW?
> >
> > Will the damn thing break my heart?
> >
> > Thank you. I know this is an odd question. Believe me, if Toyota,
> > Honda, Subaru, or Nissan made a 45+ mpg turbodiesel, I would not even
> > be considering this.
> >
> > -jeff
> >[/color]
> There are conventional gasoline - powered vehicle whose mileage approach 45
> MPG.
> --
>
> Ray O
> (correct punctuation to reply)[/color]

On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 02:48:15 GMT, Hachiroku <Trueno@ae86.GTS> wrote:

[snip]
[color=blue]
>I also looked at an HHR; cool trucklet, but it was the smaller motor with
>an AT and couldn't get out of it's own way![/color]

The HHR is _just_plain_Fugly! :-o

....

On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 22:24:54 -0500, Ray O wrote:
[color=blue]
>
> "Jeff Olsen" <handywired@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:1152949813.646090.148210@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=green]
>> Pardon me for asking this. Here's the deal.
>>
>> I own two Toyota's, a '95 Land Cruiser with 120k, and an '06 Tundra.
>> It was sort of convoluted how i ended up with two sort of heavy-duty
>> (by my standards anyway) vehicles, and I love the Cruiser but reality
>> being what it is I need to get rid of it and get something that has
>> spectacular fuel economy. the fuel savings will be about $2000/yr at
>> $3 per gallon, as much as my wife drives. I'm in the middle of a
>> career change and would like to lower my monthly expenses.
>>
>> I am not particularly interested in a hybrid. If I could afford to buy
>> new ones and trade them off with low miles, then I would be, but I
>> can't. My prediction is that when that 100k drivetrain warranty is
>> anywere near the horizon for the vehicle, it's value will plummet like
>> rock.
>>[/color]
>
> I am not trying to convince you to buy a hybrid, particularly since you are
> trying to reduce your operating costs, but according to Kelley Blue Book,
> the trade-in value for a 2001 Prius with 110,000 miles is $6,000 if the
> vehicle is in fair condition, $7,300 in good condition. I didn't check the
> retail value, but it is a safe bet that it is higher than the trade-in
> value.
>[color=green]
>> So I am at least exploring the idea of a Jetta TDi wagon. These rival
>> the economy of a Prius and also have the added bonus of being able to
>> run biodiesel. I'd like to get as personally disconnected from the
>> Middle East as is possible, and biodiesel is available and competitive
>> in my town, so that is a big plus for me.[/color]
>
> Bio diesel is a good idea in theory. Check the availablility of biodiesel
> in your area to make sure it is actually available and at a reasonable cost.
>[/color]

I am working in Brattleboro, and our boss is a 'greenie'. We were running
the building on BIO20, or 20% organic diesel fuel, and 80% dino oil. We
switched to BIO40.

It only costs us $16,000 a MONTH to generate our own electricity!!!!

And the place smells like a Fryolator...

It is certainly not cheap being 'green'!



[color=blue][color=green]
>>
>> However, the reputation of VW's STINK. So what I am asking is, do any
>> of you Toyota owners also own a modern, say post-2000, Jetta or Passat?
>> How has the overall reliability been? Would you buy a VW again? Is
>> it a huge difference between a Toyota and a modern VW?
>>
>> Will the damn thing break my heart?
>>
>> Thank you. I know this is an odd question. Believe me, if Toyota,
>> Honda, Subaru, or Nissan made a 45+ mpg turbodiesel, I would not even
>> be considering this.
>>
>> -jeff
>>[/color]
> There are conventional gasoline - powered vehicle whose mileage approach 45
> MPG.[/color]

[color=blue]
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Ironically, one of the most trouble-free cars I've owned was a Peugeot. And
> I've owned a Renault Le Car, and a Simca many years ago that had no
> particular problems,[/color]

Modern cars are getting more and more unreliable IMO, across the board.
Sure they might not be major mechanical faults (big ends etc) but the
niggling little electronic bits and complex suspension that gets clunky
after 50K miles is all due to over complexity and poses more of a cost
and impossition on the owner than the old cars where you had to swap
some big cheap chunks of metal every 50K and on it chugged.

Unfortunately we want refinement and green-ness too so we're shafted.

On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 14:33:42 -0700, Coyoteboy wrote:
[color=blue]
>[color=green]
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> Ironically, one of the most trouble-free cars I've owned was a Peugeot. And
>> I've owned a Renault Le Car, and a Simca many years ago that had no
>> particular problems,[/color]
>
> Modern cars are getting more and more unreliable IMO, across the board.
> Sure they might not be major mechanical faults (big ends etc) but the
> niggling little electronic bits and complex suspension that gets clunky
> after 50K miles is all due to over complexity and poses more of a cost
> and impossition on the owner than the old cars where you had to swap
> some big cheap chunks of metal every 50K and on it chugged.
>
> Unfortunately we want refinement and green-ness too so we're shafted.[/color]


I want my '80's Corollas, Celicas and Camrys back.

Man, they just ran FOREVER!!! Easy to fix, I thought they looked cool and
were inexpensive.

Just like I have said before, if GM wants to get out of the hole, dig up
the plans for the '64 Nova with the Straight 6...