Anyone suggest workable way to reinstall Toyota 4 Runner airbags ?

Anyone suggest most workable way to reinstall Toyota 4 Runner
airbags ?

The two front airbags have been deployed in a hand me down 2004 4
Runner. I cannot find an on-line price for replacement air bags.

Is this a dealer only item ?

Even so, any suggestions as to pricing and best way to go about it.

It seems that in California one cannot register with the DMV a 4
Runner without airbags installed. 'Not perfectly sure about this, but
looking.

Jennifer

PS

I actually would prefer to not have them, as I would prefer to handle
any trouble, in progress, wihout the airbag deploying and would prefer
to just make the dashboard ok, but I will not distaract the point of
this post with that personal preference.

On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 01:59:51 GMT, Jennifer <notspam-sec4251@yahoo.com>
wrote:
[color=blue]
>Anyone suggest most workable way to reinstall Toyota 4 Runner
>airbags ?
>
>The two front airbags have been deployed in a hand me down 2004 4
>Runner. I cannot find an on-line price for replacement air bags.
>
>Is this a dealer only item ?
>
>Even so, any suggestions as to pricing and best way to go about it.[/color]

They are not a 'dealer-only' item, but the installer that buys them
needs special training and licensing to do it - he's buying some
serious explosives. Most dealers don't do enough airbag replacement
work to have someone trained and on-staff full time, so they farm it
out to a regional specialist.

The Sodium Azide based initiators are triggered off with blasting
caps and are considered an explosive, and you can easily kill yourself
while installing the new airbags if you don't follow all the safety
procedures to the letter.

This is one of the few procedures that you MUST leave to an expert -
unless you want to invest a whole lot of time money and effort to get
trained, get the tools, and become an expert.
[color=blue]
>It seems that in California one cannot register with the DMV a 4
>Runner without airbags installed. 'Not perfectly sure about this, but
>looking.[/color]

They don't want someone disabling the bags or replacing them with
chunks of foam and reselling the car as having a "good" airbag system
to an unsuspecting buyer - hence the law.

A lot of crooks fixed up and sold wrecked cars and jiggered the
airbags like that, and the driver got killed or hurt badly in the next
accident when the airbags didn't deploy - because they weren't there.
They wanted a way to hang the murder rap on the crook who sold the car
like that, so a law was born.

If you want to fix it and drive it, there would be no problem - but
if you don't take it to the wrecking yard, eventually you are going to
sell the car.

Most of the time, when the bags are deployed you also have to change
out all the triggering control boxes behind the grille and a bunch of
other stuff beside just the bags themselves - which is why many cars
over three or four years old get totaled out when the bags deploy. It
is too expensive to fix the bodywork damage AND replace all the
airbags and sensors, AND repair the interior and broken windshield
that were damaged by the airbags when they deployed.

Unless you want to spend a lot of money and effort fixing up the
car, it probably makes more sense to hand it down again - this time to
a junkyard.

--<< Bruce >>--

"Bruce L. Bergman" <blPYTHONbergman@earthlink.invalid> wrote in message
news:0s98d2lcsma7svhj1f37numa3bbflek4g3@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 01:59:51 GMT, Jennifer <notspam-sec4251@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>Anyone suggest most workable way to reinstall Toyota 4 Runner
>>airbags ?
>>
>>The two front airbags have been deployed in a hand me down 2004 4
>>Runner. I cannot find an on-line price for replacement air bags.
>>
>>Is this a dealer only item ?
>>
>>Even so, any suggestions as to pricing and best way to go about it.[/color]
>
> They are not a 'dealer-only' item, but the installer that buys them
> needs special training and licensing to do it - he's buying some
> serious explosives. Most dealers don't do enough airbag replacement
> work to have someone trained and on-staff full time, so they farm it
> out to a regional specialist.
>
> The Sodium Azide based initiators are triggered off with blasting
> caps and are considered an explosive, and you can easily kill yourself
> while installing the new airbags if you don't follow all the safety
> procedures to the letter.
>
> This is one of the few procedures that you MUST leave to an expert -
> unless you want to invest a whole lot of time money and effort to get
> trained, get the tools, and become an expert.
>[color=green]
>>It seems that in California one cannot register with the DMV a 4
>>Runner without airbags installed. 'Not perfectly sure about this, but
>>looking.[/color]
>
> They don't want someone disabling the bags or replacing them with
> chunks of foam and reselling the car as having a "good" airbag system
> to an unsuspecting buyer - hence the law.
>
> A lot of crooks fixed up and sold wrecked cars and jiggered the
> airbags like that, and the driver got killed or hurt badly in the next
> accident when the airbags didn't deploy - because they weren't there.
> They wanted a way to hang the murder rap on the crook who sold the car
> like that, so a law was born.
>
> If you want to fix it and drive it, there would be no problem - but
> if you don't take it to the wrecking yard, eventually you are going to
> sell the car.
>
> Most of the time, when the bags are deployed you also have to change
> out all the triggering control boxes behind the grille and a bunch of
> other stuff beside just the bags themselves - which is why many cars
> over three or four years old get totaled out when the bags deploy. It
> is too expensive to fix the bodywork damage AND replace all the
> airbags and sensors, AND repair the interior and broken windshield
> that were damaged by the airbags when they deployed.
>
> Unless you want to spend a lot of money and effort fixing up the
> car, it probably makes more sense to hand it down again - this time to
> a junkyard.
>
> --<< Bruce >>--[/color]

AFAIK, one does not need a license to install air bags, however one does
need special training to keep it from deploying during installation. The
sensors should be OK for re-use - once the new air bags are installed, the
air bag ECU will self-test. A crash force big enough to deploy air bags
means that any seat belts that were in use at the time of the crash should
also be replaced.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

On Sat, 5 Aug 2006 01:04:17 -0500, "Ray O"
<rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>"Bruce L. Bergman" <blPYTHONbergman@earthlink.invalid> wrote in message
>news:0s98d2lcsma7svhj1f37numa3bbflek4g3@4ax.com...[color=green]
>> On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 01:59:51 GMT, Jennifer <notspam-sec4251@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>>Anyone suggest most workable way to reinstall Toyota 4 Runner
>>>airbags ?
>>>
>>>The two front airbags have been deployed in a hand me down 2004 4
>>>Runner. I cannot find an on-line price for replacement air bags.
>>>
>>>Is this a dealer only item ?
>>>
>>>Even so, any suggestions as to pricing and best way to go about it.[/color]
>>
>> They are not a 'dealer-only' item, but the installer that buys them
>> needs special training and licensing to do it - he's buying some
>> serious explosives. Most dealers don't do enough airbag replacement
>> work to have someone trained and on-staff full time, so they farm it
>> out to a regional specialist.
>>
>> The Sodium Azide based initiators are triggered off with blasting
>> caps and are considered an explosive, and you can easily kill yourself
>> while installing the new airbags if you don't follow all the safety
>> procedures to the letter.
>>
>> This is one of the few procedures that you MUST leave to an expert -
>> unless you want to invest a whole lot of time money and effort to get
>> trained, get the tools, and become an expert.
>>[color=darkred]
>>>It seems that in California one cannot register with the DMV a 4
>>>Runner without airbags installed. 'Not perfectly sure about this, but
>>>looking.[/color]
>>
>> They don't want someone disabling the bags or replacing them with
>> chunks of foam and reselling the car as having a "good" airbag system
>> to an unsuspecting buyer - hence the law.
>>
>> A lot of crooks fixed up and sold wrecked cars and jiggered the
>> airbags like that, and the driver got killed or hurt badly in the next
>> accident when the airbags didn't deploy - because they weren't there.
>> They wanted a way to hang the murder rap on the crook who sold the car
>> like that, so a law was born.
>>
>> If you want to fix it and drive it, there would be no problem - but
>> if you don't take it to the wrecking yard, eventually you are going to
>> sell the car.
>>
>> Most of the time, when the bags are deployed you also have to change
>> out all the triggering control boxes behind the grille and a bunch of
>> other stuff beside just the bags themselves - which is why many cars
>> over three or four years old get totaled out when the bags deploy. It
>> is too expensive to fix the bodywork damage AND replace all the
>> airbags and sensors, AND repair the interior and broken windshield
>> that were damaged by the airbags when they deployed.
>>
>> Unless you want to spend a lot of money and effort fixing up the
>> car, it probably makes more sense to hand it down again - this time to
>> a junkyard.
>>
>> --<< Bruce >>--[/color]
>
>AFAIK, one does not need a license to install air bags, however one does
>need special training to keep it from deploying during installation. The
>sensors should be OK for re-use - once the new air bags are installed, the
>air bag ECU will self-test. A crash force big enough to deploy air bags
>means that any seat belts that were in use at the time of the crash should
>also be replaced.[/color]

Bruce and Ray O, thanks your time that info is helpful.

I might have given the wrong impression, it is not a true hand me
down, but would have to be purchased and newly registered by me. I
really do not want the air bags at all, I have been driving cars for
for all these years without air bags and would prefer to see what was
happening in front of me at all times.

I would quite prefer to sign a waiver regarding air bags and present
it to the DMV and carry on without them. But I would bow to greater
intelligence on that point, as I am not expert in this area.

In any event, I would not be averse to paying a specialist, if it
would come to that, to put the airbags back in (and new seat belts),
if the cost were workable to the situation.

Is there any kind of a rough guestimate of the cost of replacing two
airbags and the dashboard (and the seat belts) that could be
speculated on ?

Thanks so much,

Jenny

PS
Would a fender impact that was sufficient to deploy the air bags on a
4 runner be enough to cause frame damage ? On this car there was body
work, but supposedly the frame is ok.

In article <6ju7d2hmbmcj6v9082onrl6c4qohscqauq@4ax.com>,
Jennifer <notspam-sec4251@yahoo.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
> Anyone suggest most workable way to reinstall Toyota 4 Runner
> airbags ?
>
> The two front airbags have been deployed in a hand me down 2004 4
> Runner. I cannot find an on-line price for replacement air bags.
>
> Is this a dealer only item ?
>
> Even so, any suggestions as to pricing and best way to go about it.
>
> It seems that in California one cannot register with the DMV a 4
> Runner without airbags installed. 'Not perfectly sure about this, but
> looking.
>
> Jennifer
>
> PS
>
> I actually would prefer to not have them, as I would prefer to handle
> any trouble, in progress, wihout the airbag deploying and would prefer
> to just make the dashboard ok, but I will not distaract the point of
> this post with that personal preference.[/color]

I watched an airbag deployment at a dealer parking lot, it was a
demonstration. You wouldn't want to handle one of these things, they
are like a hand grenade, very powerful.
--

On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 07:00:11 GMT, Jennifer <notspam-sec4251@yahoo.com>
wrote:
[color=blue]
>Is there any kind of a rough guestimate of the cost of replacing two
>airbags and the dashboard (and the seat belts) that could be
>speculated on ?[/color]

Do you have a telephone?

Pick two local body shops and a local Toyota dealer from the yellow
pages. Dial the published phone number for each. Ask the same
question you've posted here.

Labor rates vary by geography. The phone will get you an accurate
answer for your locale. If all three quotes are similar, there's your
answer. The dealership will most likely be higher, with the other
two being in the same ballpark. Post your answers here.

As for not needing air bags, don't forget to tell your insurance
company, as your rate is based on the vehicle having them.

"Jennifer" <notspam-sec4251@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ocg8d2d4mlngjrjhblja9cik2h1rpuektd@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> On Sat, 5 Aug 2006 01:04:17 -0500, "Ray O"
> <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>
>>"Bruce L. Bergman" <blPYTHONbergman@earthlink.invalid> wrote in message
>>news:0s98d2lcsma7svhj1f37numa3bbflek4g3@4ax.com...[color=darkred]
>>> On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 01:59:51 GMT, Jennifer <notspam-sec4251@yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Anyone suggest most workable way to reinstall Toyota 4 Runner
>>>>airbags ?
>>>>
>>>>The two front airbags have been deployed in a hand me down 2004 4
>>>>Runner. I cannot find an on-line price for replacement air bags.
>>>>
>>>>Is this a dealer only item ?
>>>>
>>>>Even so, any suggestions as to pricing and best way to go about it.
>>>
>>> They are not a 'dealer-only' item, but the installer that buys them
>>> needs special training and licensing to do it - he's buying some
>>> serious explosives. Most dealers don't do enough airbag replacement
>>> work to have someone trained and on-staff full time, so they farm it
>>> out to a regional specialist.
>>>
>>> The Sodium Azide based initiators are triggered off with blasting
>>> caps and are considered an explosive, and you can easily kill yourself
>>> while installing the new airbags if you don't follow all the safety
>>> procedures to the letter.
>>>
>>> This is one of the few procedures that you MUST leave to an expert -
>>> unless you want to invest a whole lot of time money and effort to get
>>> trained, get the tools, and become an expert.
>>>
>>>>It seems that in California one cannot register with the DMV a 4
>>>>Runner without airbags installed. 'Not perfectly sure about this, but
>>>>looking.
>>>
>>> They don't want someone disabling the bags or replacing them with
>>> chunks of foam and reselling the car as having a "good" airbag system
>>> to an unsuspecting buyer - hence the law.
>>>
>>> A lot of crooks fixed up and sold wrecked cars and jiggered the
>>> airbags like that, and the driver got killed or hurt badly in the next
>>> accident when the airbags didn't deploy - because they weren't there.
>>> They wanted a way to hang the murder rap on the crook who sold the car
>>> like that, so a law was born.
>>>
>>> If you want to fix it and drive it, there would be no problem - but
>>> if you don't take it to the wrecking yard, eventually you are going to
>>> sell the car.
>>>
>>> Most of the time, when the bags are deployed you also have to change
>>> out all the triggering control boxes behind the grille and a bunch of
>>> other stuff beside just the bags themselves - which is why many cars
>>> over three or four years old get totaled out when the bags deploy. It
>>> is too expensive to fix the bodywork damage AND replace all the
>>> airbags and sensors, AND repair the interior and broken windshield
>>> that were damaged by the airbags when they deployed.
>>>
>>> Unless you want to spend a lot of money and effort fixing up the
>>> car, it probably makes more sense to hand it down again - this time to
>>> a junkyard.
>>>
>>> --<< Bruce >>--[/color]
>>
>>AFAIK, one does not need a license to install air bags, however one does
>>need special training to keep it from deploying during installation. The
>>sensors should be OK for re-use - once the new air bags are installed, the
>>air bag ECU will self-test. A crash force big enough to deploy air bags
>>means that any seat belts that were in use at the time of the crash should
>>also be replaced.[/color]
>
> Bruce and Ray O, thanks your time that info is helpful.
>
> I might have given the wrong impression, it is not a true hand me
> down, but would have to be purchased and newly registered by me. I
> really do not want the air bags at all, I have been driving cars for
> for all these years without air bags and would prefer to see what was
> happening in front of me at all times.[/color]

As far as seeing what is happening in front of you at all times, keep in
mind that the airbags will only deploy AFTER you have hit something with
sufficient force so seeing something is kind of a moot point. Also, air bag
deployment and deflation is something like hundreths of a second, the blink
of an eye. Most people who have experienced an air bag deployment do not
even remember them going off.
[color=blue]
>
> I would quite prefer to sign a waiver regarding air bags and present
> it to the DMV and carry on without them. But I would bow to greater
> intelligence on that point, as I am not expert in this area.
>
> In any event, I would not be averse to paying a specialist, if it
> would come to that, to put the airbags back in (and new seat belts),
> if the cost were workable to the situation.
>
> Is there any kind of a rough guestimate of the cost of replacing two
> airbags and the dashboard (and the seat belts) that could be
> speculated on ?[/color]

Costs vary widely depending on the prevailing labor rates in your area, but
replacing both fron air bags will easily cost in the thousands of dollars.
Get quotes from your local Toyota dealer and reputable body shop.
[color=blue]
>
> Thanks so much,
>
> Jenny
>
> PS
> Would a fender impact that was sufficient to deploy the air bags on a
> 4 runner be enough to cause frame damage ? On this car there was body
> work, but supposedly the frame is ok.
>[/color]

After any impact that was sufficient to deploy the air bags, the frame
should be inspected and measured for damage.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

On Sat, 5 Aug 2006 14:37:17 -0500, "Ray O"
<rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>"Jennifer" <notspam-sec4251@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:ocg8d2d4mlngjrjhblja9cik2h1rpuektd@4ax.com...[color=green]
>> On Sat, 5 Aug 2006 01:04:17 -0500, "Ray O"
>> <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>>
>>>"Bruce L. Bergman" <blPYTHONbergman@earthlink.invalid> wrote in message
>>>news:0s98d2lcsma7svhj1f37numa3bbflek4g3@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 01:59:51 GMT, Jennifer <notspam-sec4251@yahoo.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Anyone suggest most workable way to reinstall Toyota 4 Runner
>>>>>airbags ?
>>>>>
>>>>>The two front airbags have been deployed in a hand me down 2004 4
>>>>>Runner. I cannot find an on-line price for replacement air bags.
>>>>>
>>>>>Is this a dealer only item ?
>>>>>
>>>>>Even so, any suggestions as to pricing and best way to go about it.
>>>>
>>>> They are not a 'dealer-only' item, but the installer that buys them
>>>> needs special training and licensing to do it - he's buying some
>>>> serious explosives. Most dealers don't do enough airbag replacement
>>>> work to have someone trained and on-staff full time, so they farm it
>>>> out to a regional specialist.
>>>>
>>>> The Sodium Azide based initiators are triggered off with blasting
>>>> caps and are considered an explosive, and you can easily kill yourself
>>>> while installing the new airbags if you don't follow all the safety
>>>> procedures to the letter.
>>>>
>>>> This is one of the few procedures that you MUST leave to an expert -
>>>> unless you want to invest a whole lot of time money and effort to get
>>>> trained, get the tools, and become an expert.
>>>>
>>>>>It seems that in California one cannot register with the DMV a 4
>>>>>Runner without airbags installed. 'Not perfectly sure about this, but
>>>>>looking.
>>>>
>>>> They don't want someone disabling the bags or replacing them with
>>>> chunks of foam and reselling the car as having a "good" airbag system
>>>> to an unsuspecting buyer - hence the law.
>>>>
>>>> A lot of crooks fixed up and sold wrecked cars and jiggered the
>>>> airbags like that, and the driver got killed or hurt badly in the next
>>>> accident when the airbags didn't deploy - because they weren't there.
>>>> They wanted a way to hang the murder rap on the crook who sold the car
>>>> like that, so a law was born.
>>>>
>>>> If you want to fix it and drive it, there would be no problem - but
>>>> if you don't take it to the wrecking yard, eventually you are going to
>>>> sell the car.
>>>>
>>>> Most of the time, when the bags are deployed you also have to change
>>>> out all the triggering control boxes behind the grille and a bunch of
>>>> other stuff beside just the bags themselves - which is why many cars
>>>> over three or four years old get totaled out when the bags deploy. It
>>>> is too expensive to fix the bodywork damage AND replace all the
>>>> airbags and sensors, AND repair the interior and broken windshield
>>>> that were damaged by the airbags when they deployed.
>>>>
>>>> Unless you want to spend a lot of money and effort fixing up the
>>>> car, it probably makes more sense to hand it down again - this time to
>>>> a junkyard.
>>>>
>>>> --<< Bruce >>--
>>>
>>>AFAIK, one does not need a license to install air bags, however one does
>>>need special training to keep it from deploying during installation. The
>>>sensors should be OK for re-use - once the new air bags are installed, the
>>>air bag ECU will self-test. A crash force big enough to deploy air bags
>>>means that any seat belts that were in use at the time of the crash should
>>>also be replaced.[/color]
>>
>> Bruce and Ray O, thanks your time that info is helpful.
>>
>> I might have given the wrong impression, it is not a true hand me
>> down, but would have to be purchased and newly registered by me. I
>> really do not want the air bags at all, I have been driving cars for
>> for all these years without air bags and would prefer to see what was
>> happening in front of me at all times.[/color]
>
>As far as seeing what is happening in front of you at all times, keep in
>mind that the airbags will only deploy AFTER you have hit something with
>sufficient force so seeing something is kind of a moot point. Also, air bag
>deployment and deflation is something like hundreths of a second, the blink
>of an eye. Most people who have experienced an air bag deployment do not
>even remember them going off.
>[color=green]
>>
>> I would quite prefer to sign a waiver regarding air bags and present
>> it to the DMV and carry on without them. But I would bow to greater
>> intelligence on that point, as I am not expert in this area.
>>
>> In any event, I would not be averse to paying a specialist, if it
>> would come to that, to put the airbags back in (and new seat belts),
>> if the cost were workable to the situation.
>>
>> Is there any kind of a rough guestimate of the cost of replacing two
>> airbags and the dashboard (and the seat belts) that could be
>> speculated on ?[/color]
>
>Costs vary widely depending on the prevailing labor rates in your area, but
>replacing both fron air bags will easily cost in the thousands of dollars.
>Get quotes from your local Toyota dealer and reputable body shop.
>[color=green]
>>
>> Thanks so much,
>>
>> Jenny
>>
>> PS
>> Would a fender impact that was sufficient to deploy the air bags on a
>> 4 runner be enough to cause frame damage ? On this car there was body
>> work, but supposedly the frame is ok.
>>[/color]
>
>After any impact that was sufficient to deploy the air bags, the frame
>should be inspected and measured for damage.[/color]

Thanks Ray, you are a gentleman. I did not know that airbags are the
domain of body shops. Otherwise I might have pushed in that direction
sooner. I am now far better educated, thanks again.
And I do own a telephone.
Jenny

"Jennifer" <notspam-sec4251@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4l5ad25mr40p8avo9f09gbta3fumd9cqgt@4ax.com...
<snipped>
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> Would a fender impact that was sufficient to deploy the air bags on a
>>> 4 runner be enough to cause frame damage ? On this car there was body
>>> work, but supposedly the frame is ok.
>>>[/color]
>>
>>After any impact that was sufficient to deploy the air bags, the frame
>>should be inspected and measured for damage.[/color]
>
> Thanks Ray, you are a gentleman. I did not know that airbags are the
> domain of body shops. Otherwise I might have pushed in that direction
> sooner. I am now far better educated, thanks again.
> And I do own a telephone.
> Jenny
>[/color]

You're welcome! Body shops are familiar with air bags because they deal
with them all the time, and dealerships are familiar with them because they
had to take training to learn how to deal with them.

Good luck with whichever route you choose!
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

"Jennifer" <notspam-sec4251@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ocg8d2d4mlngjrjhblja9cik2h1rpuektd@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> I might have given the wrong impression, it is not a true hand me
> down, but would have to be purchased and newly registered by me. I
> really do not want the air bags at all, I have been driving cars for
> for all these years without air bags and would prefer to see what was
> happening in front of me at all times.[/color]

I don't know what you expect but air bags must fully deploy in a very short
time - seven milliseconds IIRC. They deflate nearly as quickly.

Either you're in the process of having an accident - in which case seeing
what's in front of you is irrelevant - or in the very rare case that one
goes off when it should not, it's like a flashbulb. Loud and startling but
nothing remains "in front of you" to block your vision.

OT... a family member of mine helped develop airbags in the early 1970's.
Back then, they really filled up the whole front of the car - and of course
being essentially an explosion increased the cabin pressure to the point
that if they went off when windows were closed they would injure the
occupants. Some genius decided to set a second explosive charge on the same
circuit which would blow out the back window - Increased pressure at the
front of the passenger compartment, give it someplace to go, right?

So I had the opportunity to watch this slow-motion crash film... the sled
goes down the track at 30 MPH, hits the barrier, the air bags deploy and
catch the dummies... and milliseconds later the remains of the back window,
still moving at 30 MPH, shreds both airbags and dummies. Ooops - back to
the drawing board with that one, fellows! <G>
--
Mike Harris
Austin, TX