Does anyone here Service thier own A/C?

I'd like to service my own A/C on my 1986 Toyota Celica.
I'd like to try other freon substitutes, or at least,
buy some R12 on Ebay.

Is this doable? Is it practical?

thanks,
David

[Dave's]

Yes, with varying results. R134A can replace R12 but I think you'll have best results if you can evacuate the system of R12 with a vacuum pump first.

You can get R12 on Ebay YOU need to have a EPA certificate Sec 609 MVAC
Tech Cert to buy ANY automotive freon/refergerant on ebay. Their are
advertived subsitutes NONE are truley drop in. usually runs $25-$30 for 14
oz can of genuine R12 If you have any knowledege about air cond & can read,
study for an hour, take a short online test You can get certified. Did your
system quit or why does it need recharging. You need a proper set of gauges
to find outwhat it needs before you start dumping freon into the system

"david" <carroll6@kc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:Xns98297707B969weddle@24.94.170.102...[color=blue]
> I'd like to service my own A/C on my 1986 Toyota Celica.
> I'd like to try other freon substitutes, or at least,
> buy some R12 on Ebay.
>
> Is this doable? Is it practical?
>
> thanks,
> David[/color]

First, you need a certificate in order to purchase and handle R-12.

R-134-A is the current refrigerant of choice and it is not compatible with
R-12 so the existing R-12 must be evacuated from the system before charging
with 134-A. It is illegal to discharge R-12 into the air so the proper way
to evacuate it is to recover it with an R-12 recovery and evacuation system.

If the refrigerant leaked out a while ago and you are now getting around to
try to fix it, the desiccant in the receiver/drier is probably saturated and
should be changed. Also, if the refrigerant leaked out, the source of the
leak should be pinpointed or else you will spend a lot of money trying to
re-charge the system.

Prior to re-charging the system, it should be evacuated with a vacuum pump,
and you will need a set of refrigerant gauges to check its condition. The
gauges for R-12 and R-134-A are not the same.

By the time you invest in the equipment to do the job properly, you could
have paid someone to do the work, so my recommendation would be to go that
route.

People often buy small cans of refrigerant at auto parts stores (pros call
those small cans "suicide cans") and just fill the system, but without
evacuating the system, the results are mixed.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 10:28:32 -0500, Ray O wrote:
[color=blue]
>
> "david" <carroll6@kc.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns98297707B969weddle@24.94.170.102...[color=green]
>> I'd like to service my own A/C on my 1986 Toyota Celica.
>> I'd like to try other freon substitutes, or at least,
>> buy some R12 on Ebay.
>>
>> Is this doable? Is it practical?
>>
>> thanks,
>> David[/color]
>
> First, you need a certificate in order to purchase and handle R-12.
>
> R-134-A is the current refrigerant of choice and it is not compatible with
> R-12 so the existing R-12 must be evacuated from the system before charging
> with 134-A. It is illegal to discharge R-12 into the air so the proper way
> to evacuate it is to recover it with an R-12 recovery and evacuation system.
>
> If the refrigerant leaked out a while ago and you are now getting around to
> try to fix it, the desiccant in the receiver/drier is probably saturated and
> should be changed. Also, if the refrigerant leaked out, the source of the
> leak should be pinpointed or else you will spend a lot of money trying to
> re-charge the system.
>
> Prior to re-charging the system, it should be evacuated with a vacuum pump,
> and you will need a set of refrigerant gauges to check its condition. The
> gauges for R-12 and R-134-A are not the same.
>
> By the time you invest in the equipment to do the job properly, you could
> have paid someone to do the work, so my recommendation would be to go that
> route.
>
> People often buy small cans of refrigerant at auto parts stores (pros call
> those small cans "suicide cans") and just fill the system, but without
> evacuating the system, the results are mixed.[/color]


Yeah...the R-134 'mixes' with the R-12 and blows the compressor...

That's what happened to me!

"Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote in message
news:bflHg.10250$6s.1163@trndny08...[color=blue]
> On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 10:28:32 -0500, Ray O wrote:
>[color=green]
>>
>> "david" <carroll6@kc.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:Xns98297707B969weddle@24.94.170.102...[color=darkred]
>>> I'd like to service my own A/C on my 1986 Toyota Celica.
>>> I'd like to try other freon substitutes, or at least,
>>> buy some R12 on Ebay.
>>>
>>> Is this doable? Is it practical?
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> David[/color]
>>
>> First, you need a certificate in order to purchase and handle R-12.
>>
>> R-134-A is the current refrigerant of choice and it is not compatible
>> with
>> R-12 so the existing R-12 must be evacuated from the system before
>> charging
>> with 134-A. It is illegal to discharge R-12 into the air so the proper
>> way
>> to evacuate it is to recover it with an R-12 recovery and evacuation
>> system.
>>
>> If the refrigerant leaked out a while ago and you are now getting around
>> to
>> try to fix it, the desiccant in the receiver/drier is probably saturated
>> and
>> should be changed. Also, if the refrigerant leaked out, the source of
>> the
>> leak should be pinpointed or else you will spend a lot of money trying to
>> re-charge the system.
>>
>> Prior to re-charging the system, it should be evacuated with a vacuum
>> pump,
>> and you will need a set of refrigerant gauges to check its condition.
>> The
>> gauges for R-12 and R-134-A are not the same.
>>
>> By the time you invest in the equipment to do the job properly, you could
>> have paid someone to do the work, so my recommendation would be to go
>> that
>> route.
>>
>> People often buy small cans of refrigerant at auto parts stores (pros
>> call
>> those small cans "suicide cans") and just fill the system, but without
>> evacuating the system, the results are mixed.[/color]
>
>
> Yeah...the R-134 'mixes' with the R-12 and blows the compressor...
>
> That's what happened to me![/color]

I think those little cans were called suicide cans because people who did
not know the difference between the high side and low side sometimes
installed them on the high side, and if the high side pressure were too
high, then the can could burst.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

"sqdancerLynn" <sqdancerlynn1@verizon.net> wrote in message news:a5bc3e4064bae134375a0904b0028406@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...[color=blue]
> You can get R12 on Ebay YOU need to have a EPA certificate Sec 609 MVAC
> Tech Cert to buy ANY automotive freon/refergerant on ebay. Their are
> advertived subsitutes NONE are truley drop in. usually runs $25-$30 for 14
> oz can of genuine R12 If you have any knowledege about air cond & can read,
> study for an hour, take a short online test You can get certified. Did your
> system quit or why does it need recharging. You need a proper set of gauges
> to find outwhat it needs before you start dumping freon into the system
>[/color]


"If you have any knowledge about air cond & can read, study for an hour, take a short online test You can get certified."

Now that's funny. The certification requirements are all about the how and why for handling refrigerants.
The test for a universal certification was not short, or easy and did not include any trade skill type questions.

Dan

"david" <carroll6@kc.rr.com> wrote in message news:Xns98297707B969weddle@24.94.170.102...[color=blue]
> I'd like to service my own A/C on my 1986 Toyota Celica.
> I'd like to try other freon substitutes, or at least,
> buy some R12 on Ebay.
>
> Is this doable? Is it practical?
>
> thanks,
> David[/color]



doable? hmm...

If you had all the tools, materials, and time to waste
you might get lucky and make it work without causing
problems down the road.


Is it practical? NO!


GL
Dan

On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 12:57:03 -0500, Ray O wrote:
[color=blue]
>
> "Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote in message
> news:bflHg.10250$6s.1163@trndny08...[color=green]
>> On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 10:28:32 -0500, Ray O wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>>
>>> "david" <carroll6@kc.rr.com> wrote in message
>>> news:Xns98297707B969weddle@24.94.170.102...
>>>> I'd like to service my own A/C on my 1986 Toyota Celica.
>>>> I'd like to try other freon substitutes, or at least,
>>>> buy some R12 on Ebay.
>>>>
>>>> Is this doable? Is it practical?
>>>>
>>>> thanks,
>>>> David
>>>
>>> First, you need a certificate in order to purchase and handle R-12.
>>>
>>> R-134-A is the current refrigerant of choice and it is not compatible
>>> with
>>> R-12 so the existing R-12 must be evacuated from the system before
>>> charging
>>> with 134-A. It is illegal to discharge R-12 into the air so the proper
>>> way
>>> to evacuate it is to recover it with an R-12 recovery and evacuation
>>> system.
>>>
>>> If the refrigerant leaked out a while ago and you are now getting around
>>> to
>>> try to fix it, the desiccant in the receiver/drier is probably saturated
>>> and
>>> should be changed. Also, if the refrigerant leaked out, the source of
>>> the
>>> leak should be pinpointed or else you will spend a lot of money trying to
>>> re-charge the system.
>>>
>>> Prior to re-charging the system, it should be evacuated with a vacuum
>>> pump,
>>> and you will need a set of refrigerant gauges to check its condition.
>>> The
>>> gauges for R-12 and R-134-A are not the same.
>>>
>>> By the time you invest in the equipment to do the job properly, you could
>>> have paid someone to do the work, so my recommendation would be to go
>>> that
>>> route.
>>>
>>> People often buy small cans of refrigerant at auto parts stores (pros
>>> call
>>> those small cans "suicide cans") and just fill the system, but without
>>> evacuating the system, the results are mixed.[/color]
>>
>>
>> Yeah...the R-134 'mixes' with the R-12 and blows the compressor...
>>
>> That's what happened to me![/color]
>
> I think those little cans were called suicide cans because people who did
> not know the difference between the high side and low side sometimes
> installed them on the high side, and if the high side pressure were too
> high, then the can could burst.[/color]


Yeah, believe me, I read the instructions, and then took a half an hour
tracing the tubing to determine the Low side!!

On the LHS, it's easy...the caps are marked "H" & "L"...

I still shy away from those cans, though!

On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 23:55:45 GMT, Hachiroku <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote:

[color=blue]
>Yeah, believe me, I read the instructions, and then took a half an hour
>tracing the tubing to determine the Low side!!
>
>On the LHS, it's easy...the caps are marked "H" & "L"...
>
>I still shy away from those cans, though![/color]

If it's only the caps, I would NOT count on that - they could easily
have been placed back on randomly on a R-12 car, they are both 1/4
Flare ports.

This is why R134 ports are two different sizes - the low-hose will
not go on the high port, and vice versa.

The other big thing on a R12 retrofit is the compressor oil - R12
uses Mineral Oil. For R134 you need to flush 99% or so of the mineral
oil out and install a fresh charge of synthetic POE or PAG based oil.
Or the oil reacts with the refrigerant and turns to pudding, and you
know the rest...

--<< Bruce >>--

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 04:37:33 +0000, Bruce L. Bergman wrote:
[color=blue]
> On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 23:55:45 GMT, Hachiroku <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote:
>
>[color=green]
>>Yeah, believe me, I read the instructions, and then took a half an hour
>>tracing the tubing to determine the Low side!!
>>
>>On the LHS, it's easy...the caps are marked "H" & "L"...
>>
>>I still shy away from those cans, though![/color]
>
> If it's only the caps, I would NOT count on that - they could easily
> have been placed back on randomly on a R-12 car, they are both 1/4
> Flare ports.
>
> This is why R134 ports are two different sizes - the low-hose will
> not go on the high port, and vice versa.[/color]

No, it's a '94 LHS with R-134
[color=blue]
>
> The other big thing on a R12 retrofit is the compressor oil - R12
> uses Mineral Oil. For R134 you need to flush 99% or so of the mineral
> oil out and install a fresh charge of synthetic POE or PAG based oil.
> Or the oil reacts with the refrigerant and turns to pudding, and you
> know the rest...[/color]

BOOM...BOOM, ya see...I'm not done yet...BOOM!

[color=blue]
>
> --<< Bruce >>--[/color]

On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 02:16:08 -0400, Dave's
<Daves.2d16vn@no-mx.forums.yourdomain.com.au> wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>Yes, with varying results. R134A can replace R12 but I think you'll
>have best results if you can evacuate the system of R12 with a vacuum
>pump first.[/color]

I've been instructed that you need to also flush out all the
incompatable lubricant.

later,

tom @ [url]www.CarFleaMarket.com[/url]

On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 05:44:31 GMT, david <carroll6@kc.rr.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>I'd like to service my own A/C on my 1986 Toyota Celica.
>I'd like to try other freon substitutes, or at least,
>buy some R12 on Ebay.
>
>Is this doable? Is it practical?
>
>thanks,
>David[/color]


I had a 1990 escort that ate up freon. I went and got my 609 cert,
and did my own AC work. Sucked having a person look at my system, and
charge me 60+ bucks before they even fixed anything.

I use to get my r12 from pepboys. Paid about 20+ bucks per can.

later,

tom @ [url]www.BlankHelp.com[/url]