A140E Transmission Knocking & Smoking

The transmission on my 1997 Camry with 120,000 miles stopped going forward
after a short period of slipping into 1st. I could have driven around the
neighborhood in reverse though. I decided to rebuild it myself I always
wanted to learn about transmissions! I must be gluten for punishment. Found
the forward clutch assembly all burned up so I replaced all the steel plates,
clutches, and gaskets. Also had to replace some pressure plates or flanges.
Soaked everything and reassembled as per instruction did compression test
along the way and made sure things turned and didn't turn when suppose to.

What I didn't do is check the torque converter (it stayed on the engine and
looked o.k.) and the pump seemed to turn with some resistance. I get
everything reassembled start the engine up and get a terrible
knocking/clicking sound from the transmission and then smoke up from the area
of the converter. Turn the car off and said “!@#%^**#$�.

Now at this point I'm thinking the oil pump was bad and has gone to worse or
the converter is bad. Let me add... the tranny went back on the engine
smoothly there was no forcing of anything and it tightened up nicely. But
maybe the converter was not positioned correctly or something.

I know what your thinking… where is the question? Before I dive back into
taken the tranny off is there any possibility that this might be an
adjustment issue? Or is there something else I should consider?

Any helpful feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Living and Learning the hands on way…

PS. Yes- I put fluid in both the dif & trns. But I like the way you think!

"ShadeTree" <u27117@uwe> wrote in message news:66d68758a1d71@uwe...[color=blue]
> The transmission on my 1997 Camry with 120,000 miles stopped going forward
> after a short period of slipping into 1st. I could have driven around the
> neighborhood in reverse though. I decided to rebuild it myself I always
> wanted to learn about transmissions! I must be gluten for punishment.
> Found
> the forward clutch assembly all burned up so I replaced all the steel
> plates,
> clutches, and gaskets. Also had to replace some pressure plates or
> flanges.
> Soaked everything and reassembled as per instruction did compression test
> along the way and made sure things turned and didn't turn when suppose to.
>
> What I didn't do is check the torque converter (it stayed on the engine
> and
> looked o.k.) and the pump seemed to turn with some resistance. I get
> everything reassembled start the engine up and get a terrible
> knocking/clicking sound from the transmission and then smoke up from the
> area
> of the converter. Turn the car off and said "!@#%^**#$".
>
> Now at this point I'm thinking the oil pump was bad and has gone to worse
> or
> the converter is bad. Let me add... the tranny went back on the engine
> smoothly there was no forcing of anything and it tightened up nicely. But
> maybe the converter was not positioned correctly or something.[/color]

Before you took the transmission apart, you did do stall, pressure, and
solenoid checks of the transmission, right???? Refer to those pressure
readings to see if the pump is good or bad.

Yes, it is possible that the converter was not positioned properly. I don't
remember the exact sequence, but the hub and the slots in the TC sleeve to
have to be aligned a specific way.
[color=blue]
>
> I know what your thinking. where is the question? Before I dive back into
> taken the tranny off is there any possibility that this might be an
> adjustment issue? Or is there something else I should consider?[/color]

I believe that the only adjustments are for the shift linkage.
[color=blue]
>
> Any helpful feedback would be greatly appreciated.
> Living and Learning the hands on way.
>
> PS. Yes- I put fluid in both the dif & trns. But I like the way you think![/color]

Most likely, the TC did not engage the front pump properly. Hopefully,
nothing got too chewed up in there. Unfortunately, the transmission has to
come back out to find out what is going on.

Also, next time, if you are going to go through all the trouble of removing
the transmission and opening it up, I would take the extra 1/2 hour and
inspect the torque converter
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

You said the torque converter stayed on the engine. I'm thinking that when
you reinstalled the tranny, the TC did not engage the front pump. The
torque converter needs to be installed into the tranny first (to properly
engage the pump) then attached the tranny to engine and attached the bolts
to flex-plate and torque converter.

"Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message
news:40d87$45185a64$44a4a10d$15898@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=blue]
>
> "ShadeTree" <u27117@uwe> wrote in message news:66d68758a1d71@uwe...[color=green]
>> The transmission on my 1997 Camry with 120,000 miles stopped going
>> forward
>> after a short period of slipping into 1st. I could have driven around
>> the
>> neighborhood in reverse though. I decided to rebuild it myself I always
>> wanted to learn about transmissions! I must be gluten for punishment.
>> Found
>> the forward clutch assembly all burned up so I replaced all the steel
>> plates,
>> clutches, and gaskets. Also had to replace some pressure plates or
>> flanges.
>> Soaked everything and reassembled as per instruction did compression test
>> along the way and made sure things turned and didn't turn when suppose
>> to.
>>
>> What I didn't do is check the torque converter (it stayed on the engine
>> and
>> looked o.k.) and the pump seemed to turn with some resistance. I get
>> everything reassembled start the engine up and get a terrible
>> knocking/clicking sound from the transmission and then smoke up from the
>> area
>> of the converter. Turn the car off and said "!@#%^**#$".
>>
>> Now at this point I'm thinking the oil pump was bad and has gone to worse
>> or
>> the converter is bad. Let me add... the tranny went back on the engine
>> smoothly there was no forcing of anything and it tightened up nicely. But
>> maybe the converter was not positioned correctly or something.[/color]
>
> Before you took the transmission apart, you did do stall, pressure, and
> solenoid checks of the transmission, right???? Refer to those pressure
> readings to see if the pump is good or bad.
>
> Yes, it is possible that the converter was not positioned properly. I
> don't remember the exact sequence, but the hub and the slots in the TC
> sleeve to have to be aligned a specific way.
>[color=green]
>>
>> I know what your thinking. where is the question? Before I dive back into
>> taken the tranny off is there any possibility that this might be an
>> adjustment issue? Or is there something else I should consider?[/color]
>
> I believe that the only adjustments are for the shift linkage.
>[color=green]
>>
>> Any helpful feedback would be greatly appreciated.
>> Living and Learning the hands on way.
>>
>> PS. Yes- I put fluid in both the dif & trns. But I like the way you
>> think![/color]
>
> Most likely, the TC did not engage the front pump properly. Hopefully,
> nothing got too chewed up in there. Unfortunately, the transmission has
> to come back out to find out what is going on.
>
> Also, next time, if you are going to go through all the trouble of
> removing the transmission and opening it up, I would take the extra 1/2
> hour and inspect the torque converter
> --
>
> Ray O
> (correct punctuation to reply)
>
>
>
>[/color]

Thanks for the input.. I did take the transmissision off and could see where
the TC did not engage into the slots on the pump. ( I wouldn't of thought the
tranny and engine would of meshed together.) Lessoned learned the hard way.
The only damage I see and feel is roughed metal on the TC neck and some metal
particals on the pump seal.

I was planning on taken the pump out and giving it a good cleaning in mineral
spirts and giving the TC a good cleaning. I don't believe the pump circulated
fluid because it wasn't engaged into the TC. Some else I spoke with said this
being my first tranny to deal with I'd be lucky to get 5000 miles out it..
I'm hoping for better.


Dennis Leong wrote:[color=blue]
>You said the torque converter stayed on the engine. I'm thinking that when
>you reinstalled the tranny, the TC did not engage the front pump. The
>torque converter needs to be installed into the tranny first (to properly
>engage the pump) then attached the tranny to engine and attached the bolts
>to flex-plate and torque converter.
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> The transmission on my 1997 Camry with 120,000 miles stopped going
>>> forward[/color][/color]
>[quoted text clipped - 52 lines][color=green]
>> removing the transmission and opening it up, I would take the extra 1/2
>> hour and inspect the torque converter[/color][/color]

--
Message posted via CarKB.com
[url]http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/toyota/200609/1[/url]

"ShadeTree via CarKB.com" <u27117@uwe> wrote in message
news:66eaeed8aaf42@uwe...[color=blue]
> Thanks for the input.. I did take the transmissision off and could see
> where
> the TC did not engage into the slots on the pump. ( I wouldn't of thought
> the
> tranny and engine would of meshed together.) Lessoned learned the hard
> way.
> The only damage I see and feel is roughed metal on the TC neck and some
> metal
> particals on the pump seal.
>
> I was planning on taken the pump out and giving it a good cleaning in
> mineral
> spirts and giving the TC a good cleaning. I don't believe the pump
> circulated
> fluid because it wasn't engaged into the TC. Some else I spoke with said
> this
> being my first tranny to deal with I'd be lucky to get 5000 miles out it..
> I'm hoping for better.
>[/color]

If you got metal particles on the pump seal and gouged the TC neck, I would
definitely change out the fluid in the transmission oil pan after you have
driven the vehicle for about 100 miles.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)[color=blue]
>
> Dennis Leong wrote:[color=green]
>>You said the torque converter stayed on the engine. I'm thinking that
>>when
>>you reinstalled the tranny, the TC did not engage the front pump. The
>>torque converter needs to be installed into the tranny first (to properly
>>engage the pump) then attached the tranny to engine and attached the bolts
>>to flex-plate and torque converter.
>>[color=darkred]
>>>> The transmission on my 1997 Camry with 120,000 miles stopped going
>>>> forward[/color]
>>[quoted text clipped - 52 lines][color=darkred]
>>> removing the transmission and opening it up, I would take the extra 1/2
>>> hour and inspect the torque converter[/color][/color]
>
> --
> Message posted via CarKB.com
> [url]http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/toyota/200609/1[/url]
>[/color]

If the TC neck is gouged or has nicks it may destroy the seal and your
tranny will leak like crazy. You may need a new TC. Beware.

"Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message
news:9a395$451aa5dd$44a4a10d$3905@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=blue]
>
> "ShadeTree via CarKB.com" <u27117@uwe> wrote in message
> news:66eaeed8aaf42@uwe...[color=green]
>> Thanks for the input.. I did take the transmissision off and could see
>> where
>> the TC did not engage into the slots on the pump. ( I wouldn't of thought
>> the
>> tranny and engine would of meshed together.) Lessoned learned the hard
>> way.
>> The only damage I see and feel is roughed metal on the TC neck and some
>> metal
>> particals on the pump seal.
>>
>> I was planning on taken the pump out and giving it a good cleaning in
>> mineral
>> spirts and giving the TC a good cleaning. I don't believe the pump
>> circulated
>> fluid because it wasn't engaged into the TC. Some else I spoke with said
>> this
>> being my first tranny to deal with I'd be lucky to get 5000 miles out
>> it..
>> I'm hoping for better.
>>[/color]
>
> If you got metal particles on the pump seal and gouged the TC neck, I
> would definitely change out the fluid in the transmission oil pan after
> you have driven the vehicle for about 100 miles.
> --
>
> Ray O
> (correct punctuation to reply)[color=green]
>>
>> Dennis Leong wrote:[color=darkred]
>>>You said the torque converter stayed on the engine. I'm thinking that
>>>when
>>>you reinstalled the tranny, the TC did not engage the front pump. The
>>>torque converter needs to be installed into the tranny first (to properly
>>>engage the pump) then attached the tranny to engine and attached the
>>>bolts
>>>to flex-plate and torque converter.
>>>
>>>>> The transmission on my 1997 Camry with 120,000 miles stopped going
>>>>> forward
>>>[quoted text clipped - 52 lines]
>>>> removing the transmission and opening it up, I would take the extra 1/2
>>>> hour and inspect the torque converter[/color]
>>
>> --
>> Message posted via CarKB.com
>> [url]http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/toyota/200609/1[/url]
>>[/color]
>
>[/color]