'86 Celica GT - advice?

I've been offered a 5-speed liftback '86 Celica GT with ~130K miles,
basically free of charge (but it will cost me about $900 per year to
insure where I live). It has been garaged for a year since the previous
owner passed away.

It's known to have a slight clutch leak, presumably in the slave
cylinder, requiring top-off once every couple of months. Apart from
that it was known to be running perfectly when garaged, however the
current owner tells me he started it recently and it stalls after
moving a short distance when he puts it in gear. I'm hoping that
changing the battery and fluids (including siphoning out old gasoline),
replacing the fuel and air filters, and generally TLC'ing the vehicle
might cure that.

I'm considering taking this car to teach my wife how to drive stick,
and then to use as a beater on my 25-mile commute.

Are there any known, common problems with this breed of vehicle? The
reviews I can find about the North American version mostly talk about
how good it is for street racing :/

What's the difficulty level of replacing/rebuilding the clutch slave
cylinder on this car - how much equipment do I need?

On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 16:41:56 -0700, larwe wrote:
[color=blue]
> I've been offered a 5-speed liftback '86 Celica GT with ~130K miles,
> basically free of charge (but it will cost me about $900 per year to
> insure where I live). It has been garaged for a year since the previous
> owner passed away.
>
> It's known to have a slight clutch leak, presumably in the slave
> cylinder, requiring top-off once every couple of months. Apart from
> that it was known to be running perfectly when garaged, however the
> current owner tells me he started it recently and it stalls after
> moving a short distance when he puts it in gear. I'm hoping that
> changing the battery and fluids (including siphoning out old gasoline),
> replacing the fuel and air filters, and generally TLC'ing the vehicle
> might cure that.
>
> I'm considering taking this car to teach my wife how to drive stick,
> and then to use as a beater on my 25-mile commute.
>
> Are there any known, common problems with this breed of vehicle? The
> reviews I can find about the North American version mostly talk about
> how good it is for street racing :/
>
> What's the difficulty level of replacing/rebuilding the clutch slave
> cylinder on this car - how much equipment do I need?[/color]


The clutch slave is pretty easy to replace. On my '85, it was two bolts
and one fitting.

It's prabaly easier on yours (perspectively, anyway) since it's a
front-drive model. Should be right at the front of the transmission,
easily visible when you open the hood.

Bleeding is the hardest part, but since there's two of you, this won't be
bad, either.

As far as the stalling, it might just be bad gas or a gummed-up filter...

"larwe" <zwsdotcom@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159314116.351633.74120@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> I've been offered a 5-speed liftback '86 Celica GT with ~130K miles,
> basically free of charge (but it will cost me about $900 per year to
> insure where I live). It has been garaged for a year since the previous
> owner passed away.
>
> It's known to have a slight clutch leak, presumably in the slave
> cylinder, requiring top-off once every couple of months. Apart from
> that it was known to be running perfectly when garaged, however the
> current owner tells me he started it recently and it stalls after
> moving a short distance when he puts it in gear. I'm hoping that
> changing the battery and fluids (including siphoning out old gasoline),
> replacing the fuel and air filters, and generally TLC'ing the vehicle
> might cure that.
>
> I'm considering taking this car to teach my wife how to drive stick,
> and then to use as a beater on my 25-mile commute.
>
> Are there any known, common problems with this breed of vehicle? The
> reviews I can find about the North American version mostly talk about
> how good it is for street racing :/
>
> What's the difficulty level of replacing/rebuilding the clutch slave
> cylinder on this car - how much equipment do I need?[/color]

The 1986 Celica was the first of the front wheel drive Celicas. For a front
wheel drive car, it was fun to drive although it did not do well in the
snow.

Possible sources of clutch fluid leaks are the slave or the clutch master
cylinder. The slave is easier to change.

for the stalling, it is possible that the fuel has turned to varnish and
gummed the injectors. Check the air filter for critter nests.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

"larwe" <zwsdotcom@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159314116.351633.74120@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> I've been offered a 5-speed liftback '86 Celica GT with ~130K miles,
> basically free of charge (but it will cost me about $900 per year to
> insure where I live). It has been garaged for a year since the previous
> owner passed away.
>
> It's known to have a slight clutch leak, presumably in the slave
> cylinder, requiring top-off once every couple of months. Apart from
> that it was known to be running perfectly when garaged, however the
> current owner tells me he started it recently and it stalls after
> moving a short distance when he puts it in gear. I'm hoping that
> changing the battery and fluids (including siphoning out old gasoline),
> replacing the fuel and air filters, and generally TLC'ing the vehicle
> might cure that.
>
> I'm considering taking this car to teach my wife how to drive stick,
> and then to use as a beater on my 25-mile commute.
>
> Are there any known, common problems with this breed of vehicle? The
> reviews I can find about the North American version mostly talk about
> how good it is for street racing :/
>
> What's the difficulty level of replacing/rebuilding the clutch slave
> cylinder on this car - how much equipment do I need?
>[/color]

I would check for any air leaks as if the car has an airflow meter an air
leak will make stall. I would also check the computer for any fault codes.
to do that you short the e1 and t terminals of the diagnostic connector
which is located on the transmission side strut tower, then turn the
ignition on but dont start the car. if the engine light flashes any pattern
other then a constent on-off there is a sensor problem which could be
causeing the stall. As well as changeing the the battery and fluids I would
get the altanator checked as they usually go around every 3 to 4 years from
heat stress.

The clutch slave is easy to replace, 2x12mm bolts hold it on and 1 fluid
line. but bleeding will be hard unless you have a helper. I would also get
the flex lines looked at as they could be leaking too.

The only other things I would check on the car are the timing belt and when
it was last replaced because if it snaps you can kiss the motor goodbye as
the valves and pistons WILL meet, which will also damage the head. Also
dont ever let it "ping", if you do the car will damage the head and you will
need to replace it.

If you can put up with these things and the wet weather traction problem
these cars have it will be great as a daily driver, plus you will also be
able to outrun 70% of the cars on the road.

"Nicholas Bourne" <nbourne@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:451b7c1b$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...[color=blue]
> I would check for any air leaks as if the car has an airflow meter an air
> leak will make stall. I would also check the computer for any fault codes.
> to do that you short the e1 and t terminals of the diagnostic connector
> which is located on the transmission side strut tower, then turn the
> ignition on but dont start the car. if the engine light flashes any
> pattern other then a constent on-off there is a sensor problem which could
> be causeing the stall. As well as changeing the the battery and fluids I
> would get the altanator checked as they usually go around every 3 to 4
> years from heat stress.
>
> The clutch slave is easy to replace, 2x12mm bolts hold it on and 1 fluid
> line. but bleeding will be hard unless you have a helper. I would also get
> the flex lines looked at as they could be leaking too.
>
> The only other things I would check on the car are the timing belt and
> when it was last replaced because if it snaps you can kiss the motor
> goodbye as the valves and pistons WILL meet, which will also damage the
> head. Also dont ever let it "ping", if you do the car will damage the
> head and you will need to replace it.[/color]

I thought the '86 Celica had a 2.0 non-interference SOHC engine? Meaning if
the timing belt went, it would just come to a stop and it will be a PITA but
just change the belt. The 2SE engine if I remember correctly?
[color=blue]
> If you can put up with these things and the wet weather traction problem
> these cars have it will be great as a daily driver, plus you will also be
> able to outrun 70% of the cars on the road.
>[/color]

"larwe" <zwsdotcom@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159314116.351633.74120@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> I've been offered a 5-speed liftback '86 Celica GT with ~130K miles,
> basically free of charge (but it will cost me about $900 per year to
> insure where I live). It has been garaged for a year since the previous
> owner passed away.
>
> It's known to have a slight clutch leak, presumably in the slave
> cylinder, requiring top-off once every couple of months. Apart from
> that it was known to be running perfectly when garaged, however the
> current owner tells me he started it recently and it stalls after
> moving a short distance when he puts it in gear. I'm hoping that
> changing the battery and fluids (including siphoning out old gasoline),
> replacing the fuel and air filters, and generally TLC'ing the vehicle
> might cure that.
>
> I'm considering taking this car to teach my wife how to drive stick,
> and then to use as a beater on my 25-mile commute.
>
> Are there any known, common problems with this breed of vehicle? The
> reviews I can find about the North American version mostly talk about
> how good it is for street racing :/
>
> What's the difficulty level of replacing/rebuilding the clutch slave
> cylinder on this car - how much equipment do I need?
>[/color]

How short a distance?

If it stalls as soon as the clutch is released check the park brake - after
sitting for a year it may be stuck on.

"Dave L" <davelieuREMOVEME@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:pbmdnd1FvLTvEIHYnZ2dnUVZ_oadnZ2d@comcast.com...[color=blue]
>
> "Nicholas Bourne" <nbourne@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
> news:451b7c1b$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...[color=green]
>> I would check for any air leaks as if the car has an airflow meter an air
>> leak will make stall. I would also check the computer for any fault
>> codes. to do that you short the e1 and t terminals of the diagnostic
>> connector which is located on the transmission side strut tower, then
>> turn the ignition on but dont start the car. if the engine light flashes
>> any pattern other then a constent on-off there is a sensor problem which
>> could be causeing the stall. As well as changeing the the battery and
>> fluids I would get the altanator checked as they usually go around every
>> 3 to 4 years from heat stress.
>>
>> The clutch slave is easy to replace, 2x12mm bolts hold it on and 1 fluid
>> line. but bleeding will be hard unless you have a helper. I would also
>> get the flex lines looked at as they could be leaking too.
>>
>> The only other things I would check on the car are the timing belt and
>> when it was last replaced because if it snaps you can kiss the motor
>> goodbye as the valves and pistons WILL meet, which will also damage the
>> head. Also dont ever let it "ping", if you do the car will damage the
>> head and you will need to replace it.[/color]
>
> I thought the '86 Celica had a 2.0 non-interference SOHC engine? Meaning
> if the timing belt went, it would just come to a stop and it will be a
> PITA but just change the belt. The 2SE engine if I remember correctly?[/color]



It depends on where you are in the world the 1986 series cars came with the
the 2S, 3S and 4A motors. the 3S-GE motors were usually found in the US,
Australia, England as well as Japan. In parts of Eurpoe they had with 4A-GE
motors. The 3S-GE out of Japan is the pick they had the highest power but
are screamers, they sit on the highway in 5th gear between 3500 and 4000 RPM
but can out run most bigger cars.

[color=blue]
>[color=green]
>> If you can put up with these things and the wet weather traction problem
>> these cars have it will be great as a daily driver, plus you will also be
>> able to outrun 70% of the cars on the road.
>>[/color]
>
>[/color]

>The 3S-GE out of Japan is the pick they had the highest power but[color=blue]
> are screamers, they sit on the highway in 5th gear between 3500 and 4000 RPM
> but can out run most bigger cars.[/color]


What speed is that then? Mine (-GTE) sits at 100mph at 4000rpm? Gearing
must be a fair bit different on the non-turbo?

I dont know much about the pre-89 celicas i admit.

"Nicholas Bourne" <nbourne@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:451cda67@dnews.tpgi.com.au...[color=blue]
>
> "Dave L" <davelieuREMOVEME@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:pbmdnd1FvLTvEIHYnZ2dnUVZ_oadnZ2d@comcast.com...[color=green]
>>
>> "Nicholas Bourne" <nbourne@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
>> news:451b7c1b$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...[color=darkred]
>>> I would check for any air leaks as if the car has an airflow meter an
>>> air leak will make stall. I would also check the computer for any fault
>>> codes. to do that you short the e1 and t terminals of the diagnostic
>>> connector which is located on the transmission side strut tower, then
>>> turn the ignition on but dont start the car. if the engine light flashes
>>> any pattern other then a constent on-off there is a sensor problem which
>>> could be causeing the stall. As well as changeing the the battery and
>>> fluids I would get the altanator checked as they usually go around every
>>> 3 to 4 years from heat stress.
>>>
>>> The clutch slave is easy to replace, 2x12mm bolts hold it on and 1 fluid
>>> line. but bleeding will be hard unless you have a helper. I would also
>>> get the flex lines looked at as they could be leaking too.
>>>
>>> The only other things I would check on the car are the timing belt and
>>> when it was last replaced because if it snaps you can kiss the motor
>>> goodbye as the valves and pistons WILL meet, which will also damage the
>>> head. Also dont ever let it "ping", if you do the car will damage the
>>> head and you will need to replace it.[/color]
>>
>> I thought the '86 Celica had a 2.0 non-interference SOHC engine? Meaning
>> if the timing belt went, it would just come to a stop and it will be a
>> PITA but just change the belt. The 2SE engine if I remember correctly?[/color]
>
>
>
> It depends on where you are in the world the 1986 series cars came with
> the the 2S, 3S and 4A motors. the 3S-GE motors were usually found in the
> US, Australia, England as well as Japan. In parts of Eurpoe they had with
> 4A-GE motors. The 3S-GE out of Japan is the pick they had the highest
> power but are screamers, they sit on the highway in 5th gear between 3500
> and 4000 RPM but can out run most bigger cars.[/color]

Ah, gotcha. I am in the Northeast US. I believe the ST and GT shared the
same engine, and it was upgraded once you went to the GT-S.

[color=blue]
>[color=green]
>>[color=darkred]
>>> If you can put up with these things and the wet weather traction problem
>>> these cars have it will be great as a daily driver, plus you will also
>>> be able to outrun 70% of the cars on the road.
>>>[/color]
>>
>>[/color]
>
>[/color]

"Coyoteboy" <coyoteboyuk@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159549789.895176.188090@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...[color=blue][color=green]
> >The 3S-GE out of Japan is the pick they had the highest power but
>> are screamers, they sit on the highway in 5th gear between 3500 and 4000
>> RPM
>> but can out run most bigger cars.[/color]
>
>
> What speed is that then? Mine (-GTE) sits at 100mph at 4000rpm? Gearing
> must be a fair bit different on the non-turbo?
>
> I dont know much about the pre-89 celicas i admit.[/color]


I assume that you have an GT4 (all-trac).
The speed is a 110kmh indicated which is around 70mph I think. The car has a
1:1 4th and a 1:0.8 5th with a 1:4.4 final drive.
The GT4 I belive has a 1:0.97 4th and a 1:0.73 5th and either a 1:4.2 or a
1:3.9 final drive.

Also the turbo motor has a peak torque value closer to 3500rpm than the
5000rpm of the non-turbo so it will be geared to take account of that.

OK!
[color=blue][color=green]
> > I've been offered a 5-speed liftback '86 Celica GT with ~130K miles,
> >
> > Are there any known, common problems with this breed of vehicle? The
> > reviews I can find about the North American version mostly talk about[/color]
>
> I would check for any air leaks as if the car has an airflow meter an air[/color]

Thanks for all the pointers, people. I'm going to go out to the car
next weekend and do the TLC basics I mentioned. I figure if worst comes
to worst, I'll give it away or sell it at school once the wife has
ground an eighth-inch or so off the clutch ;)

The owner said that he had the timing belt break twice - within 200
miles of the 40,000 mile replacement interval :) It's a 2SE engine, and
so it survives this.
[color=blue]
> The clutch slave is easy to replace, 2x12mm bolts hold it on and 1 fluid
> line. but bleeding will be hard unless you have a helper. I would also get
> the flex lines looked at as they could be leaking too.[/color]

The flex line is relatively cheap, I see it online for $30 or less. I
can get the slave cylinder and flex for about $45 shipped.

"larwe" <zwsdotcom@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159625357.025358.21330@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> OK!
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>> > I've been offered a 5-speed liftback '86 Celica GT with ~130K miles,
>> >
>> > Are there any known, common problems with this breed of vehicle? The
>> > reviews I can find about the North American version mostly talk about[/color]
>>
>> I would check for any air leaks as if the car has an airflow meter an air[/color]
>
> Thanks for all the pointers, people. I'm going to go out to the car
> next weekend and do the TLC basics I mentioned. I figure if worst comes
> to worst, I'll give it away or sell it at school once the wife has
> ground an eighth-inch or so off the clutch ;)
>
> The owner said that he had the timing belt break twice - within 200
> miles of the 40,000 mile replacement interval :) It's a 2SE engine, and
> so it survives this.[/color]

Thought it was the 2SE engine! Years ago I bought a used '06 ST 5-spd and I
THOUGHT the GT and ST had many similarities including the engine. But 40k
replacement schedule for the timing belt? Are you sure it's not closer to
60k? I don't remember what the schedule of it was but thought it was
more...

[color=blue][color=green]
>> The clutch slave is easy to replace, 2x12mm bolts hold it on and 1 fluid
>> line. but bleeding will be hard unless you have a helper. I would also
>> get
>> the flex lines looked at as they could be leaking too.[/color]
>
> The flex line is relatively cheap, I see it online for $30 or less. I
> can get the slave cylinder and flex for about $45 shipped.
>[/color]

Dave L wrote:
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> >> > I've been offered a 5-speed liftback '86 Celica GT with ~130K miles,
> >>[/color]
> > The owner said that he had the timing belt break twice - within 200
> > miles of the 40,000 mile replacement interval :) It's a 2SE engine, and
> > so it survives this.[/color]
>
> THOUGHT the GT and ST had many similarities including the engine. But 40k
> replacement schedule for the timing belt? Are you sure it's not closer to[/color]

I don't have the manual to hand. The owner says it was scheduled at
40K, and it broke once at 40K +<200 and again at 80K +<200. Actually
the car has 102K on it now, not 130. So it is due to break in the next
18,000 miles :)

"larwe" <zwsdotcom@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159657122.109872.85330@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>
> Dave L wrote:
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>> >> > I've been offered a 5-speed liftback '86 Celica GT with ~130K miles,
>> >>
>> > The owner said that he had the timing belt break twice - within 200
>> > miles of the 40,000 mile replacement interval :) It's a 2SE engine, and
>> > so it survives this.[/color]
>>
>> THOUGHT the GT and ST had many similarities including the engine. But
>> 40k
>> replacement schedule for the timing belt? Are you sure it's not closer
>> to[/color]
>
> I don't have the manual to hand. The owner says it was scheduled at
> 40K, and it broke once at 40K +<200 and again at 80K +<200. Actually
> the car has 102K on it now, not 130. So it is due to break in the next
> 18,000 miles :)[/color]

There's a PDF file on this Gates site @:
[url]http://www.gates.com/brochure.cfm?brochure=2256&location_id=3487[/url]
It shows the '86 Celica 2.0 is 60k miles.

I have never heard of needing to replace one sooner thank 60k! I wonder who
put the other ones on for the previous owner?

-Dave

Dave L wrote:
[color=blue][color=green]
> > I don't have the manual to hand. The owner says it was scheduled at
> > 40K, and it broke once at 40K +<200 and again at 80K +<200. Actually[/color]
>
> There's a PDF file on this Gates site @:
> [url]http://www.gates.com/brochure.cfm?brochure=2256&location_id=3487[/url]
> It shows the '86 Celica 2.0 is 60k miles.[/color]

Well, I've got two answers to that, either of which is plausible... The
first page of that PDF says that if the auto manufacturer makes no
recommendation, Gates advises 60K miles. Hence I'd guess most of the
cars there where it says "60K" it really means "we don't know fersure,
and our default answer is 60K".

Second, the OEM maint schedule for this car was written 20 years ago.
I'd easily believe a modern belt might have 50% more good miles in it
than a 20-year-old belt made of hand-stitched dinosaur leather and
trilobite shells :)