A pretty productive day...

Had to have the tires on Mom's '86 Camry changed a few weeks ago, and
noticed one of the rotors was getting gouged. So, I ordered pads and
rotors, but last weekend was lousy.

So, today I actually went out and bought a REAL jack, and went to it.
Even though it is 20 years old, it's been garaged all it's life, so things
weren't rusted to hell. What a pleasure working on something that I didn't
have to worry about SNAPPING something on!

The brakes went really well, so while I was at it I thought I'd do an oil
change. There was only about TWO QUARTS in the engine!!! It doesn't leak,
and it doesn't burn oil, and it doesn't get driven much.

So, I changed the oil, and while I was down there I noticed the tranny pan
right there, in the front of the car. A check of the tranny fluid showed
it was dark red/light brown, and smelled a little 'fishy', so back to the
parts store for a screen and a gasket. The whole thing cost $11, with
another $9 for Castrol MIII/D.

Never done a Trans fluid change before, but it looked pretty straight
forward, and after hearing Ray, et al say, Drop the pan replace the
screen, replace the pan, how tough can it be?

I only could find a really crummy 10mm socket, and some of the bolts were
rusty, so I took a 3/8 and loosened them, and then discovered an 11/32 or
a 7/16 (can't remember which) fit the rusty bolt heads perfectly!

My GOD, does that stuff STINK!!!! It came out a light brown; I couldn't
use the drain because I didn't have the right size thingy...(Hex head?)
So, I just loosened the pan from the rear and let it drain that way. A
good 3 QTS came out; changing the screen was a snap, and the gasket and
the pan went on fairly well (thank God, because by this time the sun was
well on it's way behind the mountains...) I carefully put it all
together (I *REALLY* didn't want to snap a bolt off at 6:30 on a
Saturday evening!) and took it for a ride and it went pretty good, but not
the crisp shifts I remembered. Put in another 1/2 QT to bring it up to
Full Hot and Voila!

Now, I gotta go put my arm in a sling...it hurts from patting myself on
the back!!! ;)

Hachiroku wrote:
[color=blue]
> So, I changed the oil, and while I was down there I noticed the tranny pan
> right there, in the front of the car. A check of the tranny fluid showed[/color]

What's the current state of opinion on this? I have read that if the
trans fluid has NEVER been changed, then it's better to leave it alone
for the rest of the car's life unless the trans needs rebuilding. Only
change regularly if you've been changing regularly since the car was
new.

"larwe" <zwsdotcom@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159669399.834228.299570@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>
> Hachiroku wrote:
>[color=green]
>> So, I changed the oil, and while I was down there I noticed the tranny
>> pan
>> right there, in the front of the car. A check of the tranny fluid showed[/color]
>
> What's the current state of opinion on this? I have read that if the
> trans fluid has NEVER been changed, then it's better to leave it alone
> for the rest of the car's life unless the trans needs rebuilding. Only
> change regularly if you've been changing regularly since the car was
> new.
>[/color]

If the automatic transmission fluid (ATF) has never been changed, then it
should be changed but not flushed. If the ATF has received regular flushes,
then flushing will not harm anything.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

"Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote in message
news:KxFTg.523$dZ2.373@trndny01...[color=blue]
> Had to have the tires on Mom's '86 Camry changed a few weeks ago, and
> noticed one of the rotors was getting gouged. So, I ordered pads and
> rotors, but last weekend was lousy.
>
> So, today I actually went out and bought a REAL jack, and went to it.
> Even though it is 20 years old, it's been garaged all it's life, so things
> weren't rusted to hell. What a pleasure working on something that I didn't
> have to worry about SNAPPING something on![/color]

Hopefully, you got some real jack stands as well!
[color=blue]
>
> The brakes went really well, so while I was at it I thought I'd do an oil
> change. There was only about TWO QUARTS in the engine!!! It doesn't leak,
> and it doesn't burn oil, and it doesn't get driven much.
>
> So, I changed the oil, and while I was down there I noticed the tranny pan
> right there, in the front of the car. A check of the tranny fluid showed
> it was dark red/light brown, and smelled a little 'fishy', so back to the
> parts store for a screen and a gasket. The whole thing cost $11, with
> another $9 for Castrol MIII/D.
>
> Never done a Trans fluid change before, but it looked pretty straight
> forward, and after hearing Ray, et al say, Drop the pan replace the
> screen, replace the pan, how tough can it be?
>
> I only could find a really crummy 10mm socket, and some of the bolts were
> rusty, so I took a 3/8 and loosened them, and then discovered an 11/32 or
> a 7/16 (can't remember which) fit the rusty bolt heads perfectly!
>
> My GOD, does that stuff STINK!!!! It came out a light brown; I couldn't
> use the drain because I didn't have the right size thingy...(Hex head?)
> So, I just loosened the pan from the rear and let it drain that way. A
> good 3 QTS came out; changing the screen was a snap, and the gasket and
> the pan went on fairly well (thank God, because by this time the sun was
> well on it's way behind the mountains...) I carefully put it all
> together (I *REALLY* didn't want to snap a bolt off at 6:30 on a
> Saturday evening!) and took it for a ride and it went pretty good, but not
> the crisp shifts I remembered. Put in another 1/2 QT to bring it up to
> Full Hot and Voila!
>[/color]

IMO, it is not really necessary to change the screen if it is not clogged or
full of metal particles.

When you re-attach the transmission pan, hopefully, you tightened the bolts
in a star pattern so that the gasket is evenly squished.
[color=blue]
> Now, I gotta go put my arm in a sling...it hurts from patting myself on
> the back!!! ;)
>[/color]

Attaboy for helping mom out! Now, you can come out to the Chicago area and
I'll let you try out my air ratchet and practice R&R'ing the starter, which
the associated R&R'ing the engine cover and intake manifold!
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 22:05:59 -0500, Ray O wrote:
[color=blue]
>
> "Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote in message
> news:KxFTg.523$dZ2.373@trndny01...[color=green]
>> Had to have the tires on Mom's '86 Camry changed a few weeks ago, and
>> noticed one of the rotors was getting gouged. So, I ordered pads and
>> rotors, but last weekend was lousy.
>>
>> So, today I actually went out and bought a REAL jack, and went to it.
>> Even though it is 20 years old, it's been garaged all it's life, so things
>> weren't rusted to hell. What a pleasure working on something that I didn't
>> have to worry about SNAPPING something on![/color]
>
> Hopefully, you got some real jack stands as well![/color]

I've ALWAYS had Jack Stands! Only a fool (like the woman that did the
brakes on her Explorer on scissors jacks and CRUSHED HER FOOT in
Springfield) would work with only a jack!

Shoot, man, I'm a coward! I often use ramps AND jackstands!
[color=blue]
>[color=green]
>>
>> The brakes went really well, so while I was at it I thought I'd do an oil
>> change. There was only about TWO QUARTS in the engine!!! It doesn't leak,
>> and it doesn't burn oil, and it doesn't get driven much.
>>
>> So, I changed the oil, and while I was down there I noticed the tranny pan
>> right there, in the front of the car. A check of the tranny fluid showed
>> it was dark red/light brown, and smelled a little 'fishy', so back to the
>> parts store for a screen and a gasket. The whole thing cost $11, with
>> another $9 for Castrol MIII/D.
>>
>> Never done a Trans fluid change before, but it looked pretty straight
>> forward, and after hearing Ray, et al say, Drop the pan replace the
>> screen, replace the pan, how tough can it be?
>>
>> I only could find a really crummy 10mm socket, and some of the bolts were
>> rusty, so I took a 3/8 and loosened them, and then discovered an 11/32 or
>> a 7/16 (can't remember which) fit the rusty bolt heads perfectly!
>>
>> My GOD, does that stuff STINK!!!! It came out a light brown; I couldn't
>> use the drain because I didn't have the right size thingy...(Hex head?)
>> So, I just loosened the pan from the rear and let it drain that way. A
>> good 3 QTS came out; changing the screen was a snap, and the gasket and
>> the pan went on fairly well (thank God, because by this time the sun was
>> well on it's way behind the mountains...) I carefully put it all
>> together (I *REALLY* didn't want to snap a bolt off at 6:30 on a
>> Saturday evening!) and took it for a ride and it went pretty good, but not
>> the crisp shifts I remembered. Put in another 1/2 QT to bring it up to
>> Full Hot and Voila!
>>[/color]
>
> IMO, it is not really necessary to change the screen if it is not clogged or
> full of metal particles.[/color]

Actually, the screen that was in there looked REALLY good, and I had
remembered what you said about cleaning the screen, but the gasket was
$9.95, and the gasket and screen were $11 as a kit!

[color=blue]
>
> When you re-attach the transmission pan, hopefully, you tightened the bolts
> in a star pattern so that the gasket is evenly squished.[/color]

Absolutely!

[color=blue]
>[color=green]
>> Now, I gotta go put my arm in a sling...it hurts from patting myself on
>> the back!!! ;)
>>[/color]
>
> Attaboy for helping mom out! Now, you can come out to the Chicago area and
> I'll let you try out my air ratchet and practice R&R'ing the starter, which
> the associated R&R'ing the engine cover and intake manifold![/color]


Um...I've been following your posts about this one! Um, HOW much do you
like this car?!?!

On 30 Sep 2006 19:23:19 -0700, "larwe" <zwsdotcom@gmail.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>Hachiroku wrote:
>[color=green]
>> So, I changed the oil, and while I was down there I noticed the tranny pan
>> right there, in the front of the car. A check of the tranny fluid showed[/color]
>
>What's the current state of opinion on this? I have read that if the
>trans fluid has NEVER been changed, then it's better to leave it alone
>for the rest of the car's life unless the trans needs rebuilding. Only
>change regularly if you've been changing regularly since the car was
>new.[/color]

No, the only restriction is to not do a Power Flush where you
exchange 100% of the fluid if the history is unknown. Especially if
the transmission has been abused in the past and has burned fluid
(smells and looks it) is acting funny or notably about to fail.

For some odd reason, experience shows that the power flushing
service hastens the end of the trans and the eventual rebuild. The
estimate of "you have six months left" goes down to 'you drive out of
the shop and get about three blocks away and it dies'.

A normal trans fluid change where you drain the pan only changes
about a third of the fluid, most is trapped inside the torque
converter. Changing one-third of the fluid volume and the filter or
screen ever 30K miles or so is inexpensive and plenty to keep the
detergents and additives in the fluid refreshed.

If the fluid shows signs of burning or abuse, just move the next
service up to 15K, and make sure the car has a proper transmission
cooler and you (or the regular driver) stop doing whatever they were
doing that was overloading and/or overheating the transmission.

(One nasty way to toast a trans fast: Holding position at an uphill
stoplight with the throttle instead of the brakes creates a lot of
slip load and generates tons of heat. You can't do that with a clutch
without almost instantly smoking it, what makes you think a torque
converter can do it with impunity?)

You will still need to do the rebuild eventually, but it more likely
than not won't be a sudden failure.

--<< Bruce >>--

On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 19:23:19 -0700, larwe wrote:
[color=blue]
>
> Hachiroku wrote:
>[color=green]
>> So, I changed the oil, and while I was down there I noticed the tranny pan
>> right there, in the front of the car. A check of the tranny fluid showed[/color]
>
> What's the current state of opinion on this? I have read that if the
> trans fluid has NEVER been changed, then it's better to leave it alone
> for the rest of the car's life unless the trans needs rebuilding. Only
> change regularly if you've been changing regularly since the car was
> new.[/color]

She doesn't know about cars, so she has things done according to the book! :)

The screen looked good, and the fluid was a very very light brown.

You're preaching to the choir here! I used to work for a Used Car Dealer,
and we did a flush 'n fill ONCE, and the guy who rented our 'service bay'
for a detailing shop did a flush 'n fill ONCE, and we NEVER did another
one again!!!

If the fluid is too black and brackish, it's about the ONLY thing that's
still providing the friction needed for the tranny to work! Flush that
away and...

But in this case, it has had regular servicing, and it works fine!

On Sun, 01 Oct 2006 03:41:29 +0000, Bruce L. Bergman wrote:
[color=blue]
> On 30 Sep 2006 19:23:19 -0700, "larwe" <zwsdotcom@gmail.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>
>>Hachiroku wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> So, I changed the oil, and while I was down there I noticed the tranny pan
>>> right there, in the front of the car. A check of the tranny fluid showed[/color]
>>
>>What's the current state of opinion on this? I have read that if the
>>trans fluid has NEVER been changed, then it's better to leave it alone
>>for the rest of the car's life unless the trans needs rebuilding. Only
>>change regularly if you've been changing regularly since the car was
>>new.[/color]
>
> No, the only restriction is to not do a Power Flush where you
> exchange 100% of the fluid if the history is unknown. Especially if
> the transmission has been abused in the past and has burned fluid
> (smells and looks it) is acting funny or notably about to fail.
>
> For some odd reason, experience shows that the power flushing
> service hastens the end of the trans and the eventual rebuild. The
> estimate of "you have six months left" goes down to 'you drive out of
> the shop and get about three blocks away and it dies'.[/color]


I hate to laugh out loud at other people, but as I mentioned, we did this
to an Escort at the Dealership I worked at, and the guy who rented our
bays for a Detail shop did with an Escort, too. We ALL learned a lesson
(especially in BOTH cases they drove out of the shop and got about three
blocks away and NO further! ;)


[color=blue]
>
> A normal trans fluid change where you drain the pan only changes
> about a third of the fluid, most is trapped inside the torque
> converter. Changing one-third of the fluid volume and the filter or
> screen ever 30K miles or so is inexpensive and plenty to keep the
> detergents and additives in the fluid refreshed.
>
> If the fluid shows signs of burning or abuse, just move the next
> service up to 15K, and make sure the car has a proper transmission
> cooler and you (or the regular driver) stop doing whatever they were
> doing that was overloading and/or overheating the transmission.
>
> (One nasty way to toast a trans fast: Holding position at an uphill
> stoplight with the throttle instead of the brakes creates a lot of
> slip load and generates tons of heat. You can't do that with a clutch
> without almost instantly smoking it, what makes you think a torque
> converter can do it with impunity?)
>
> You will still need to do the rebuild eventually, but it more likely
> than not won't be a sudden failure.
>
> --<< Bruce >>--[/color]

"Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote in message
news:ALGTg.171$vT1.43@trndny03...[color=blue]
> On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 22:05:59 -0500, Ray O wrote:
>[color=green]
>>
>> "Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote in message
>> news:KxFTg.523$dZ2.373@trndny01...[color=darkred]
>>> Had to have the tires on Mom's '86 Camry changed a few weeks ago, and
>>> noticed one of the rotors was getting gouged. So, I ordered pads and
>>> rotors, but last weekend was lousy.
>>>
>>> So, today I actually went out and bought a REAL jack, and went to it.
>>> Even though it is 20 years old, it's been garaged all it's life, so
>>> things
>>> weren't rusted to hell. What a pleasure working on something that I
>>> didn't
>>> have to worry about SNAPPING something on![/color]
>>
>> Hopefully, you got some real jack stands as well![/color]
>
> I've ALWAYS had Jack Stands! Only a fool (like the woman that did the
> brakes on her Explorer on scissors jacks and CRUSHED HER FOOT in
> Springfield) would work with only a jack![/color]

A lot attendant at a local dealership was working on his personal vehicle
after hours, and he did not listen to one of the techs who told him to wait
while he took a car for a test drive. When the tech got back, the attendant
was crushed under the vehicle that had been held up with a scissors jack.
The attendant chose not to use the lifts, floor jack, or jack stands when he
got under the car.
[color=blue]
>
> Shoot, man, I'm a coward! I often use ramps AND jackstands![/color]

Better to be a live chicken than a dead duck!
[color=blue]
>[color=green]
>>[color=darkred]
>>>
>>> The brakes went really well, so while I was at it I thought I'd do an
>>> oil
>>> change. There was only about TWO QUARTS in the engine!!! It doesn't
>>> leak,
>>> and it doesn't burn oil, and it doesn't get driven much.
>>>
>>> So, I changed the oil, and while I was down there I noticed the tranny
>>> pan
>>> right there, in the front of the car. A check of the tranny fluid showed
>>> it was dark red/light brown, and smelled a little 'fishy', so back to
>>> the
>>> parts store for a screen and a gasket. The whole thing cost $11, with
>>> another $9 for Castrol MIII/D.
>>>
>>> Never done a Trans fluid change before, but it looked pretty straight
>>> forward, and after hearing Ray, et al say, Drop the pan replace the
>>> screen, replace the pan, how tough can it be?
>>>
>>> I only could find a really crummy 10mm socket, and some of the bolts
>>> were
>>> rusty, so I took a 3/8 and loosened them, and then discovered an 11/32
>>> or
>>> a 7/16 (can't remember which) fit the rusty bolt heads perfectly!
>>>
>>> My GOD, does that stuff STINK!!!! It came out a light brown; I couldn't
>>> use the drain because I didn't have the right size thingy...(Hex head?)
>>> So, I just loosened the pan from the rear and let it drain that way. A
>>> good 3 QTS came out; changing the screen was a snap, and the gasket and
>>> the pan went on fairly well (thank God, because by this time the sun was
>>> well on it's way behind the mountains...) I carefully put it all
>>> together (I *REALLY* didn't want to snap a bolt off at 6:30 on a
>>> Saturday evening!) and took it for a ride and it went pretty good, but
>>> not
>>> the crisp shifts I remembered. Put in another 1/2 QT to bring it up to
>>> Full Hot and Voila!
>>>[/color]
>>
>> IMO, it is not really necessary to change the screen if it is not clogged
>> or
>> full of metal particles.[/color]
>
> Actually, the screen that was in there looked REALLY good, and I had
> remembered what you said about cleaning the screen, but the gasket was
> $9.95, and the gasket and screen were $11 as a kit![/color]

I guess for that price, it's worth replacing the screen.
[color=blue]
>
>[color=green]
>>
>> When you re-attach the transmission pan, hopefully, you tightened the
>> bolts
>> in a star pattern so that the gasket is evenly squished.[/color]
>
> Absolutely!
>
>[color=green]
>>[color=darkred]
>>> Now, I gotta go put my arm in a sling...it hurts from patting myself on
>>> the back!!! ;)
>>>[/color]
>>
>> Attaboy for helping mom out! Now, you can come out to the Chicago area
>> and
>> I'll let you try out my air ratchet and practice R&R'ing the starter,
>> which
>> the associated R&R'ing the engine cover and intake manifold![/color]
>
>
> Um...I've been following your posts about this one! Um, HOW much do you
> like this car?!?![/color]

I've had this car for a couple of years, I really miss getting a new car
every quarter! That said, it is worth a little more money if it starts!
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

Hachiroku wrote:[color=blue]
> Had to have the tires on Mom's '86 Camry changed...[/color]


Your mother is lucky to have such a caring son :-)

On Sun, 01 Oct 2006 03:57:57 -0700, Built_Well wrote:
[color=blue]
> Hachiroku wrote:[color=green]
>> Had to have the tires on Mom's '86 Camry changed...[/color]
>
>
> Your mother is lucky to have such a caring son :-)[/color]


(It was a relly nice day, and none of my cars were in need of such easy
repairs... ;)