Lexus GS 450h: forebare of the next Avalon?

The 9 October issue of Business Week (US) has a full page devoted to
the new Lexus GS 450h hybrid. It includes a good photo.

Now that the Avalon is sharing a Lexus platform, I wonder if this hints
at the future Avalon.

--
Lady Purse-Wader
YahooUK disallows hyphens

"Masked" <Masked@mm.m> wrote in message
news:011020062035351464%Masked@mm.m...[color=blue]
> The 9 October issue of Business Week (US) has a full page devoted to
> the new Lexus GS 450h hybrid. It includes a good photo.
>
> Now that the Avalon is sharing a Lexus platform, I wonder if this hints
> at the future Avalon.
>
> --
> Lady Purse-Wader
> YahooUK disallows hyphens[/color]

If you are wondering whether the Avalon will be offered with a hybrid
drivetrain, I recall reading somewhere that Toyota plans to eventually offer
every series with a hybrid drivetrain.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

In article <65489$45206ce1$180ffe52$878@msgid.meganewsservers.com>, Ray
O wrote:
[color=blue]
> "Masked" <Masked@mm.m> wrote in message
> news:011020062035351464%Masked@mm.m...[color=green]
> > The 9 October issue of Business Week (US) has a full page devoted to
> > the new Lexus GS 450h hybrid. It includes a good photo.
> >
> > Now that the Avalon is sharing a Lexus platform, I wonder if this hints
> > at the future Avalon.
> >
> > --
> > Lady Purse-Wader
> > YahooUK disallows hyphens[/color]
>
> If you are wondering whether the Avalon will be offered with a hybrid
> drivetrain, I recall reading somewhere that Toyota plans to eventually offer
> every series with a hybrid drivetrain.[/color]

Thank you, Ray. I was more wondering whether the styling would be a
predictor of future Avalons. I should have been clearer. Yes, my
dealer affirmed the all-hybird alternative offerings -- by 2008, he
said.

The GS 450h is reputed to get only 22 - 28 mpg but to be VERY peppy.
That's not my favourite use for the technology, but I expect it will
have wide appeal in the marketplace.

--
Lady Purse-Wader
YahooUK disallows hyphens

"Masked" <Masked@mm.m> wrote in message
news:011020062322443166%Masked@mm.m...[color=blue]
> In article <65489$45206ce1$180ffe52$878@msgid.meganewsservers.com>, Ray
> O wrote:
>[color=green]
>> "Masked" <Masked@mm.m> wrote in message
>> news:011020062035351464%Masked@mm.m...[color=darkred]
>> > The 9 October issue of Business Week (US) has a full page devoted to
>> > the new Lexus GS 450h hybrid. It includes a good photo.
>> >
>> > Now that the Avalon is sharing a Lexus platform, I wonder if this hints
>> > at the future Avalon.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Lady Purse-Wader
>> > YahooUK disallows hyphens[/color]
>>
>> If you are wondering whether the Avalon will be offered with a hybrid
>> drivetrain, I recall reading somewhere that Toyota plans to eventually
>> offer
>> every series with a hybrid drivetrain.[/color]
>
> Thank you, Ray. I was more wondering whether the styling would be a
> predictor of future Avalons. I should have been clearer. Yes, my
> dealer affirmed the all-hybird alternative offerings -- by 2008, he
> said.
>[/color]

I am pretty sure that the Avalon and the GS are not based on the same
platform. The Avalon has a transverse-mounted engine and transaxle and is
front wheel drive, while GS has a longitudinally mounted engine and
transmission with a separate differential and is rear wheel or all wheel
drive.

I am not sure if this is still the case, but the Avalon did share its
platform with the Camry and ES.

As far as styling, there are several cues that I think will continue to the
next generation of Avalon, including a more upright front fascia, C-pillar
that joins the rear deck aft of the wheel well, and roof line that slopes
downward aft of the B-pillar. My guess is that the A-pillar will be more
reclined with the base of the A-pillar creeping forward towards the front
wheel wells.
[color=blue]
> The GS 450h is reputed to get only 22 - 28 mpg but to be VERY peppy.
> That's not my favourite use for the technology, but I expect it will
> have wide appeal in the marketplace.
>
> --
> Lady Purse-Wader
> YahooUK disallows hyphens[/color]

The GS 450h, RX 400h, and LS 600h are named for the displacement that a
conventional engine would be to produce the horsepower that the hybrid
powertrain develops, implying that these vehicles are set up for
performance, not fuel economy.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

In article <ba55f$45209f82$180ffe52$6314@msgid.meganewsservers.com>,
Ray O wrote:
[color=blue]
> "Masked" <Masked@mm.m> wrote in message
> news:011020062322443166%Masked@mm.m...[color=green]
> > In article <65489$45206ce1$180ffe52$878@msgid.meganewsservers.com>, Ray
> > O wrote:
> >[color=darkred]
> >> "Masked" <Masked@mm.m> wrote in message
> >> news:011020062035351464%Masked@mm.m...
> >> > The 9 October issue of Business Week (US) has a full page devoted to
> >> > the new Lexus GS 450h hybrid. It includes a good photo.
> >> >
> >> > Now that the Avalon is sharing a Lexus platform, I wonder if this hints
> >> > at the future Avalon.
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Lady Purse-Wader
> >> > YahooUK disallows hyphens
> >>
> >> If you are wondering whether the Avalon will be offered with a hybrid
> >> drivetrain, I recall reading somewhere that Toyota plans to eventually
> >> offer
> >> every series with a hybrid drivetrain.[/color]
> >
> > Thank you, Ray. I was more wondering whether the styling would be a
> > predictor of future Avalons. I should have been clearer. Yes, my
> > dealer affirmed the all-hybird alternative offerings -- by 2008, he
> > said.
> >[/color]
>
> I am pretty sure that the Avalon and the GS are not based on the same
> platform. The Avalon has a transverse-mounted engine and transaxle and is
> front wheel drive, while GS has a longitudinally mounted engine and
> transmission with a separate differential and is rear wheel or all wheel
> drive.[/color]

That's definitive.[color=blue]
>
> I am not sure if this is still the case, but the Avalon did share its
> platform with the Camry and ES.[/color]

My dealer says the current Avalon migrated to a Lexus platform, but
again I have only his word.[color=blue]
>
> As far as styling, there are several cues that I think will continue to the
> next generation of Avalon, including a more upright front fascia, C-pillar
> that joins the rear deck aft of the wheel well, and roof line that slopes
> downward aft of the B-pillar. My guess is that the A-pillar will be more
> reclined with the base of the A-pillar creeping forward towards the front
> wheel wells.[/color]

That should be quite appealing.[color=blue]
>[color=green]
> > The GS 450h is reputed to get only 22 - 28 mpg but to be VERY peppy.
> > That's not my favourite use for the technology, but I expect it will
> > have wide appeal in the marketplace.
> >
> > --
> > Lady Purse-Wader
> > YahooUK disallows hyphens[/color]
>
> The GS 450h, RX 400h, and LS 600h are named for the displacement that a
> conventional engine would be to produce the horsepower that the hybrid
> powertrain develops, implying that these vehicles are set up for
> performance, not fuel economy.[/color]

So, for example, the GS 430 becomes the GS 450h?

Again, Ray, I'm grateful for your willingness to share information. I
have a lot to learn.

--
Lady Purse-Wader
YahooUK disallows hyphens

"Masked" <Masked@mm.m> wrote in message
news:021020060213036342%Masked@mm.m...[color=blue]
> In article <ba55f$45209f82$180ffe52$6314@msgid.meganewsservers.com>,
> Ray O wrote:
>[color=green]
>> "Masked" <Masked@mm.m> wrote in message
>> news:011020062322443166%Masked@mm.m...[color=darkred]
>> > In article <65489$45206ce1$180ffe52$878@msgid.meganewsservers.com>, Ray
>> > O wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Masked" <Masked@mm.m> wrote in message
>> >> news:011020062035351464%Masked@mm.m...
>> >> > The 9 October issue of Business Week (US) has a full page devoted to
>> >> > the new Lexus GS 450h hybrid. It includes a good photo.
>> >> >
>> >> > Now that the Avalon is sharing a Lexus platform, I wonder if this
>> >> > hints
>> >> > at the future Avalon.
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Lady Purse-Wader
>> >> > YahooUK disallows hyphens
>> >>
>> >> If you are wondering whether the Avalon will be offered with a hybrid
>> >> drivetrain, I recall reading somewhere that Toyota plans to eventually
>> >> offer
>> >> every series with a hybrid drivetrain.
>> >
>> > Thank you, Ray. I was more wondering whether the styling would be a
>> > predictor of future Avalons. I should have been clearer. Yes, my
>> > dealer affirmed the all-hybird alternative offerings -- by 2008, he
>> > said.
>> >[/color]
>>
>> I am pretty sure that the Avalon and the GS are not based on the same
>> platform. The Avalon has a transverse-mounted engine and transaxle and
>> is
>> front wheel drive, while GS has a longitudinally mounted engine and
>> transmission with a separate differential and is rear wheel or all wheel
>> drive.[/color]
>
> That's definitive.[color=green]
>>
>> I am not sure if this is still the case, but the Avalon did share its
>> platform with the Camry and ES.[/color]
>
> My dealer says the current Avalon migrated to a Lexus platform, but
> again I have only his word.[/color]

Unfortunately, dealership sales personnel are not always technically savvy,
so they mis-interpret some of what they hear.
[color=blue][color=green]
>>
>> As far as styling, there are several cues that I think will continue to
>> the
>> next generation of Avalon, including a more upright front fascia,
>> C-pillar
>> that joins the rear deck aft of the wheel well, and roof line that slopes
>> downward aft of the B-pillar. My guess is that the A-pillar will be more
>> reclined with the base of the A-pillar creeping forward towards the front
>> wheel wells.[/color]
>
> That should be quite appealing.[color=green]
>>[color=darkred]
>> > The GS 450h is reputed to get only 22 - 28 mpg but to be VERY peppy.
>> > That's not my favourite use for the technology, but I expect it will
>> > have wide appeal in the marketplace.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Lady Purse-Wader
>> > YahooUK disallows hyphens[/color]
>>
>> The GS 450h, RX 400h, and LS 600h are named for the displacement that a
>> conventional engine would be to produce the horsepower that the hybrid
>> powertrain develops, implying that these vehicles are set up for
>> performance, not fuel economy.[/color]
>
> So, for example, the GS 430 becomes the GS 450h?[/color]

You got it! A GS 450h would have the performance of a vehicle with a 4.5
liter engine, with fuel economy somewhere north of 20 mpg.
[color=blue]
>
> Again, Ray, I'm grateful for your willingness to share information. I
> have a lot to learn.
>[/color]
You're very welcome!
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

In article <65489$45206ce1$180ffe52$878@msgid.meganewsservers.com>
rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom "Ray O" writes:
[color=blue]
> If you are wondering whether the Avalon will be offered with a
> hybrid drivetrain, I recall reading somewhere that Toyota plans
> to eventually offer every series with a hybrid drivetrain.[/color]

Isn't that liable to make series' design tricky, considering how
different in shape the conventional and hybrid drive systems are
(including bits like that big battery and the non-U controls)?

Or do they plan to do away with all conventional drive systems --
whether fuelled by petrol, diesel, flexfuel/biofuel &c? Sayings
about eggs and baskets come to mind. I am a fan of hybrids; but
there surely will be times when a plain old grunt-motor fits the
need best (until hybrids have matured considerably, that is).
--
Andrew Stephenson

"Andrew Stephenson" <ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1159804402snz@deltrak.demon.co.uk...[color=blue]
> In article <65489$45206ce1$180ffe52$878@msgid.meganewsservers.com>
> rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom "Ray O" writes:
>[color=green]
>> If you are wondering whether the Avalon will be offered with a
>> hybrid drivetrain, I recall reading somewhere that Toyota plans
>> to eventually offer every series with a hybrid drivetrain.[/color]
>
> Isn't that liable to make series' design tricky, considering how
> different in shape the conventional and hybrid drive systems are
> (including bits like that big battery and the non-U controls)?
>
> Or do they plan to do away with all conventional drive systems --
> whether fuelled by petrol, diesel, flexfuel/biofuel &c? Sayings
> about eggs and baskets come to mind. I am a fan of hybrids; but
> there surely will be times when a plain old grunt-motor fits the
> need best (until hybrids have matured considerably, that is).
> --
> Andrew Stephenson[/color]

IMO, packaging a hybrid drivetrain is not that tricky, considering that
Toyota/Lexus already have several vehicles that are or will be offered in
both a conventional and hybrid drivetrain, like the Highlander, RX 400h, GS
450h, Camry, and LS 600h. The Ford Escape, which uses a Toyota design; the
Honda Civic and Accord, and the GMC truck are all offered with conventional
and hybrid drivetrains. The hybrid coupler is roughly the size and shape of
a conventional transmission, the battery packs are in the trunk (making the
cargo area shallower), and the controllers can be tucked in nooks and
crannies. Ford, Daimler Chrysler, and BMW have formed a consortium to
develop a hybrid transmission with the aim of making it adaptable to any
conventionally powered vehicle.

I do not think Toyota or any automaker will do away with all conventional
drive systems in the foreseeable future unless the break-even cost of the
hybrid drivetrain comes in under 3 years and hybrid performance is on a par
or exceeds the conventional drivetrain's performance. Given the additional
components needed in a hybrid drivetrain, I don't see the cost coming low
enough to break even under 3 years, and there are applications where a
conventional drivetrain out-performs a hybrid one.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)