{OT} New Sex Offender Laws causing more problems than cures?

Interesting Reasoned Insanity brought this up about AA in his last post.
I was thinking about this this morning in the shower (I do some of my best
thinking there....)

Here in Mass, LT. Gov Healy, in a bid to take over from her boss Mitt
Romney when he 'retires' in Jan, has added more clauses to the Sex
Offender laws in Mass.

Law and order people may think these are good. Good for her! However, as a
Psych major in College, with a friend who administers Psych counseling to
Sex Offenders in the Mass State prison that deals with 90% of them, I
don't see it.

The changes: Tougher sentancing for Sex Offenders. Lifetime
Parole/Probation. Civil Committment (This one has been on the books for a
few years now), and the increase of the Statute of Limitations from 15
years to (23 or 27) years.

While most people may see this as GOOD things, I do not. Why?
The other day in PA will serve as a clue. The nutcase there was having
regrets about molesting some young family members when he was a teen. He
was starting to have more feelings about molesting more kids. So, he goes
off the rails, kills some girls, and then kills hmself. (I always say,
they ought to kill the LAST person FIRST and save a lot of anguish...)

With the tougher laws, Civil Comittment, and Lifetime Probation, I see
this as more of a Hindrance to seeking the help they need! Studies show
that approx 1/3 of all Sex Offenders are NOT rehbilitatable; these people
SHOULD be committed for life; the unfortunate thing is, in order to find
out who can be rehabilitated and who can't can be a crap shoot (some of
these people are CRAFTY; Crazy like a Fox, as they say, and can pull the
wool over the board's eyes, get out and reoffend). This means that 2/3 are
NOT going to reoffend. Do we throw away the baby with the bathwater?

Muderers are often 'rehabilitated' after their sentances are up; the plain
truth is that a larger percentage of murderers go on to murder again after
being released! There aren't any 'Murder Registries', no Life time Parole,
etc. A muderer will get his picutre in the paper when he comitts the
crime, when he is at hearing, and when he is sentanced, like the Sex
Offender will, but Murderers are NOT 'classified' when they are released
as to whether they will reoffend or not, and those most likely to reoffend
don't have their pictures in Libraries, the Media and the newspaper.

To me, the crimes are almost the same. So, why is one class treated
different from another, even though the group that is far more likely to
offend is NOT the one exposed?

But, I digress. The whole thing is, a LOT of Sex Offenders can be
rehabilitated by therapy. And with the restraints on them by the Public,
they will probably not seek the help they need, and may go on to commit
many more such crimes before they are apprehended.

On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 18:42:40 GMT, Hachiroku <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Muderers are often 'rehabilitated' after their sentances are up; the plain
>truth is that a larger percentage of murderers go on to murder again after
>being released! There aren't any 'Murder Registries', no Life time Parole,[/color]

The stats I have seen in the past show that most murders are crimes of
passion and most murderers would not be repeat offenders.
[color=blue]
>
>To me, the crimes are almost the same. So, why is one class treated
>different from another, even though the group that is far more likely to
>offend is NOT the one exposed?[/color]

Again, all of the stats I have seen show that sexual offenders are
very likely to become repeat offenders, and that _most_ of them will
do it again, not 1/3 of them.

I also haven't seen anything to indicate you can really rehabilitate
them. It seems the most you can do is keep them under close
observation for the rest of their lives.

If you have other info, please do post links or whatever.

On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 15:14:17 -0400, Stuart Krivis wrote:
[color=blue]
> On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 18:42:40 GMT, Hachiroku <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>Muderers are often 'rehabilitated' after their sentances are up; the plain
>>truth is that a larger percentage of murderers go on to murder again after
>>being released! There aren't any 'Murder Registries', no Life time Parole,[/color]
>
> The stats I have seen in the past show that most murders are crimes of
> passion and most murderers would not be repeat offenders.
>[color=green]
>>
>>To me, the crimes are almost the same. So, why is one class treated
>>different from another, even though the group that is far more likely to
>>offend is NOT the one exposed?[/color]
>
> Again, all of the stats I have seen show that sexual offenders are
> very likely to become repeat offenders, and that _most_ of them will
> do it again, not 1/3 of them.
>
> I also haven't seen anything to indicate you can really rehabilitate
> them. It seems the most you can do is keep them under close
> observation for the rest of their lives.
>
> If you have other info, please do post links or whatever.[/color]


Hmm...all I have is empirical data provided to me by my friend. We were
both Psych majors in College, I decided I liked Electronics better and he
kept going. I probably would have been a good Shrink, but sitting around
listening to crazy people slowly go off their rockers didn't appeal to me
after a while (and, I was a Liberal then...).

All I have is our discussions to draw on; I have kept up with the
Psychology side of things somewhat, and I go by what he says. He's doing
it, and he's practicing with Sex Offenders. He's NOT a hack by any means,
and if he says it, I believe it.

Sorry I can't cite any more than that.

What I can say is he is somewhat pissed at the handling of Sex Offenders
in the Commonwealth of Mass, and that is basically because of the stats he
has on the recidivism of Sex Offenders and other criminals, esp murderers.
The deal with Murderers REALLY pisses him off!

"Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote in message
news:AgTUg.7165$vT1.1292@trndny03...[color=blue]
> Interesting Reasoned Insanity brought this up about AA in his last post.
> I was thinking about this this morning in the shower (I do some of my best
> thinking there....)[/color]

*snipping interesting stuff*

Fear not, the ACLUe-less will shoot this one down in no time.

You make some very good points, but personally, I think anyone who kills
deliberately shouldn't get out again, either. ESPECIALLY the really vicious
ones. Time and again, they get slapped on the wrist, then go kill again,
usually escalating their deviance.

Natalie

I agree, I'm all for rehabilitation, In Prison, with no parole. Otherwise,
the chair.


"Wickeddoll®" <wickeddoll1958diespammersdie@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:eg0pjk.2r8.1@news.evilcabal.org...[color=blue]
>
> "Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote in message
> news:AgTUg.7165$vT1.1292@trndny03...[color=green]
>> Interesting Reasoned Insanity brought this up about AA in his last post.
>> I was thinking about this this morning in the shower (I do some of my
>> best
>> thinking there....)[/color]
>
> *snipping interesting stuff*
>
> Fear not, the ACLUe-less will shoot this one down in no time.
>
> You make some very good points, but personally, I think anyone who kills
> deliberately shouldn't get out again, either. ESPECIALLY the really
> vicious ones. Time and again, they get slapped on the wrist, then go kill
> again, usually escalating their deviance.
>
> Natalie
>[/color]

On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 17:04:44 -0400, Wickeddoll® wrote:
[color=blue]
>
> "Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote in message
> news:AgTUg.7165$vT1.1292@trndny03...[color=green]
>> Interesting Reasoned Insanity brought this up about AA in his last post.
>> I was thinking about this this morning in the shower (I do some of my best
>> thinking there....)[/color]
>
> *snipping interesting stuff*
>
> Fear not, the ACLUe-less will shoot this one down in no time.
>
> You make some very good points, but personally, I think anyone who kills
> deliberately shouldn't get out again, either. ESPECIALLY the really vicious
> ones. Time and again, they get slapped on the wrist, then go kill again,
> usually escalating their deviance.
>
> Natalie[/color]


And more so in your Husband's Hometown!

The Chief is from, I believe, New Orleans; Chief Scott.

If I had a Dollar for every time he has said on the local news (Or on
Howiecarr.com) "We lock them up, and the judges put them back on the
street the next morning", I could have paid for my Scion CA$H!

Hachiroku wrote:
[color=blue][color=green]
> > Again, all of the stats I have seen show that sexual offenders are
> > very likely to become repeat offenders, and that _most_ of them will
> > do it again, not 1/3 of them.[/color]
>
> listening to crazy people slowly go off their rockers didn't appeal to me
> after a while (and, I was a Liberal then...).[/color]

Ah, a liberal... that's a shame.

If I embezzle a million dollars, I'd expect to have trouble getting
work at a bank. Same deal applies. Society trusts its members not to
rape each other. You commit the offense, you forfeit any trust. The
consequences are built right into the crime, and clearly advertised.
One doesn't go around shooting people at random (no matter how much
they beg for it sometimes...) because there are consequences.

Hang'em high, I say. How many law-abiding citizens are NAMBLA members,
anyway?

"Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote in message
news:tDYUg.1816$We.1526@trndny08...[color=blue]
> On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 17:04:44 -0400, Wickeddoll® wrote:
>[color=green]
>>
>> "Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote in message
>> news:AgTUg.7165$vT1.1292@trndny03...[color=darkred]
>>> Interesting Reasoned Insanity brought this up about AA in his last post.
>>> I was thinking about this this morning in the shower (I do some of my
>>> best
>>> thinking there....)[/color]
>>
>> *snipping interesting stuff*
>>
>> Fear not, the ACLUe-less will shoot this one down in no time.
>>
>> You make some very good points, but personally, I think anyone who kills
>> deliberately shouldn't get out again, either. ESPECIALLY the really
>> vicious
>> ones. Time and again, they get slapped on the wrist, then go kill again,
>> usually escalating their deviance.
>>
>> Natalie[/color]
>
>
> And more so in your Husband's Hometown!
>
> The Chief is from, I believe, New Orleans; Chief Scott.[/color]

Hey, Hubby has even less interest in living in Massachusetts than I do;
Holyoke least of all (Cape Cod, maybe)[color=blue]
>
> If I had a Dollar for every time he has said on the local news (Or on
> Howiecarr.com) "We lock them up, and the judges put them back on the
> street the next morning", I could have paid for my Scion CA$H!
>
>[/color]

No kidding - it's pretty disgusting.

Natalie

On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 17:58:10 -0700, larwe wrote:
[color=blue]
>
> Hachiroku wrote:
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>> > Again, all of the stats I have seen show that sexual offenders are
>> > very likely to become repeat offenders, and that _most_ of them will
>> > do it again, not 1/3 of them.[/color]
>>
>> listening to crazy people slowly go off their rockers didn't appeal to me
>> after a while (and, I was a Liberal then...).[/color]
>
> Ah, a liberal... that's a shame.[/color]

But I'm not now. I fully subscribed to Winston Churchill's "If you're not
a Liberal by the time you're 20, you have no heart. If you're not a
Conservative by the time you're 40, you have no brain."


However, I don't see classifying one class of criminal and not another as
equal punishment, especially, as my friend has attested to, one group is
more readily 'rehabilitated' than the other.

If it's one way for one group, it's the same way for all. I'd sure want to
know if a murderer were living next to me!


[color=blue]
>
> If I embezzle a million dollars, I'd expect to have trouble getting
> work at a bank. Same deal applies. Society trusts its members not to
> rape each other. You commit the offense, you forfeit any trust. The
> consequences are built right into the crime, and clearly advertised.
> One doesn't go around shooting people at random (no matter how much
> they beg for it sometimes...) because there are consequences.
>
> Hang'em high, I say. How many law-abiding citizens are NAMBLA members,
> anyway?[/color]

On Wed, 4 Oct 2006 17:04:44 -0400, "Wickeddoll®"
<wickeddoll1958diespammersdie@yahoo.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>"Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote in message
>news:AgTUg.7165$vT1.1292@trndny03...[color=green]
>> Interesting Reasoned Insanity brought this up about AA in his last post.
>> I was thinking about this this morning in the shower (I do some of my best
>> thinking there....)[/color]
>
>*snipping interesting stuff*
>
>Fear not, the ACLUe-less will shoot this one down in no time.
>
>You make some very good points, but personally, I think anyone who kills
>deliberately shouldn't get out again, either. ESPECIALLY the really vicious
>ones. Time and again, they get slapped on the wrist, then go kill again,
>usually escalating their deviance.[/color]

Yes, I'd agree that this kind of murderer should receive a very stiff
sentence.

I heard recently that someone from MCI got what was basically a life
sentence. He got 25 years and he is 65 already.

Yes, MCI, Enron, Adelphia, etc. caused a lot of grief for a lot of
people. But was this a proportionate sentence when we see murderers
get 15 years or less in some cases?

"Stuart Krivis" <jd@mongo.krivis.com> wrote in message
news:bp9ai2lmr5ijmkhav34u8jdt4hlcm1br95@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> On Wed, 4 Oct 2006 17:04:44 -0400, "Wickeddoll®"
> <wickeddoll1958diespammersdie@yahoo.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>
>>"Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote in message
>>news:AgTUg.7165$vT1.1292@trndny03...[color=darkred]
>>> Interesting Reasoned Insanity brought this up about AA in his last post.
>>> I was thinking about this this morning in the shower (I do some of my
>>> best
>>> thinking there....)[/color]
>>
>>*snipping interesting stuff*
>>
>>Fear not, the ACLUe-less will shoot this one down in no time.
>>
>>You make some very good points, but personally, I think anyone who kills
>>deliberately shouldn't get out again, either. ESPECIALLY the really
>>vicious
>>ones. Time and again, they get slapped on the wrist, then go kill again,
>>usually escalating their deviance.[/color]
>
> Yes, I'd agree that this kind of murderer should receive a very stiff
> sentence.
>
> I heard recently that someone from MCI got what was basically a life
> sentence. He got 25 years and he is 65 already.
>
> Yes, MCI, Enron, Adelphia, etc. caused a lot of grief for a lot of
> people. But was this a proportionate sentence when we see murderers
> get 15 years or less in some cases?[/color]


The prison system would be a lot less crowded if we were to execute all
those who were proven guilty of murder. This would be something I would love
to be able to support, but there also has to be as system of checks and
balances to make damn sure that we didn't go off killing innocents.

On Oct 5, 6:02 pm, "Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@@yahoo.com> wrote:[color=blue]
> balances to make damn sure that we didn't go off killing innocents.- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -[/color]

I agree in principle. Though you'll never get the checks and balances
needed because even now they are coming up with flaws in forensic
evidence, finding people lied or exaggerated and find wrongly convicted
people fairly regularly. I for one wouldnt like to be on the wrong side
of that option.

On Thu, 5 Oct 2006 12:02:26 -0500, "Reasoned Insanity"
<mintclovers@@yahoo.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>The prison system would be a lot less crowded if we were to execute all
>those who were proven guilty of murder. This would be something I would love[/color]

The prison system would probably also be less crowded if we took all
the people convicted of brutal and violent crimes and made them the
prison guards.

[color=blue]
>to be able to support, but there also has to be as system of checks and
>balances to make damn sure that we didn't go off killing innocents.
>[/color]

There's no way it will ever be perfect. So we simply can't execute
anyone. We just have to deal with putting people in jail for life, or
we have to figure out a really good way to rehabilitate them. (I'm
betting on just keeping people in prison for quite a while to come.
Maybe someday we'll have a better answer.)

I'll go further. It is obvious, at least in my area, that the same
criminals are doing most of the crimes. Whenever they charge some one with
murder he has a rap sheet miles long. Might as well just keep repeat
offenders in jail before they do the murder.


"Wickeddoll®" <wickeddoll1958diespammersdie@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:eg0pjk.2r8.1@news.evilcabal.org...[color=blue]
>
> "Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote in message
> news:AgTUg.7165$vT1.1292@trndny03...[color=green]
>> Interesting Reasoned Insanity brought this up about AA in his last post.
>> I was thinking about this this morning in the shower (I do some of my
>> best
>> thinking there....)[/color]
>
> *snipping interesting stuff*
>
> Fear not, the ACLUe-less will shoot this one down in no time.
>
> You make some very good points, but personally, I think anyone who kills
> deliberately shouldn't get out again, either. ESPECIALLY the really
> vicious ones. Time and again, they get slapped on the wrist, then go kill
> again, usually escalating their deviance.
>
> Natalie
>[/color]

"Stuart Krivis" <jd@mongo.krivis.com> wrote in message
news:bp9ai2lmr5ijmkhav34u8jdt4hlcm1br95@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> On Wed, 4 Oct 2006 17:04:44 -0400, "Wickeddoll®"
> <wickeddoll1958diespammersdie@yahoo.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>
>>"Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote in message
>>news:AgTUg.7165$vT1.1292@trndny03...[color=darkred]
>>> Interesting Reasoned Insanity brought this up about AA in his last post.
>>> I was thinking about this this morning in the shower (I do some of my
>>> best
>>> thinking there....)[/color]
>>
>>*snipping interesting stuff*
>>
>>Fear not, the ACLUe-less will shoot this one down in no time.
>>
>>You make some very good points, but personally, I think anyone who kills
>>deliberately shouldn't get out again, either. ESPECIALLY the really
>>vicious
>>ones. Time and again, they get slapped on the wrist, then go kill again,
>>usually escalating their deviance.[/color]
>
> Yes, I'd agree that this kind of murderer should receive a very stiff
> sentence.
>
> I heard recently that someone from MCI got what was basically a life
> sentence. He got 25 years and he is 65 already.
>
> Yes, MCI, Enron, Adelphia, etc. caused a lot of grief for a lot of
> people. But was this a proportionate sentence when we see murderers
> get 15 years or less in some cases?
>
>[/color]

Yeah, dangerous criminals like Martha Stewart get more time than axe
murderers...

Natalie