Toyota airconditioning

Can anyone tell me if I am being taken for a ride?

I have a 2003 Toyota previa with a bust airconditioning system. A local
firm specialising in airconditioning diagnosed a broken compressor and
replaced it. they commented that there were iron filings in the system
which they say came from the compressor when it broke down. The system
was flushed out (apparently) but did not work properly (ie did not blow
very cold). It broke down again after about 20 min use. The garage
then got a second firm in to flush the system with ?nitrogen but this
did not work. I am now told the new compressor has seized up.

questions:
Would/could a compressor failing result in iron filings/debris being
circulated thoughout the system?
Should the garage have got a specialist firm to flush the system
through with ?nitrogen before connecting up a new compressor?
Is there any other way iron filings/metal fragments are likely to get
into the system?
Is this a soluble problem or am I throwing good money after bad?

Any commments would be welcome

Charles Crawley wrote:[color=blue]
> Can anyone tell me if I am being taken for a ride?
> questions:
> Would/could a compressor failing result in iron filings/debris being
> circulated thoughout the system?
> Should the garage have got a specialist firm to flush the system
> through with ?nitrogen before connecting up a new compressor?
> Is there any other way iron filings/metal fragments are likely to get
> into the system?
> Is this a soluble problem or am I throwing good money after bad?
>
> Any commments would be welcome[/color]

Having not fixed the problem, while having taken you cash, i see it as
their problem, not yours. If they flushed the system badly thats their
doing. Theres no way filings could get in other than a compressor
failure. I'm not 100% sure how you'd "flush" and aircon system of
filings though, theres a lot of places for those filings to gather and
IMO flushing it will just pass them round for later finding. Ideally
the pipework should have been disassembled and cleaned out before
re-assembling. Either way the second failure is within the guarantee on
their work/parts so return and ask for it to be fixed FOC, in a kind
manner that will make them tempted to help you lol.

Charles Crawley wrote:[color=blue]
> questions:
> Would/could a compressor failing result in iron filings/debris being
> circulated thoughout the system?[/color]
=====================
I'm not an expert, but my understanding is that when a compressor fails
it is taken for granted that the system is contaminated and has to be
thoroughly cleaned before installing new parts as standard operating
procedure -- precisely to avoid the type of failure you experienced.
Unfortunately, this points to a lack of skill or proficiency on the
part of your installer.
Not sure how best to handle this.
If it were me I'd likely seek to obtain another compressor under
warranty -- a *new* unit if at all possible since some *rebuilt*
compressors are notoriously unreliable, and then take it to someone
with better credentials to have it installed.
I think I remember reading that you also need to install other new
parts along with the compressor - but I don't recall exactly what they
are - receiver dryer I think, to avoid contamination in the system from
the prior compressor failure.
Any competent air conditioning mechanic will know the procedure as
routine and very common -- though not necessarily inexpensive.

Charles Crawley wrote:[color=blue]
> Can anyone tell me if I am being taken for a ride?
>
> I have a 2003 Toyota previa with a bust airconditioning system. A local
> firm specialising in airconditioning diagnosed a broken compressor and
> replaced it. they commented that there were iron filings in the system
> which they say came from the compressor when it broke down. The system
> was flushed out (apparently) but did not work properly (ie did not blow
> very cold). It broke down again after about 20 min use. The garage
> then got a second firm in to flush the system with ?nitrogen but this
> did not work. I am now told the new compressor has seized up.
>
> questions:
> Would/could a compressor failing result in iron filings/debris being
> circulated thoughout the system?
> Should the garage have got a specialist firm to flush the system
> through with ?nitrogen before connecting up a new compressor?[/color]

I don't think the incompetent A/C shop has a leg to stand on, unless
they gave you a written warranty warning that their parts & labor were
guaranteed for only 15 minutes.. I'd file a complaint with the credit
card company (of course you paid by credit card -- it's too dangerous
to use cash or check), the Better Business Bureau ([url]www.bbb.org[/url] --
online form), your state attorney general's consumer protection
division, and contact local TV station consumer reporters.

[url]www.aircondition.com[/url] is a great website about auto air.
[color=blue]
>From what I've read, every compressor failure is assumed to dump debris[/color]
into the system, so the systme is supposed to be either flushed out or
filter screens installed. Also things like the expansion valve or
orfice tube have to be replaced (the dryer is always rplaced). I've
never heard of taking the car to a specialist to have its A/C blown out
with nitrogen because I thought that all A/C shops did that regularly.
Also how is nitrogen supposed to be able to flush out metal particles
that are so much denser, considering alll the nooks and crannies in the
A/C plumbing, especially the parallel-flow condenser? I'm no expert,
but I thought that some kind of liquid was supposed to be used for that
and then compressed air or nitrogen used to blow out all traces of the
liquid.

Charles Crawley wrote:
[color=blue]
> A local firm specialising in airconditioning diagnosed a
> broken compressor and replaced it. They commented that
> there were iron filings in the system which they say came
> from the compressor when it broke down. The system
> was flushed out (apparently) but did not work properly (ie
> did not blow very cold). It broke down again after about 20 min
> use.[/color]
[color=blue]
> The garage then got a second firm in to flush the system
> with ?nitrogen but this did not work. I[/color]
[color=blue]
> Should the garage have got a specialist firm to flush the system
> through with nitrogen before connecting up a new compressor?[/color]

What is the name of the first company?

No legitimate garage will dodge responsibility for a job that was
botched so badly and that failed so soon, unless they installed
parts brought to them by the customer. You're owed a new
compressor and the labor to install it. Accept nothing less, and
if possible have a legitimate garage do the work the next time.

Systems are flushed with solvents, even mineral spirits, not
nitrogen, and then blown out with compressed air. Compressors,
accumulator-driers, and regulator valves can't be flushed, and it's
said flat tube condensers have such tiny passages that they can
be hard to flush. Installation of a filter screen between the return
line and compresor suction inlet can be a good practice.

"Charles Crawley" <charles.crawley@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:1160515093.668535.5630@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> Can anyone tell me if I am being taken for a ride?
>
> I have a 2003 Toyota previa with a bust airconditioning system. A local
> firm specialising in airconditioning diagnosed a broken compressor and
> replaced it. they commented that there were iron filings in the system
> which they say came from the compressor when it broke down.[/color]


Compressors fail for many reasons and it is not uncommon for one to
do what I call a melt down and spew its guts just like that.



The system[color=blue]
> was flushed out (apparently) but did not work properly (ie did not blow
> very cold). It broke down again after about 20 min use.[/color]


That sounds like someone tried to clean out the system without taking it
apart to do the job correctly. For example debris would not allow the
metering device to work correctly.


The garage[color=blue]
> then got a second firm in to flush the system with ?nitrogen but this
> did not work. I am now told the new compressor has seized up.
>[/color]

Figures

[color=blue]
> questions:
> Would/could a compressor failing result in iron filings/debris being
> circulated thoughout the system?[/color]


It's not typically what happens but yes. Espessially when improperly serviced.


[color=blue]
> Should the garage have got a specialist firm to flush the system
> through with ?nitrogen before connecting up a new compressor?[/color]


Any qualified a/c technician should have no problem repairing your a/c
system correctly.

Nitrogen is a gas and typically used for leak testing. Flushing the system
is typically done with liquid chemicals and to separate parts indivudally.
ie:)condenser, evaporator coils, metering device, tubing and so on.


[color=blue]
> Is there any other way iron filings/metal fragments are likely to get
> into the system?[/color]

no

[color=blue]
> Is this a soluble problem or am I throwing good money after bad?[/color]


A a/c system with this problem is not a cheap repair but not a problem
when reapirs are done properly.

[color=blue]
>
> Any commments would be welcome
>[/color]


I would expect the shop to cover all costs for repairs unless they were forced to
do such a lousy job buy the owner cutting corners?

You should make sure the system components were disconnected and flushed. (can not flush the assembled system properly)
The accumulator/dryer or receiver/dryer should be replaced any time the system has been exposed to air.
The a/c system should work just like it did when your car was new if its repaired correctly.



GL
Dan

IMHO:

On 10 Oct 2006 14:18:13 -0700, "Charles Crawley"
<charles.crawley@ntlworld.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Can anyone tell me if I am being taken for a ride?
>
>I have a 2003 Toyota previa with a bust airconditioning system. A local
>firm specialising in airconditioning diagnosed a broken compressor and
>replaced it. they commented that there were iron filings in the system
>which they say came from the compressor when it broke down. The system
>was flushed out (apparently) but did not work properly (ie did not blow
>very cold). It broke down again after about 20 min use. The garage
>then got a second firm in to flush the system with ?nitrogen but this
>did not work. I am now told the new compressor has seized up.
>
>questions:
>Would/could a compressor failing result in iron filings/debris being
>circulated thoughout the system?[/color]

Yes.
[color=blue]
>Should the garage have got a specialist firm to flush the system
>through with ?nitrogen before connecting up a new compressor?[/color]

A simple flush should have cleared everything the first time.
[color=blue]
>Is there any other way iron filings/metal fragments are likely to get
>into the system?[/color]

Tyicially when I ran into people complaing about 'metal parts' it came
from the compressor actually breaking down.
[color=blue]
>Is this a soluble problem or am I throwing good money after bad?[/color]

I would suggest that a young vehicle, you might want to evaluate who
you go to. A crapped out AC compressor, usually comes from a large AC
leak, resulting in a loss in oil. So I would check, if you had no
leak, then this might be a manufacturing defect. Contact Toyota, or a
Toyota dealer.
[color=blue]
>
>Any commments would be welcome[/color]


Everything I wrote, is based on what I've seen/heard from other cars,
I'm not looking at yours, so this is all guessing.

BTW, you made the choice to go to this service company, so to keep the
warranty coverd, you have to keep doing back to them and it shouldn't
cost you anything. If you are outside of the warranity, you might
want to seek other's help.

Just thinking out loud,

tom