"Nobby" <nobbyondanet@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:NxI_g.33059$L.18166@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...
How do you turn the mixture up on a 1990 Celica
--
Nobby
************
When you say "turn the mixture up" do you mean that you are asking how to
make the air-fuel mixture richer or leaner? If so, then the answer is that
the air/fuel mixture is not designed to be user-adjustable.
Why do you want to alter the air-fuel mixture? Is the car running poorly?
--
Basically it's pinging and quite flat on performance since I have put a cold air intake and a straight through performance exhaust system on. I have turned the timing back 3 degrees to try and stop the pinging but according to a emissions test it is showing around 0.4% and it has 200215 miles on the clock and sounds like new with no smoke or rattle/rumble what's so ever.
The engine is a G3SE engine, although the top of my engine seems to be very hard to find anywhere in the UK, due to the plenum chamber and intake which is built all over the top of the rocker cover unlike all other G3SE engines including Jap spec designs. All the top parts are nearly all squared of and almost hiding the plugs from view and the only thing that seems to be adjustable is a spade ended screw on the top of the throttle valve block that the air intake ducting attaches to. Does this screw adjust the air, to increase/decrease the mixture?
--
Nobby
Never let the bastards grind you down...
Think positive and get even!!!
"Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message news:91487$453b9831$180ffe52$19859@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
"Nobby" <nobbyondanet@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:NxI_g.33059$L.18166@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...
How do you turn the mixture up on a 1990 Celica
--
Nobby
************
When you say "turn the mixture up" do you mean that you are asking how to
make the air-fuel mixture richer or leaner? If so, then the answer is that
the air/fuel mixture is not designed to be user-adjustable.
Why do you want to alter the air-fuel mixture? Is the car running poorly?
--
"Nobby" <nobbyondanet@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:L0N_g.36126$Or2.2341@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...
Basically it's pinging and quite flat on performance since I have put a cold
air intake and a straight through performance exhaust system on. I have
turned the timing back 3 degrees to try and stop the pinging but according
to a emissions test it is showing around 0.4% and it has 200215 miles on the
clock and sounds like new with no smoke or rattle/rumble what's so ever.
The engine is a G3SE engine, although the top of my engine seems to be very
hard to find anywhere in the UK, due to the plenum chamber and intake which
is built all over the top of the rocker cover unlike all other G3SE engines
including Jap spec designs. All the top parts are nearly all squared of and
almost hiding the plugs from view and the only thing that seems to be
adjustable is a spade ended screw on the top of the throttle valve block
that the air intake ducting attaches to. Does this screw adjust the air, to
increase/decrease the mixture?
--
Nobby
**************
First, it would help if you posted in plain text instead of HTML ;-)
Pinging can be caused by ignition timing that is too advanced, bad knock
sensor, bad or incorrect spark plugs, and deposits in the combustion
chamber.
With a timing light on the engine while the engine is running, rap on the
side of the block with a hammer and see if ignition timing retards after you
bank on the block. If it does not, check the knock sensor.
Check the MAF sensor for deposits on the hot wire.
Check for leaks in the intake between the MAF sensor and throttle body and
check for manifold vacuumm leaks.
Does the problem occure on WOT or just partial throttle? If just partial
throttle and not wide open throttle, check the #1 O2 sensor operation.
I'm not sure about the screw, but it probably adjusts bypass air and not
fuel mixture. Fuel mixture is adjsuted by altering injector pulse timing.
--
Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)
**************************
"Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message
news:91487$453b9831$180ffe52$19859@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
"Nobby" <nobbyondanet@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:NxI_g.33059$L.18166@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...
How do you turn the mixture up on a 1990 Celica
--
Nobby
************
When you say "turn the mixture up" do you mean that you are asking how to
make the air-fuel mixture richer or leaner? If so, then the answer is that
the air/fuel mixture is not designed to be user-adjustable.
Why do you want to alter the air-fuel mixture? Is the car running poorly?
--
The mix on a 3sge can be adjusted in many ways. but first I would put a higher grade of fuel in it to stop the pinging as the 3sge heads are very very prone to cracking when the motor pings.
The idle mix screw is hidden under a plug on the outlet side of the airflow meter if you have one. it adjusts the amount of air bypassing the flap inside. screw it out to allow more air past and lean out the mix. You can also pop open the top of the airlow meter and loosen or tighten the clock spring that profides resistance for the flap. this will affect the amount of fuel and the amount of timing the motor gets. If you have a map senser I would look for a vacuum leak in the system, this is proberbly causing the pinging and flat running.
You could also get a variable pot and wire inline with the water temp sensor to change the mix that way, kind of running with the choke on.
Or finally you could bite the bullit and get a interceptor compunter such as a unichip installed, this is the most expensive but will yead the best results and should you make any more mods such as using a 5s crank to stroke it you can account for them as well.
Nicholas
"Nobby" <nobbyondanet@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:L0N_g.36126$Or2.2341@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...
Basically it's pinging and quite flat on performance since I have put a cold air intake and a straight through performance exhaust system on. I have turned the timing back 3 degrees to try and stop the pinging but according to a emissions test it is showing around 0.4% and it has 200215 miles on the clock and sounds like new with no smoke or rattle/rumble what's so ever.
The engine is a G3SE engine, although the top of my engine seems to be very hard to find anywhere in the UK, due to the plenum chamber and intake which is built all over the top of the rocker cover unlike all other G3SE engines including Jap spec designs. All the top parts are nearly all squared of and almost hiding the plugs from view and the only thing that seems to be adjustable is a spade ended screw on the top of the throttle valve block that the air intake ducting attaches to. Does this screw adjust the air, to increase/decrease the mixture?
--
Nobby
Never let the bastards grind you down...
Think positive and get even!!!
"Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message news:91487$453b9831$180ffe52$19859@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
"Nobby" <nobbyondanet@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:NxI_g.33059$L.18166@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...
How do you turn the mixture up on a 1990 Celica
--
Nobby
************
When you say "turn the mixture up" do you mean that you are asking how to
make the air-fuel mixture richer or leaner? If so, then the answer is that
the air/fuel mixture is not designed to be user-adjustable.
Why do you want to alter the air-fuel mixture? Is the car running poorly?
--
No air flo meter on this particular engine, in fact when I took it for the MOT we had trouble, finding the engine spec was defiantly not the type for the type of car I have, In fact nothing on the data base at the ministry of transport. The car has only one previous owner, with every piece of document and receipt he had from new stamped at a Toyota dealer, even the DVLA came up with the engine design, spec and block number from the day it was registered. STRANGE!!!!
--
Nobby
Never let the bastards grind you down...
Think positive and get even!!!
"Nicholas Bourne" <nbourne@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message news:453be9a8@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
The mix on a 3sge can be adjusted in many ways. but first I would put a higher grade of fuel in it to stop the pinging as the 3sge heads are very very prone to cracking when the motor pings.
The idle mix screw is hidden under a plug on the outlet side of the airflow meter if you have one. it adjusts the amount of air bypassing the flap inside. screw it out to allow more air past and lean out the mix. You can also pop open the top of the airlow meter and loosen or tighten the clock spring that profides resistance for the flap. this will affect the amount of fuel and the amount of timing the motor gets. If you have a map senser I would look for a vacuum leak in the system, this is proberbly causing the pinging and flat running.
You could also get a variable pot and wire inline with the water temp sensor to change the mix that way, kind of running with the choke on.
Or finally you could bite the bullit and get a interceptor compunter such as a unichip installed, this is the most expensive but will yead the best results and should you make any more mods such as using a 5s crank to stroke it you can account for them as well.
Nicholas
"Nobby" <nobbyondanet@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:L0N_g.36126$Or2.2341@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...
Basically it's pinging and quite flat on performance since I have put a cold air intake and a straight through performance exhaust system on. I have turned the timing back 3 degrees to try and stop the pinging but according to a emissions test it is showing around 0.4% and it has 200215 miles on the clock and sounds like new with no smoke or rattle/rumble what's so ever.
The engine is a G3SE engine, although the top of my engine seems to be very hard to find anywhere in the UK, due to the plenum chamber and intake which is built all over the top of the rocker cover unlike all other G3SE engines including Jap spec designs. All the top parts are nearly all squared of and almost hiding the plugs from view and the only thing that seems to be adjustable is a spade ended screw on the top of the throttle valve block that the air intake ducting attaches to. Does this screw adjust the air, to increase/decrease the mixture?
--
Nobby
Never let the bastards grind you down...
Think positive and get even!!!
"Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message news:91487$453b9831$180ffe52$19859@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
"Nobby" <nobbyondanet@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:NxI_g.33059$L.18166@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...
How do you turn the mixture up on a 1990 Celica
--
Nobby
************
When you say "turn the mixture up" do you mean that you are asking how to
make the air-fuel mixture richer or leaner? If so, then the answer is that
the air/fuel mixture is not designed to be user-adjustable.
Why do you want to alter the air-fuel mixture? Is the car running poorly?
--
I found a Pic of the type of 3SGE you have and I think the screw you are talking about on the throttle body is the idle speed adjustment screw. This type of manifold appears to STD on the 3sge after the TVIS was dropped. you can see it in the celica MR2 and caldina. When they dropped the TVIS they also dropped the airflow meter. Get the MOT guy to check again as I would people in britian with that motor on the web so the data must be somewhere.
I would look to see if any vacuum lines got knocked off when they put the cold air intake on. does the car run rough at idle? it could be that with a free flowing exhaust and modified air intake you changed the amount of "fresh air" the car get compared to the old system. resulting in more oxygen getting in and it therefore needing more fuel. did you get new extractors for the motor? it could have killed the O2 sensor when it was burning off.
also how did you change the timing. to do it properly the car needs to be warmed up, and have the t and e1 terminals of the diagnosstic connertor bridged to hold the motor on the base timing so you can adjust the dissy correctly.
"Nobby" <nobbyondanet@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:7d4%g.26387$w07.21052@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
No air flo meter on this particular engine, in fact when I took it for the MOT we had trouble, finding the engine spec was defiantly not the type for the type of car I have, In fact nothing on the data base at the ministry of transport. The car has only one previous owner, with every piece of document and receipt he had from new stamped at a Toyota dealer, even the DVLA came up with the engine design, spec and block number from the day it was registered. STRANGE!!!!
--
Nobby
Never let the bastards grind you down...
Think positive and get even!!!
"Nicholas Bourne" <nbourne@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message news:453be9a8@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
The mix on a 3sge can be adjusted in many ways. but first I would put a higher grade of fuel in it to stop the pinging as the 3sge heads are very very prone to cracking when the motor pings.
The idle mix screw is hidden under a plug on the outlet side of the airflow meter if you have one. it adjusts the amount of air bypassing the flap inside. screw it out to allow more air past and lean out the mix. You can also pop open the top of the airlow meter and loosen or tighten the clock spring that profides resistance for the flap. this will affect the amount of fuel and the amount of timing the motor gets. If you have a map senser I would look for a vacuum leak in the system, this is proberbly causing the pinging and flat running.
You could also get a variable pot and wire inline with the water temp sensor to change the mix that way, kind of running with the choke on.
Or finally you could bite the bullit and get a interceptor compunter such as a unichip installed, this is the most expensive but will yead the best results and should you make any more mods such as using a 5s crank to stroke it you can account for them as well.
Nicholas
"Nobby" <nobbyondanet@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:L0N_g.36126$Or2.2341@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...
Basically it's pinging and quite flat on performance since I have put a cold air intake and a straight through performance exhaust system on. I have turned the timing back 3 degrees to try and stop the pinging but according to a emissions test it is showing around 0.4% and it has 200215 miles on the clock and sounds like new with no smoke or rattle/rumble what's so ever.
The engine is a G3SE engine, although the top of my engine seems to be very hard to find anywhere in the UK, due to the plenum chamber and intake which is built all over the top of the rocker cover unlike all other G3SE engines including Jap spec designs. All the top parts are nearly all squared of and almost hiding the plugs from view and the only thing that seems to be adjustable is a spade ended screw on the top of the throttle valve block that the air intake ducting attaches to. Does this screw adjust the air, to increase/decrease the mixture?
--
Nobby
Never let the bastards grind you down...
Think positive and get even!!!
"Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message news:91487$453b9831$180ffe52$19859@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
"Nobby" <nobbyondanet@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:NxI_g.33059$L.18166@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...
How do you turn the mixture up on a 1990 Celica
--
Nobby
************
When you say "turn the mixture up" do you mean that you are asking how to
make the air-fuel mixture richer or leaner? If so, then the answer is that
the air/fuel mixture is not designed to be user-adjustable.
Why do you want to alter the air-fuel mixture? Is the car running poorly?
--
I did the timing with the engine at normal running temp with the terminals on the diagnostic adapter bridged and at the speed a Haynes manual said turned to 15 degrees.
The original ducting off the valve block has only a ambient air temperature sensor which I have tested, and reads the correct value in omes, and is now fitted lower where the air comes in. I understood that the colder the air the denser the air, there for more fuel is needed to richen the mix, also the sensor tells the ECU the air need richening as if it were a cold day or started from cold.
One thing that did puzzle me was that the timing advanced very quick and not progressive through the rev range, kind of all or nothing if you no what I mean. So if I were to rev it gradually the timing would be about where it should be, but suddenly jump to its limit.
I've messed with cars for years but not as complex as this and can't remember a dizy that act's this way. The only parts on the dizy are the wires and pick up coil with no other parts to wear out, so I can only assume the ECU does all the calculations with the various info from different sensors, but all the readings from the diagnostic plug read within there limits...
--
Nobby
Never let the bastards grind you down...
Think positive and get even!!!
"Nicholas Bourne" <nbourne@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message news:453cde05@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
I found a Pic of the type of 3SGE you have and I think the screw you are talking about on the throttle body is the idle speed adjustment screw. This type of manifold appears to STD on the 3sge after the TVIS was dropped. you can see it in the celica MR2 and caldina. When they dropped the TVIS they also dropped the airflow meter. Get the MOT guy to check again as I would people in britian with that motor on the web so the data must be somewhere.
I would look to see if any vacuum lines got knocked off when they put the cold air intake on. does the car run rough at idle? it could be that with a free flowing exhaust and modified air intake you changed the amount of "fresh air" the car get compared to the old system. resulting in more oxygen getting in and it therefore needing more fuel. did you get new extractors for the motor? it could have killed the O2 sensor when it was burning off.
also how did you change the timing. to do it properly the car needs to be warmed up, and have the t and e1 terminals of the diagnosstic connertor bridged to hold the motor on the base timing so you can adjust the dissy correctly.
"Nobby" <nobbyondanet@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:7d4%g.26387$w07.21052@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
No air flo meter on this particular engine, in fact when I took it for the MOT we had trouble, finding the engine spec was defiantly not the type for the type of car I have, In fact nothing on the data base at the ministry of transport. The car has only one previous owner, with every piece of document and receipt he had from new stamped at a Toyota dealer, even the DVLA came up with the engine design, spec and block number from the day it was registered. STRANGE!!!!
--
Nobby
Never let the bastards grind you down...
Think positive and get even!!!
"Nicholas Bourne" <nbourne@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message news:453be9a8@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
The mix on a 3sge can be adjusted in many ways. but first I would put a higher grade of fuel in it to stop the pinging as the 3sge heads are very very prone to cracking when the motor pings.
The idle mix screw is hidden under a plug on the outlet side of the airflow meter if you have one. it adjusts the amount of air bypassing the flap inside. screw it out to allow more air past and lean out the mix. You can also pop open the top of the airlow meter and loosen or tighten the clock spring that profides resistance for the flap. this will affect the amount of fuel and the amount of timing the motor gets. If you have a map senser I would look for a vacuum leak in the system, this is proberbly causing the pinging and flat running.
You could also get a variable pot and wire inline with the water temp sensor to change the mix that way, kind of running with the choke on.
Or finally you could bite the bullit and get a interceptor compunter such as a unichip installed, this is the most expensive but will yead the best results and should you make any more mods such as using a 5s crank to stroke it you can account for them as well.
Nicholas
"Nobby" <nobbyondanet@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:L0N_g.36126$Or2.2341@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...
Basically it's pinging and quite flat on performance since I have put a cold air intake and a straight through performance exhaust system on. I have turned the timing back 3 degrees to try and stop the pinging but according to a emissions test it is showing around 0.4% and it has 200215 miles on the clock and sounds like new with no smoke or rattle/rumble what's so ever.
The engine is a G3SE engine, although the top of my engine seems to be very hard to find anywhere in the UK, due to the plenum chamber and intake which is built all over the top of the rocker cover unlike all other G3SE engines including Jap spec designs. All the top parts are nearly all squared of and almost hiding the plugs from view and the only thing that seems to be adjustable is a spade ended screw on the top of the throttle valve block that the air intake ducting attaches to. Does this screw adjust the air, to increase/decrease the mixture?
--
Nobby
Never let the bastards grind you down...
Think positive and get even!!!
"Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message news:91487$453b9831$180ffe52$19859@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
"Nobby" <nobbyondanet@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:NxI_g.33059$L.18166@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...
How do you turn the mixture up on a 1990 Celica
--
Nobby
************
When you say "turn the mixture up" do you mean that you are asking how to
make the air-fuel mixture richer or leaner? If so, then the answer is that
the air/fuel mixture is not designed to be user-adjustable.
Why do you want to alter the air-fuel mixture? Is the car running poorly?
--
15 degrees base timing is way to much for these engines on normal fuel (91 RON), 10 is normally what you need to set.
You can get away with 12 degrees if you use a 98 RON fuel which will give you a bit more power.
There could be a chance it was accadently altered when the cold air was fitted.
The timing will advance very quickly from idle if you free rev the motor. the ECU detects no load and sets the timing to around 30 degrees.
If you want to see it work normally get someone to load the motor on the greabox while you stand to one side and look.
I don't recomend you do that though in case something goes wrong and the car moves.
Reset the timing and you should be ok, hayes can be wrong, if you do up the driveshaft nuts to the setting in the hayes manual you will distry frount hubs every 15000km.
A Toyota mechanic told be you need to add 50 foot-pound of torque to it and they last 70000km+ then.
"Nobby" <nobbyondanet@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:6w5%g.26396$w07.3033@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
I did the timing with the engine at normal running temp with the terminals on the diagnostic adapter bridged and at the speed a Haynes manual said turned to 15 degrees.
The original ducting off the valve block has only a ambient air temperature sensor which I have tested, and reads the correct value in omes, and is now fitted lower where the air comes in. I understood that the colder the air the denser the air, there for more fuel is needed to richen the mix, also the sensor tells the ECU the air need richening as if it were a cold day or started from cold.
One thing that did puzzle me was that the timing advanced very quick and not progressive through the rev range, kind of all or nothing if you no what I mean. So if I were to rev it gradually the timing would be about where it should be, but suddenly jump to its limit.
I've messed with cars for years but not as complex as this and can't remember a dizy that act's this way. The only parts on the dizy are the wires and pick up coil with no other parts to wear out, so I can only assume the ECU does all the calculations with the various info from different sensors, but all the readings from the diagnostic plug read within there limits...
--
Nobby
Never let the bastards grind you down...
Think positive and get even!!!
"Nicholas Bourne" <nbourne@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message news:453cde05@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
I found a Pic of the type of 3SGE you have and I think the screw you are talking about on the throttle body is the idle speed adjustment screw. This type of manifold appears to STD on the 3sge after the TVIS was dropped. you can see it in the celica MR2 and caldina. When they dropped the TVIS they also dropped the airflow meter. Get the MOT guy to check again as I would people in britian with that motor on the web so the data must be somewhere.
I would look to see if any vacuum lines got knocked off when they put the cold air intake on. does the car run rough at idle? it could be that with a free flowing exhaust and modified air intake you changed the amount of "fresh air" the car get compared to the old system. resulting in more oxygen getting in and it therefore needing more fuel. did you get new extractors for the motor? it could have killed the O2 sensor when it was burning off.
also how did you change the timing. to do it properly the car needs to be warmed up, and have the t and e1 terminals of the diagnosstic connertor bridged to hold the motor on the base timing so you can adjust the dissy correctly.
"Nobby" <nobbyondanet@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:7d4%g.26387$w07.21052@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
No air flo meter on this particular engine, in fact when I took it for the MOT we had trouble, finding the engine spec was defiantly not the type for the type of car I have, In fact nothing on the data base at the ministry of transport. The car has only one previous owner, with every piece of document and receipt he had from new stamped at a Toyota dealer, even the DVLA came up with the engine design, spec and block number from the day it was registered. STRANGE!!!!
--
Nobby
Never let the bastards grind you down...
Think positive and get even!!!
"Nicholas Bourne" <nbourne@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message news:453be9a8@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
The mix on a 3sge can be adjusted in many ways. but first I would put a higher grade of fuel in it to stop the pinging as the 3sge heads are very very prone to cracking when the motor pings.
The idle mix screw is hidden under a plug on the outlet side of the airflow meter if you have one. it adjusts the amount of air bypassing the flap inside. screw it out to allow more air past and lean out the mix. You can also pop open the top of the airlow meter and loosen or tighten the clock spring that profides resistance for the flap. this will affect the amount of fuel and the amount of timing the motor gets. If you have a map senser I would look for a vacuum leak in the system, this is proberbly causing the pinging and flat running.
You could also get a variable pot and wire inline with the water temp sensor to change the mix that way, kind of running with the choke on.
Or finally you could bite the bullit and get a interceptor compunter such as a unichip installed, this is the most expensive but will yead the best results and should you make any more mods such as using a 5s crank to stroke it you can account for them as well.
Nicholas
"Nobby" <nobbyondanet@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:L0N_g.36126$Or2.2341@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...
Basically it's pinging and quite flat on performance since I have put a cold air intake and a straight through performance exhaust system on. I have turned the timing back 3 degrees to try and stop the pinging but according to a emissions test it is showing around 0.4% and it has 200215 miles on the clock and sounds like new with no smoke or rattle/rumble what's so ever.
The engine is a G3SE engine, although the top of my engine seems to be very hard to find anywhere in the UK, due to the plenum chamber and intake which is built all over the top of the rocker cover unlike all other G3SE engines including Jap spec designs. All the top parts are nearly all squared of and almost hiding the plugs from view and the only thing that seems to be adjustable is a spade ended screw on the top of the throttle valve block that the air intake ducting attaches to. Does this screw adjust the air, to increase/decrease the mixture?
--
Nobby
Never let the bastards grind you down...
Think positive and get even!!!
"Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message news:91487$453b9831$180ffe52$19859@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
"Nobby" <nobbyondanet@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:NxI_g.33059$L.18166@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...
How do you turn the mixture up on a 1990 Celica
--
Nobby
************
When you say "turn the mixture up" do you mean that you are asking how to
make the air-fuel mixture richer or leaner? If so, then the answer is that
the air/fuel mixture is not designed to be user-adjustable.
Why do you want to alter the air-fuel mixture? Is the car running poorly?
--
Nobby wrote:[color=blue]
> Basically it's pinging and quite flat on performance since I have put a cold air intake and a straight through performance exhaust system on. I have turned the timing back 3 degrees to try and stop the pinging but according to a emissions test it is showing around 0.4% and it has 200215 miles on the clock and sounds like new with no smoke or rattle/rumble what's so ever.
>[/color]
Generally a cold intake and exhaust are not worth the effort, TBH.
[color=blue]
> The engine is a G3SE engine, although the top of my engine seems to be very hard to find anywhere in the UK,[/color]
Its a 3SGE engine actually, and they are as common as muck. Well,
relatively. I have the turbocharged big brother, the 3SGTE. Virtually
any MR2 or celica of this age has the 3SGE or GTE engine.
[color=blue]
> due to the plenum chamber and intake which is built all over the top of the rocker cover unlike all other G3SE engines including Jap spec designs.[/color]
If you have the plenum and intake OVER the rocker cover (pointing
towards the exhaust manfold) its either a 3sgte or its something some
has modified to be somewhere in between - the 3sge has a side-feed
manifold.
All the top parts are nearly all squared of and almost hiding the
plugs from view and the only thing that seems to be adjustable is a
spade ended screw on the top of the throttle valve block that the air
intake ducting attaches to. Does this screw adjust the air, to
increase/decrease the mixture?
Drop me an email with a picture. But the point is you wont be able to
adjust the mixture as its entirely electronically controlled until
about 80% WOT. If you adjust the base-bypass amount it will barely
effect the on-throttle mixture and will screw up your idle. You may
want to adjust your air flow meter but thats risky - as that adjusts
timing advance also and shouldnt be attempted without exhaust gas
analysis tools and a rolling road.
You're feeling flat because you backed the timing off, I'll wager, so
if you have pinking try running some shell V-power in it instead - this
will help. If you got excessive pinking you may have damaged the knock
sensor but you'd likely throw an ECU code for that. Set your timing
back to normal and use V-power or optimax (anything 98/99 RON) and see
how it performs.
Nicholas Bourne wrote:[color=blue]
> The mix on a 3sge can be adjusted in many ways. but first I would put a higher grade of fuel in it to stop the pinging as the 3sge heads are very very prone to cracking when the motor pings.[/color]
Errr are they? Ive seen engines with pistons blown apart through
detonation but with no head damage. In fact ive yet to see anything
other than overheat-warpage damage on a 3sge/3sgte head!
[color=blue]
>
> The idle mix screw is hidden under a plug on the outlet side of the airflow meter if you have one. it adjusts the amount of air bypassing the flap inside. screw it out to allow more air past and lean out the mix. You can also pop open the top of the airlow meter and loosen or tighten the clock spring that profides resistance for the flap. this will affect the amount of fuel and the amount of timing the motor gets. If you have a map senser I would look for a vacuum leak in the system, this is proberbly causing the pinging and flat running.
>
> You could also get a variable pot and wire inline with the water temp sensor to change the mix that way, kind of running with the choke on.
>
> Or finally you could bite the bullit and get a interceptor compunter such as a unichip installed, this is the most expensive but will yead the best results and should you make any more mods such as using a 5s crank to stroke it you can account for them as well.[/color]
Bypassing the AFM and adjusting the water temp sensor without the
relevant AFR measuring tools is dangerous for the health of your
engine. Too rich and you'll get bore wash and oil contamination, too
lean and detonation/pinking problems will do damage (usually to the
piston ringlands first).
Cold intake and exhaust should not cause this level of performance
change - in fact id be amazed if it caused any level of performance
change that was feelable. He needs to address the cause of the pinking
- to lean it out to the point where pinking was a problem he'd have to
have had a super-cooled intercooler fitted :D Its far more likely he
has introduced an air leak somewhere or other such fault. Remember the
EFI system on the 3SGE engine measures intake temperature and includes
that as part of its calculations for fuelling so it should not require
change due to the intake. The exhaust wont effect the pinking so id be
looking elsewhere and not using supermarket fuel!
Nobby wrote:[color=blue]
> I did the timing with the engine at normal running temp with the terminals on the diagnostic adapter bridged and at the speed a Haynes manual said turned to 15 degrees.
>
> The original ducting off the valve block has only a ambient air temperature sensor which I have tested, and reads the correct value in omes, and is now fitted lower where the air comes in. I understood that the colder the air the denser the air, there for more fuel is needed to richen the mix, also the sensor tells the ECU the air need richening as if it were a cold day or started from cold.
>
> One thing that did puzzle me was that the timing advanced very quick and not progressive through the rev range, kind of all or nothing if you no what I mean. So if I were to rev it gradually the timing would be about where it should be, but suddenly jump to its limit.
>
> I've messed with cars for years but not as complex as this and can't remember a dizy that act's this way. The only parts on the dizy are the wires and pick up coil with no other parts to wear out, so I can only assume the ECU does all the calculations with the various info from different sensors, but all the readings from the diagnostic plug read within there limits...
>
> --
> Nobby[/color]
Find me a picture of the engine mate. Sounds like you have a totally
non-standard installation - id be asking the previous owner exactly
what had been done to it - to be runnign with no AFM you are either
running an ST20X series engine or an aftermarket ECU - in which case
you need to know what its up to to make modifications.
When you set the timing at 10 degrees you bridge the terminals in the
port and it holds the ECU from moving it while you adjust. When you
remove the bridge the ECU will push it back up - the idle timing of the
3sgte is best around 24-27 degrees BTDC so it wont even show when the
terminals are de-bridged!
Unlike carb cars or more simple versions the celica (and certainly one
with aftermarket ECUs) are not a case of tweaking screws to adjust. You
will feel flat on performance if youre car is pulling too much timing
and pinking - the ECU notices this and pulls the timing back as far as
possible. If you are still getting pinking you have a problem or the
ECU cant pull it back far enough (i.e. your base timing is screwed up,
not at 10*)
Firstly MAF, this is for Mass Air Flo, am I correct? Gary says its got a
G3SE lump that reads on the on the computer as a ST182 series.
The Plenum chamber squared and fitted directly over the rocker with the 4
branches pointing to the bulkhead and 4 valve system and the Air intake
snorkel is from the right of the car body as you look at it from the front
to where the original filter was fitted.
The car body is the is the rounded shape not the squared pre 1990 shape.
No Cat
No flow meter on the air box
1 previous owner
No previous modds, and all stamped at Toyota from new.
Slow take off
Shitty on fuel
At around 90 miles an hour it seems a lot more responsive, topping out at
120+ miles an hour
With the rev limiter jammed it goes nuclear at 140+ miles an hour at nearly
8000rmp
--
Nobby
Never let the bastards grind you down...
Think positive and get even!!!
"Nobby" <nobbyondanet@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:NxI_g.33059$L.18166@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...
How do you turn the mixture up on a 1990 Celica
--
Nobby
Never let the bastards grind you down...
Think positive and get even!!!
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