97 Tercel: Been sitting, runs rough, ODD PROBLEM..read on...

OK, at least this seems odd to me:

Looking to buy this particular car from a friend. Have not witnessed
this problem personally. This is second hand info from a trusted
friend. However (apparently) once before after sitting for several
months and then starting the car for the first time in a long time...it
started fine but ran REALLY rough, almost as if it were firing on 3
cylinders instead of 4. So, they limped it up to AutoZone, hooked up
the OBDII tool (I presume), did "something" and from then on out the
car ran like a champ. What the heck is this problem? Did the trip to
Autozone really fix it? What gives? one thought was that it had
something to do with the security system. (?) Or resetting the ECU.
(?) Advice welcome. Thanks!

KL

On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 03:21:42 -0800, Dr. Chicago wrote:
[color=blue]
> OK, at least this seems odd to me:
>
> Looking to buy this particular car from a friend. Have not witnessed
> this problem personally. This is second hand info from a trusted
> friend. However (apparently) once before after sitting for several
> months and then starting the car for the first time in a long time...it
> started fine but ran REALLY rough, almost as if it were firing on 3
> cylinders instead of 4. So, they limped it up to AutoZone, hooked up
> the OBDII tool (I presume), did "something" and from then on out the
> car ran like a champ. What the heck is this problem? Did the trip to
> Autozone really fix it? What gives? one thought was that it had
> something to do with the security system. (?) Or resetting the ECU.
> (?) Advice welcome. Thanks!
>
> KL[/color]


Probably a combination of resetting the ECU, and, did you put any GAS in
it while you were out with it?

My first 'guess' was old gas. My second guess was that one of the coil
packs was shot, but looking at the ECU wouldn't fix that.

When the ECU throws a code and the MIL comes on, the car goes into 'limp'
mode. It will run, but not real efficiently (how about a 10 MPG difference
on my '95!!). It may have been in limp mode, and when you reset the ECU it
reset and is running properly.

Drive it for a few days and see what happens. Then post here and I'll come
and get it! (missing my '95..)

"Dr. Chicago" <lee.kevin@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1162293702.538871.227130@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> OK, at least this seems odd to me:
>
> Looking to buy this particular car from a friend. Have not witnessed
> this problem personally. This is second hand info from a trusted
> friend. However (apparently) once before after sitting for several
> months and then starting the car for the first time in a long time...it
> started fine but ran REALLY rough, almost as if it were firing on 3
> cylinders instead of 4. So, they limped it up to AutoZone, hooked up
> the OBDII tool (I presume), did "something" and from then on out the
> car ran like a champ. What the heck is this problem? Did the trip to
> Autozone really fix it? What gives? one thought was that it had
> something to do with the security system. (?) Or resetting the ECU.
> (?) Advice welcome. Thanks!
>
> KL
>[/color]

Hooking a car up to a code scanner will not make a difference in how the
engine runs.

The car will have to be checked out to properly diagnose the problem.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 10:31:32 -0600, "Ray O"
<rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Hooking a car up to a code scanner will not make a difference in how the
>engine runs.
>
>The car will have to be checked out to properly diagnose the problem.[/color]

Bull! They didn't tell you in class about the "Never do it in front
of the Mechanic!" circuit in the OBD-II connector? Plug in a code
scanner, and no matter what the problem was it'll clear right up...

;-P

This used to be much harder for the car makers to pull off reliably
and undetected before the advent of computers and OBD - like the flaky
ignition modules that would only fail while off-roading 20 miles from
civilization, they had to rely on an old-fashioned "Critical Need
Sensor" (made famous by Murphy Industries) to decide when to fail.

But thanks to modern electronics our cars and trucks can frustrate
us a whole lot better and more reliably than ever before.

"When they're good they're very very good, but when they're bad..."

--<< Bruce >>--

PS: Okay, I'll let go of your leg now. Sheesh.

"Bruce L. Bergman" <blPYTHONbergman@earthlink.invalid> wrote in message
news:aj3fk2hujjao4in4vtrkbbplt4o4lrps08@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 10:31:32 -0600, "Ray O"
> <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>Hooking a car up to a code scanner will not make a difference in how the
>>engine runs.
>>
>>The car will have to be checked out to properly diagnose the problem.[/color]
>
> Bull! They didn't tell you in class about the "Never do it in front
> of the Mechanic!" circuit in the OBD-II connector? Plug in a code
> scanner, and no matter what the problem was it'll clear right up...
>
> ;-P[/color]

LOL! I am very familiar with that circuit. It seems like only a small
percentage of the cars I checked out actually exhibited the condition the
customer was complaining about on the first look. I'd tell customers that
it is like going to the dentist with a toothache that miraculously
disappears as soon as you're in the dentist's chair.
[color=blue]
>
> This used to be much harder for the car makers to pull off reliably
> and undetected before the advent of computers and OBD - like the flaky
> ignition modules that would only fail while off-roading 20 miles from
> civilization, they had to rely on an old-fashioned "Critical Need
> Sensor" (made famous by Murphy Industries) to decide when to fail.
>
> But thanks to modern electronics our cars and trucks can frustrate
> us a whole lot better and more reliably than ever before.
>
> "When they're good they're very very good, but when they're bad..."
>
> --<< Bruce >>--
>
> PS: Okay, I'll let go of your leg now. Sheesh.
>[/color]

Unfortunately, even with the advent of OBD II, someone with a clue has to
look at the car in order to figure out what is going on.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

OK, let's call it limp mode. So why might this have naturally occorred
after a couple months sitting? And why/how was it cleared at A-Zone.
No gas was added. Just the problem and a trip to A-Zone and everything
was good after that. That was the first time. Now it's sitting again
and apparently behaving the same way again. I'm trying to find out if
this is typical and if I repeat the "fix" and drive it regularly if
anyone forsees any problem. The guy that did it before never had a
single problem and got the 30mpg after his trip to A-Zone that I
described. Thanks.

KL

"Dr. Chicago" <lee.kevin@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1162335422.241951.285370@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> OK, let's call it limp mode. So why might this have naturally occorred
> after a couple months sitting? And why/how was it cleared at A-Zone.
> No gas was added. Just the problem and a trip to A-Zone and everything
> was good after that. That was the first time. Now it's sitting again
> and apparently behaving the same way again. I'm trying to find out if
> this is typical and if I repeat the "fix" and drive it regularly if
> anyone forsees any problem. The guy that did it before never had a
> single problem and got the 30mpg after his trip to A-Zone that I
> described. Thanks.
>
> KL
>[/color]

Some people drive like corpses and their cars get clogged arteries. Letting
a car sit will cause the same thing. Do you drive like a corpse?

"Dr. Chicago" <lee.kevin@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1162335422.241951.285370@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> OK, let's call it limp mode. So why might this have naturally occorred
> after a couple months sitting? And why/how was it cleared at A-Zone.
> No gas was added. Just the problem and a trip to A-Zone and everything
> was good after that. That was the first time. Now it's sitting again
> and apparently behaving the same way again. I'm trying to find out if
> this is typical and if I repeat the "fix" and drive it regularly if
> anyone forsees any problem. The guy that did it before never had a
> single problem and got the 30mpg after his trip to A-Zone that I
> described. Thanks.
>
> KL
>[/color]

Actually, I would not call it "limp mode" because that is a different
condition.

Cars run poorly after sitting for a while for several reasons. Animals can
chew wires, debris can accumulate in the air filter and intake plenum,
gasoline forms varnish-like deposits on injectors, and discharged batteries
become sulfated.

I think that it would be worth investing some time in changing the spark
plugs, air filter, coolant, and oil and investing in some Techron fuel
injector cleaner. Be sure to follow the fuel injector cleaner directions
carefully so it doesn't eat fuel lines.

I have no idea why the car cleared up after visiting A-Zone because hooking
up a scan tool has nothing to do with how it runs, any more than checking
your blood pressure will lower your blood pressure, or taking an EKG will
clear up a heart problem.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

"Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message
news:abff0$4547eda6$44a4a10d$9225@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=blue]
>
> "Dr. Chicago" <lee.kevin@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:1162335422.241951.285370@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...[color=green]
>> OK, let's call it limp mode. So why might this have naturally occorred
>> after a couple months sitting? And why/how was it cleared at A-Zone.
>> No gas was added. Just the problem and a trip to A-Zone and everything
>> was good after that. That was the first time. Now it's sitting again
>> and apparently behaving the same way again. I'm trying to find out if
>> this is typical and if I repeat the "fix" and drive it regularly if
>> anyone forsees any problem. The guy that did it before never had a
>> single problem and got the 30mpg after his trip to A-Zone that I
>> described. Thanks.
>>
>> KL
>>[/color]
>
> Actually, I would not call it "limp mode" because that is a different
> condition.
>
> Cars run poorly after sitting for a while for several reasons. Animals
> can chew wires, debris can accumulate in the air filter and intake plenum,
> gasoline forms varnish-like deposits on injectors, and discharged
> batteries become sulfated.
>
> I think that it would be worth investing some time in changing the spark
> plugs, air filter, coolant, and oil and investing in some Techron fuel
> injector cleaner. Be sure to follow the fuel injector cleaner directions
> carefully so it doesn't eat fuel lines.
>
> I have no idea why the car cleared up after visiting A-Zone because
> hooking up a scan tool has nothing to do with how it runs, any more than
> checking your blood pressure will lower your blood pressure, or taking an
> EKG will clear up a heart problem.
> --
>
> Ray O
> (correct punctuation to reply)
>[/color]

Any possibility it could be some crap in the gas tank - seperates while
sitting then gets mixed with fuel due to the movement of the car.

"FantomFan" <reaper_nz@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ei96e9$vuc$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...[color=blue]
>
> "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message
> news:abff0$4547eda6$44a4a10d$9225@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=green]
>>
>> "Dr. Chicago" <lee.kevin@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:1162335422.241951.285370@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...[color=darkred]
>>> OK, let's call it limp mode. So why might this have naturally occorred
>>> after a couple months sitting? And why/how was it cleared at A-Zone.
>>> No gas was added. Just the problem and a trip to A-Zone and everything
>>> was good after that. That was the first time. Now it's sitting again
>>> and apparently behaving the same way again. I'm trying to find out if
>>> this is typical and if I repeat the "fix" and drive it regularly if
>>> anyone forsees any problem. The guy that did it before never had a
>>> single problem and got the 30mpg after his trip to A-Zone that I
>>> described. Thanks.
>>>
>>> KL
>>>[/color]
>>
>> Actually, I would not call it "limp mode" because that is a different
>> condition.
>>
>> Cars run poorly after sitting for a while for several reasons. Animals
>> can chew wires, debris can accumulate in the air filter and intake
>> plenum, gasoline forms varnish-like deposits on injectors, and discharged
>> batteries become sulfated.
>>
>> I think that it would be worth investing some time in changing the spark
>> plugs, air filter, coolant, and oil and investing in some Techron fuel
>> injector cleaner. Be sure to follow the fuel injector cleaner directions
>> carefully so it doesn't eat fuel lines.
>>
>> I have no idea why the car cleared up after visiting A-Zone because
>> hooking up a scan tool has nothing to do with how it runs, any more than
>> checking your blood pressure will lower your blood pressure, or taking an
>> EKG will clear up a heart problem.
>> --
>>
>> Ray O
>> (correct punctuation to reply)
>>[/color]
>
> Any possibility it could be some crap in the gas tank - seperates while
> sitting then gets mixed with fuel due to the movement of the car.[/color]

Possible but not very likely.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

So the mass opinion seems to be that it's an age/lack of use/sitting
thing...NOT some "nature of the beast" ECU/sercurity system issue that
anyone else has ever experienced? And yes, one friend thought it was
some kind of "disable" for the security system after sitting or the
battery going dead or something. So, apparently the trip to AZone did
and could have done nothing. Damn. Now I'm not sure what I'm getting
into. Otherwise the car is tip-top except for the M/T which has to be
replaced (main bearings). Any thoughts on this or these trannys in
general? Thanks.

KL

"Dr. Chicago" <lee.kevin@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1162376778.155855.143000@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> So the mass opinion seems to be that it's an age/lack of use/sitting
> thing...NOT some "nature of the beast" ECU/sercurity system issue that
> anyone else has ever experienced? And yes, one friend thought it was
> some kind of "disable" for the security system after sitting or the
> battery going dead or something. So, apparently the trip to AZone did
> and could have done nothing. Damn. Now I'm not sure what I'm getting
> into. Otherwise the car is tip-top except for the M/T which has to be
> replaced (main bearings). Any thoughts on this or these trannys in
> general? Thanks.
>
> KL
>[/color]

A problem with the security system is more likely to cause a no-start
condition, not a poorly running engine.

As I mentioned, scanning codes does nothing to the ECU.

Start with the stuff I mentioned before.
Good luck!
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

Ok, I have more clarification. Not much help, but info nonetheless.
So, like I said the car has been sitting for approx 6 months and runs
rough (like running on 3 cyls or worse) upon starting. Ok, throw out
the Autozone bit if you wish:

Apparently at any given time you can go out and start it and it will
purr like a kitten for a minute or three and THEN start acting up and
running rough. The pattern varies. All filters and ignition parts are
allegedly no more than 20k old. Just some more nuggets if that means
anything to anyone. Thx.

KL

Oh, and most importantly, did I mention that it's a BlackHawk?
Heh-Heh! There ya go. Now you know everything :-)

"Dr. Chicago" <lee.kevin@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1162546632.865643.227790@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> Ok, I have more clarification. Not much help, but info nonetheless.
> So, like I said the car has been sitting for approx 6 months and runs
> rough (like running on 3 cyls or worse) upon starting. Ok, throw out
> the Autozone bit if you wish:
>
> Apparently at any given time you can go out and start it and it will
> purr like a kitten for a minute or three and THEN start acting up and
> running rough. The pattern varies. All filters and ignition parts are
> allegedly no more than 20k old. Just some more nuggets if that means
> anything to anyone. Thx.
>
> KL
>[/color]

I think you will need to have a competent technician look at the car to
determine what is causing the problem. Things to check are the ignition
system because Toyotas sometimes do not run well on aftermarket ignition
parts; fuel delivery (check fuel pressure and volume to see if there is a
problem with the fuel pressure regulator, fuel filter, or fuel pump); idle
air control valve; MAF sensor; manifold vacuum; and leaks or cracks in the
intake snorkel between the MAF sensor and throttle body.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)