Engine light - does it turn off by itself?

Hi Folks,
98 Sienna, 185K miles. I had what felt like a low RPM engine miss or a
clutch slippage upon start from stop when I put my foot down pretty hard.
It was 'skippy'. Autozone read my codes which were all different versions
of cylinder miss. I changed the plugs and wires (and those 3 plugs in the
rear were an adventure, but I got them - just a 6 inch extension and
reaching around the manifold and patience did it). Runs better now, but
after maybe 15-20 starts the engine light remains on.

So my question is this: Does the light reset itself or does one need to do
something to reset it and then see if I get any more codes? I know my Jeep
TJ resets itself after a while and I wonder if the 98 Sienna does something
similar.

Also - does that Autozone reader have a reset function or what need I do?

Thanks folks,
Tomes

Tomes wrote:
[color=blue]
> So my question is this: Does the light reset itself or does one need to do
> something to reset it and then see if I get any more codes? I know my Jeep[/color]

It depends on what the condition is. It's safest to assume "no".
[color=blue]
> Also - does that Autozone reader have a reset function or what need I do?[/color]

If you are just getting Autozone's staff to read the codes for you,
they are not permitted to clear them. Yes, the reader has a clear
function. You can [on all the cars I've tried it on, anyway] also clear
codes by disconnecting the battery for say an hour. The car will
perform below optimal for a while after this - it needs to relearn the
engine parameters.

It must be reset by your dealer or Autozone


On Sun, 05 Nov 2006 02:39:23 GMT, "Tomes" <askme@here.net> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Hi Folks,
>98 Sienna, 185K miles. I had what felt like a low RPM engine miss or a
>clutch slippage upon start from stop when I put my foot down pretty hard.
>It was 'skippy'. Autozone read my codes which were all different versions
>of cylinder miss. I changed the plugs and wires (and those 3 plugs in the
>rear were an adventure, but I got them - just a 6 inch extension and
>reaching around the manifold and patience did it). Runs better now, but
>after maybe 15-20 starts the engine light remains on.
>
>So my question is this: Does the light reset itself or does one need to do
>something to reset it and then see if I get any more codes? I know my Jeep
>TJ resets itself after a while and I wonder if the 98 Sienna does something
>similar.
>
>Also - does that Autozone reader have a reset function or what need I do?
>
>Thanks folks,
>Tomes
>[/color]

"Tomes" <askme@here.net> wrote in message
news:v9c3h.2433$L6.2238@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...[color=blue]
> Hi Folks,
> 98 Sienna, 185K miles. I had what felt like a low RPM engine miss or a
> clutch slippage upon start from stop when I put my foot down pretty hard.
> It was 'skippy'. Autozone read my codes which were all different versions
> of cylinder miss. I changed the plugs and wires (and those 3 plugs in the
> rear were an adventure, but I got them - just a 6 inch extension and
> reaching around the manifold and patience did it). Runs better now, but
> after maybe 15-20 starts the engine light remains on.
>
> So my question is this: Does the light reset itself or does one need to
> do something to reset it and then see if I get any more codes? I know my
> Jeep TJ resets itself after a while and I wonder if the 98 Sienna does
> something similar.
>
> Also - does that Autozone reader have a reset function or what need I do?
>
> Thanks folks,
> Tomes
>[/color]

There are 3 ways to turn off the light You can disconnect the battery for
60 seconds to clear the codes, you can go back to AutoZone, or you can wait
for the light to turn itself off. The problem is, if the trouble remains,
then the light will not go out.

After you turn off the light, if it comes back on, you should go back and
have it re-scanned. If it is the same trouble codes, check the coil for the
identified cylinders. There are 3 coils on the front side of the engine,
and each coil fires 2 spark plugs at once. If the diagnostic trouble code
points to cylinders that share a coil, then check coil primary and secondary
resistance. I think that some Siennas have had bad coils, which is why I'm
suggesting that you check them out.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

"larwe" <zwsdotcom@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1162696130.661571.264510@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>
> Tomes wrote:
>[color=green]
>> So my question is this: Does the light reset itself or does one need to
>> do
>> something to reset it and then see if I get any more codes? I know my
>> Jeep[/color]
>
> It depends on what the condition is. It's safest to assume "no".
>[color=green]
>> Also - does that Autozone reader have a reset function or what need I do?[/color]
>
> If you are just getting Autozone's staff to read the codes for you,
> they are not permitted to clear them. Yes, the reader has a clear
> function. You can [on all the cars I've tried it on, anyway] also clear
> codes by disconnecting the battery for say an hour. The car will
> perform below optimal for a while after this - it needs to relearn the
> engine parameters.[/color]

About a minute or two is all it takes to clear codes. You can also pull the
EFI fuse to clear the codes. The car does not have to "relearn" engine
parameters because they are programmed into read only memory. If you are
going for an emissions test, the ECU has to go through 2 trip cycles without
detecting an error to register as "ready," but there is no effect engine
performance.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

The guys at Autozone can reset the codes using the same tool they used to
extract them.



"Tomes" <askme@here.net> wrote in message
news:v9c3h.2433$L6.2238@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...[color=blue]
> Hi Folks,
> 98 Sienna, 185K miles. I had what felt like a low RPM engine miss or a
> clutch slippage upon start from stop when I put my foot down pretty hard.
> It was 'skippy'. Autozone read my codes which were all different versions
> of cylinder miss. I changed the plugs and wires (and those 3 plugs in the
> rear were an adventure, but I got them - just a 6 inch extension and
> reaching around the manifold and patience did it). Runs better now, but
> after maybe 15-20 starts the engine light remains on.
>
> So my question is this: Does the light reset itself or does one need to
> do something to reset it and then see if I get any more codes? I know my
> Jeep TJ resets itself after a while and I wonder if the 98 Sienna does
> something similar.
>
> Also - does that Autozone reader have a reset function or what need I do?
>
> Thanks folks,
> Tomes
>[/color]

Ray O wrote:[color=blue]
> EFI fuse to clear the codes. The car does not have to "relearn" engine
> parameters because they are programmed into read only memory. If you are[/color]

Read the manual of any modern car; it needs to recalibrate something
when you replace the battery (they don't specify exactly what).
Observably when I pull the battery from one of my cars, it behaves
oddly ("feels" wrong) for at least the first workday (which is two
25-mile highway trips for me).

"larwe" <zwsdotcom@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1162703201.260059.124470@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>
> Ray O wrote:[color=green]
>> EFI fuse to clear the codes. The car does not have to "relearn" engine
>> parameters because they are programmed into read only memory. If you are[/color]
>
> Read the manual of any modern car; it needs to recalibrate something
> when you replace the battery (they don't specify exactly what).
> Observably when I pull the battery from one of my cars, it behaves
> oddly ("feels" wrong) for at least the first workday (which is two
> 25-mile highway trips for me).
>[/color]

The advice I provide is not correct 100% of the time, but I like to think
that I am correct more often than not. The regulars in this ng who read the
posts about Toyotas can probably tell you that I will make corrections to
incorrect information and say that I was in error when that is the case.

Although I did not read the owner's manual for each of 100 or so new Toyotas
I've driven, I am pretty familiar with owner's manuals since I often had to
describe their contents to customers or write product reports on errors in
the manuals during my time as a Toyota district service manager. I have
never noticed a reference to relearning engine parameters in a Toyota
owner's manual. Perhaps you can point out what model and model year Toyota
owner's manual has the information about learning engine parameters when the
battery is replaced?

I am also pretty familiar with the format of the factory service manuals
since I sometimes had to refer to them to assist a dealer that had a problem
fixing a customer's car. I sat through every technical class the automaker
offered and passed all 8 National Institute of Automotive Service Excellence
(ASE) tests to qualify as an ASE Master Technician and Toyota Master
Technician so that I would have a little more credibility with the
dealership technicians. Along the way, I think I managed to pick up a
little understanding of automotive operating principles.

The OP's vehicle has the SAE compliant on-board diagnostic generation II
(OBD II) electronic control module (ECM). OBD II ECM's store operating
parameters in non-volatile read-only-memory because without those
parameters, the engine wouldn't even operate. If the ECM had to "learn"
engine parameters, how would it know what proper O2 sensor voltage and
signal frequency is? Even if it knew that the optimal air:fuel ratio for
unleaded fuel is 14.67:1? How would it know what injector pulse duration to
set during open loop operation? How would the ECM even know whether it
should be in open loop or closed loop operation? Believe me, all that
information is stored in ROM and does not need to be "learned" or
"calibrated."

The only thing that is stored in the engine ECM's RAM is whether the vehicle
has been operated for at least 2 drive cycles so that it can report that it
is in a ready state; what, if any DTC's have been stored; and adjusted
ignition timing advance if the piezo electric knock sensor has signaled the
ECM to reduce spark advance. The third parameter will be stored in the
ECU's RAM as soon as the ECM detects a continuous signal from the knock
sensor. If the driver uses gas with an octane rating that is lower than
what the manufacturer recommends, the ignition timing adjustment is stored,
but if the ECM doesn't detect any pinging, then there is nothing to store.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

Thanks Jeff.

"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0dOdnQbZuMBL8dDYnZ2dnUVZ_t-dnZ2d@ez2.net...[color=blue]
> The guys at Autozone can reset the codes using the same tool they used to
> extract them.
>
> "Tomes" <askme@here.net> wrote in message
> news:v9c3h.2433$L6.2238@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...[color=green]
>> Hi Folks,
>> 98 Sienna, 185K miles. I had what felt like a low RPM engine miss or a
>> clutch slippage upon start from stop when I put my foot down pretty hard.
>> It was 'skippy'. Autozone read my codes which were all different
>> versions of cylinder miss. I changed the plugs and wires (and those 3
>> plugs in the rear were an adventure, but I got them - just a 6 inch
>> extension and reaching around the manifold and patience did it). Runs
>> better now, but after maybe 15-20 starts the engine light remains on.
>>
>> So my question is this: Does the light reset itself or does one need to
>> do something to reset it and then see if I get any more codes? I know my
>> Jeep TJ resets itself after a while and I wonder if the 98 Sienna does
>> something similar.
>>
>> Also - does that Autozone reader have a reset function or what need I do?
>>
>> Thanks folks,
>> Tomes
>>[/color]
>[/color]

"Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message
news:9f0bf$454d5c4f$47c2b532$28178@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=blue]
> "Tomes" <askme@here.net> wrote in message
> news:v9c3h.2433$L6.2238@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...[color=green]
>> Hi Folks,
>> 98 Sienna, 185K miles. I had what felt like a low RPM engine miss or a
>> clutch slippage upon start from stop when I put my foot down pretty hard.
>> It was 'skippy'. Autozone read my codes which were all different
>> versions of cylinder miss. I changed the plugs and wires (and those 3
>> plugs in the rear were an adventure, but I got them - just a 6 inch
>> extension and reaching around the manifold and patience did it). Runs
>> better now, but after maybe 15-20 starts the engine light remains on.
>>
>> So my question is this: Does the light reset itself or does one need to
>> do something to reset it and then see if I get any more codes? I know my
>> Jeep TJ resets itself after a while and I wonder if the 98 Sienna does
>> something similar.
>>
>> Also - does that Autozone reader have a reset function or what need I do?
>>
>> Thanks folks,
>> Tomes
>>[/color]
> There are 3 ways to turn off the light You can disconnect the battery for
> 60 seconds to clear the codes, you can go back to AutoZone, or you can
> wait for the light to turn itself off. The problem is, if the trouble
> remains, then the light will not go out.
>
> After you turn off the light, if it comes back on, you should go back and
> have it re-scanned. If it is the same trouble codes, check the coil for
> the identified cylinders. There are 3 coils on the front side of the
> engine, and each coil fires 2 spark plugs at once. If the diagnostic
> trouble code points to cylinders that share a coil, then check coil
> primary and secondary resistance. I think that some Siennas have had bad
> coils, which is why I'm suggesting that you check them out.[/color]

Thanks RayO, much appreciated. I am off to disconnect for a while and I
will post what happens next. Could very well be a coil or two or 3. Do we
know a ballpark number as to what they cost? If they are cheap enough I
would not be adverse to replacing them all after 185K. Dealer item or Parts
store?
Thanks again (and thanks for the detail in the reply to larwe as well as I
learned stuff there too),
Tomes

You're welcome.

You can buy the same tool on eBay for about $60. There are 3 or 4 tools from
the same maker that run in a range of about $50 to about $120, with the more
expensive models offering greater detail in the code readouts and other such
features. If I was going to buy one for a post-1996 (OBD II) car or truck,
I'd buy one of the mid-scale models. I recall there being 4 models, I'd not
get the cheapest but the next one above. I recall it as providing all of the
functionality that I would ever want at home, and it represents a good value
to me. Maybe I'd get teh second above the cheapest, but I know I would avoid
the cheapest and the most expensive and select one of the middle models.

Autozone sells them too. I have an Actron scanner for my '95 Ford (OBD I),
but it only works on Fords, and it only flashes a light that I have to count
to arrive at the code displayed. The units for OBD II cars and trucks will
give a text display of the code.





"Tomes" <askme@here.net> wrote in message
news:Uvt3h.2685$l25.401@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...[color=blue]
> Thanks Jeff.
>
> "Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:0dOdnQbZuMBL8dDYnZ2dnUVZ_t-dnZ2d@ez2.net...[color=green]
>> The guys at Autozone can reset the codes using the same tool they used to
>> extract them.
>>
>> "Tomes" <askme@here.net> wrote in message
>> news:v9c3h.2433$L6.2238@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...[color=darkred]
>>> Hi Folks,
>>> 98 Sienna, 185K miles. I had what felt like a low RPM engine miss or a
>>> clutch slippage upon start from stop when I put my foot down pretty
>>> hard. It was 'skippy'. Autozone read my codes which were all different
>>> versions of cylinder miss. I changed the plugs and wires (and those 3
>>> plugs in the rear were an adventure, but I got them - just a 6 inch
>>> extension and reaching around the manifold and patience did it). Runs
>>> better now, but after maybe 15-20 starts the engine light remains on.
>>>
>>> So my question is this: Does the light reset itself or does one need to
>>> do something to reset it and then see if I get any more codes? I know
>>> my Jeep TJ resets itself after a while and I wonder if the 98 Sienna
>>> does something similar.
>>>
>>> Also - does that Autozone reader have a reset function or what need I
>>> do?
>>>
>>> Thanks folks,
>>> Tomes
>>>[/color]
>>[/color]
>
>[/color]

Cool. This sounds like a Christmas present. They never know what to get
for me.... Since I have this 98 Sienna, the 2002 TJ and we are going to get
a Prius, this OBD II reader is the way to go.
Tomes

"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:PKednTcRW8hj8NPYnZ2dnUVZ_r-dnZ2d@ez2.net...[color=blue]
> You're welcome.
>
> You can buy the same tool on eBay for about $60. There are 3 or 4 tools
> from the same maker that run in a range of about $50 to about $120, with
> the more expensive models offering greater detail in the code readouts and
> other such features. If I was going to buy one for a post-1996 (OBD II)
> car or truck, I'd buy one of the mid-scale models. I recall there being 4
> models, I'd not get the cheapest but the next one above. I recall it as
> providing all of the functionality that I would ever want at home, and it
> represents a good value to me. Maybe I'd get teh second above the
> cheapest, but I know I would avoid the cheapest and the most expensive and
> select one of the middle models.
>
> Autozone sells them too. I have an Actron scanner for my '95 Ford (OBD I),
> but it only works on Fords, and it only flashes a light that I have to
> count to arrive at the code displayed. The units for OBD II cars and
> trucks will give a text display of the code.
>
> "Tomes" <askme@here.net> wrote in message
> news:Uvt3h.2685$l25.401@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...[color=green]
>> Thanks Jeff.
>>
>> "Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:0dOdnQbZuMBL8dDYnZ2dnUVZ_t-dnZ2d@ez2.net...[color=darkred]
>>> The guys at Autozone can reset the codes using the same tool they used
>>> to extract them.
>>>
>>> "Tomes" <askme@here.net> wrote in message
>>> news:v9c3h.2433$L6.2238@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>>> Hi Folks,
>>>> 98 Sienna, 185K miles. I had what felt like a low RPM engine miss or a
>>>> clutch slippage upon start from stop when I put my foot down pretty
>>>> hard. It was 'skippy'. Autozone read my codes which were all different
>>>> versions of cylinder miss. I changed the plugs and wires (and those 3
>>>> plugs in the rear were an adventure, but I got them - just a 6 inch
>>>> extension and reaching around the manifold and patience did it). Runs
>>>> better now, but after maybe 15-20 starts the engine light remains on.
>>>>
>>>> So my question is this: Does the light reset itself or does one need
>>>> to do something to reset it and then see if I get any more codes? I
>>>> know my Jeep TJ resets itself after a while and I wonder if the 98
>>>> Sienna does something similar.
>>>>
>>>> Also - does that Autozone reader have a reset function or what need I
>>>> do?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks folks,
>>>> Tomes
>>>>
>>>[/color]
>>
>>[/color]
>[/color]

"Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message
news:a7bd0$454d90d3$47c2b532$2964@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=blue]
>
> "larwe" <zwsdotcom@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1162703201.260059.124470@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...[color=green]
>>
>> Ray O wrote:[color=darkred]
>>> EFI fuse to clear the codes. The car does not have to "relearn" engine
>>> parameters because they are programmed into read only memory. If you
>>> are[/color]
>>
>> Read the manual of any modern car; it needs to recalibrate something
>> when you replace the battery (they don't specify exactly what).
>> Observably when I pull the battery from one of my cars, it behaves
>> oddly ("feels" wrong) for at least the first workday (which is two
>> 25-mile highway trips for me).
>>[/color]
>
> The advice I provide is not correct 100% of the time, but I like to think
> that I am correct more often than not. The regulars in this ng who read
> the posts about Toyotas can probably tell you that I will make corrections
> to incorrect information and say that I was in error when that is the
> case.
>
> Although I did not read the owner's manual for each of 100 or so new
> Toyotas I've driven, I am pretty familiar with owner's manuals since I
> often had to describe their contents to customers or write product reports
> on errors in the manuals during my time as a Toyota district service
> manager. I have never noticed a reference to relearning engine
> parameters in a Toyota owner's manual. Perhaps you can point out what
> model and model year Toyota owner's manual has the information about
> learning engine parameters when the battery is replaced?
>
> I am also pretty familiar with the format of the factory service manuals
> since I sometimes had to refer to them to assist a dealer that had a
> problem fixing a customer's car. I sat through every technical class the
> automaker offered and passed all 8 National Institute of Automotive
> Service Excellence (ASE) tests to qualify as an ASE Master Technician and
> Toyota Master Technician so that I would have a little more credibility
> with the dealership technicians. Along the way, I think I managed to pick
> up a little understanding of automotive operating principles.
>
> The OP's vehicle has the SAE compliant on-board diagnostic generation II
> (OBD II) electronic control module (ECM). OBD II ECM's store operating
> parameters in non-volatile read-only-memory because without those
> parameters, the engine wouldn't even operate. If the ECM had to "learn"
> engine parameters, how would it know what proper O2 sensor voltage and
> signal frequency is? Even if it knew that the optimal air:fuel ratio for
> unleaded fuel is 14.67:1? How would it know what injector pulse duration
> to set during open loop operation? How would the ECM even know whether it
> should be in open loop or closed loop operation? Believe me, all that
> information is stored in ROM and does not need to be "learned" or
> "calibrated."
>
> The only thing that is stored in the engine ECM's RAM is whether the
> vehicle has been operated for at least 2 drive cycles so that it can
> report that it is in a ready state; what, if any DTC's have been stored;
> and adjusted ignition timing advance if the piezo electric knock sensor
> has signaled the ECM to reduce spark advance. The third parameter will be
> stored in the ECU's RAM as soon as the ECM detects a continuous signal
> from the knock sensor. If the driver uses gas with an octane rating that
> is lower than what the manufacturer recommends, the ignition timing
> adjustment is stored, but if the ECM doesn't detect any pinging, then
> there is nothing to store.
> --[/color]



I'm with Ray on this one (for what that's worth). OBD I vehicles have to
relearn stuff, but I'm pretty sure that OBD II systems store the parameters
in non-volitile memory so that when the battery is changed out -- or dies --
the parameters do not have to be relearned.

Having said that, IF the parameters must be relearned, then the firmware
would store the less-than-optimal program so the vehicle would run until the
optimal settings could be relearned. I think this is how OBD I works though,
and is moot when discussing OBD II.

Absolutely. My fleet is mostly pre'96, so I don't need an OBD II reader yet.
My daughter has an '00 BMW 3 Series, and my bro-in-law has an '02 Ford and
is shopping for another vehicle. I can almost justify buying a new tool ...




"Tomes" <askme@here.net> wrote in message
news:Rcu3h.2777$L6.2585@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...[color=blue]
> Cool. This sounds like a Christmas present. They never know what to get
> for me.... Since I have this 98 Sienna, the 2002 TJ and we are going to
> get a Prius, this OBD II reader is the way to go.
> Tomes
>
> "Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:PKednTcRW8hj8NPYnZ2dnUVZ_r-dnZ2d@ez2.net...[color=green]
>> You're welcome.
>>
>> You can buy the same tool on eBay for about $60. There are 3 or 4 tools
>> from the same maker that run in a range of about $50 to about $120, with
>> the more expensive models offering greater detail in the code readouts
>> and other such features. If I was going to buy one for a post-1996 (OBD
>> II) car or truck, I'd buy one of the mid-scale models. I recall there
>> being 4 models, I'd not get the cheapest but the next one above. I recall
>> it as providing all of the functionality that I would ever want at home,
>> and it represents a good value to me. Maybe I'd get teh second above the
>> cheapest, but I know I would avoid the cheapest and the most expensive
>> and select one of the middle models.
>>
>> Autozone sells them too. I have an Actron scanner for my '95 Ford (OBD
>> I), but it only works on Fords, and it only flashes a light that I have
>> to count to arrive at the code displayed. The units for OBD II cars and
>> trucks will give a text display of the code.
>>
>> "Tomes" <askme@here.net> wrote in message
>> news:Uvt3h.2685$l25.401@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...[color=darkred]
>>> Thanks Jeff.
>>>
>>> "Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:0dOdnQbZuMBL8dDYnZ2dnUVZ_t-dnZ2d@ez2.net...
>>>> The guys at Autozone can reset the codes using the same tool they used
>>>> to extract them.
>>>>
>>>> "Tomes" <askme@here.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:v9c3h.2433$L6.2238@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>>>> Hi Folks,
>>>>> 98 Sienna, 185K miles. I had what felt like a low RPM engine miss or
>>>>> a clutch slippage upon start from stop when I put my foot down pretty
>>>>> hard. It was 'skippy'. Autozone read my codes which were all
>>>>> different versions of cylinder miss. I changed the plugs and wires
>>>>> (and those 3 plugs in the rear were an adventure, but I got them -
>>>>> just a 6 inch extension and reaching around the manifold and patience
>>>>> did it). Runs better now, but after maybe 15-20 starts the engine
>>>>> light remains on.
>>>>>
>>>>> So my question is this: Does the light reset itself or does one need
>>>>> to do something to reset it and then see if I get any more codes? I
>>>>> know my Jeep TJ resets itself after a while and I wonder if the 98
>>>>> Sienna does something similar.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also - does that Autozone reader have a reset function or what need I
>>>>> do?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks folks,
>>>>> Tomes
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>[/color]
>>[/color]
>
>[/color]

On Sun, 5 Nov 2006 15:38:45 -0800, "Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com>
wrote:
[color=blue]
>Absolutely. My fleet is mostly pre'96, so I don't need an OBD II reader yet.
>My daughter has an '00 BMW 3 Series, and my bro-in-law has an '02 Ford and
>is shopping for another vehicle. I can almost justify buying a new tool ...[/color]

New tools are ALWAYS justified....LOL


--

Scott in Florida