1993 Corolla camshaft

Your expert opinion is invited:

Corolla 1993 7A-FE 1.8 L

Is there a way to determine the correct position of the exhaust (front)
camshaft, independent of the gear markings? (i.e. the shaft itself).

I torqued the timing belt pulley counterclockwise with the camshaft gears
stopped by a rag (don't ask) and damaged the timing set-up.

I think that I twisted the timing pulley counterclockwise on the exhaust
camshaft, or possibly moved the camshaft gear on the shaft itself.

The car runs well, but makes a very subtle 'exhaust valve noise' - that is,
a little like a motorboat (not quite as much as a Ford 302 with the valves
burned wide open!).

I would like to verify all of the parts in correct timing. I know that
there are 2 sets of marks on the camshaft gears: I want to check that these
are set up right too. Do you know, is it possible to twist the gears out of
line?

Are there markings on the shafts themselves?

Thanks for your comments - Jack

"Ralph" <nospam@thanks.com> wrote in message
news:45520d3e_2@news.cybersurf.net...[color=blue]
> Your expert opinion is invited:
>
> Corolla 1993 7A-FE 1.8 L
>
> Is there a way to determine the correct position of the exhaust (front)
> camshaft, independent of the gear markings? (i.e. the shaft itself).
>
> I torqued the timing belt pulley counterclockwise with the camshaft gears
> stopped by a rag (don't ask) and damaged the timing set-up.
>
> I think that I twisted the timing pulley counterclockwise on the exhaust
> camshaft, or possibly moved the camshaft gear on the shaft itself.
>
> The car runs well, but makes a very subtle 'exhaust valve noise' - that
> is, a little like a motorboat (not quite as much as a Ford 302 with the
> valves burned wide open!).
>
> I would like to verify all of the parts in correct timing. I know that
> there are 2 sets of marks on the camshaft gears: I want to check that
> these are set up right too. Do you know, is it possible to twist the
> gears out of line?
>
> Are the[/color]
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)re markings on the shafts themselves?[color=blue]
>
> Thanks for your comments - Jack[/color]

I am pretty sure that the camshaft timing gear is keyed to the camshaft so
that the gear can only go on 1 way and the gear cannot slip on the camshaft.
If the timing gear were not keyed, it would be difficult to install the gear
on the camshaft correctly.

I believe that the camshaft has a hex machined on it to provide a place to
clamp the shaft without damaging the lobes. You may want to use the hex
area to hold the shaft in the future.

I would double check to make sure the timing marks on the camshaft gears are
still lined up because it is not uncommon for them to slip a tooth when
pushing the belt on, causing the sound you are describing.

Thanks Ray O.

With the mild weather it won't be too hard to pop off the timing cover and
look things over. You're right about the hex forms on the camshafts.

I appreciate the advice a lot.

- Jack

"Ralph" <nospam@thanks.com> wrote in message
news:4552b4e9_2@news.cybersurf.net...[color=blue]
> Thanks Ray O.
>
> With the mild weather it won't be too hard to pop off the timing cover and
> look things over. You're right about the hex forms on the camshafts.
>
> I appreciate the advice a lot.
>
> - Jack[/color]
You're welcome, I hope you can figure out what's going on.

good luck!

--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

[toyomoho]

Unless you really reefed on the wrench, the gear train should be OK. You may have jumped a tooth. Check to see if the cam keyway still lines up with the slot in the pulley. Make sure the marks on the cam gears line up. Recheck timing as Ray O states.

Thanks toyomoho

- Jack

Ray O wrote:[color=blue]
> I am pretty sure that the camshaft timing gear is keyed to the camshaft so
> that the gear can only go on 1 way and the gear cannot slip on the camshaft.
> If the timing gear were not keyed, it would be difficult to install the gear
> on the camshaft correctly.[/color]

Not related to this thread, but on a side point, I recently did my
friends Renault Megane (Phase 2) - you probably have never seen one
over there. Both the cams AND main timing pulley are keyless sprockets
that lock in place by torqueing up the bolt. To do the job you have to
lock the crank in position with crank locking pins through the block
and lock both cams in place with a plate up top. The slightest bit of
stretch you get on the belt while torqueing screws up the timing and
need to slacken and re-do with a new stretch bolt on the crank. Even a
main dealer buggered it up on another one I know. Might be easy to do
in the factory but they quote nearly $1500 for parts and labour for a
belt change on a $3000 used car!

On 10 Nov 2006 03:25:28 -0800, "Coyoteboy" <coyoteboyuk@hotmail.com>
wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>Ray O wrote:[color=green]
>> I am pretty sure that the camshaft timing gear is keyed to the camshaft so
>> that the gear can only go on 1 way and the gear cannot slip on the camshaft.
>> If the timing gear were not keyed, it would be difficult to install the gear
>> on the camshaft correctly.[/color]
>
>Not related to this thread, but on a side point, I recently did my
>friends Renault Megane (Phase 2) - you probably have never seen one
>over there. Both the cams AND main timing pulley are keyless sprockets
>that lock in place by torqueing up the bolt. To do the job you have to
>lock the crank in position with crank locking pins through the block
>and lock both cams in place with a plate up top. The slightest bit of
>stretch you get on the belt while torqueing screws up the timing and
>need to slacken and re-do with a new stretch bolt on the crank. Even a
>main dealer buggered it up on another one I know. Might be easy to do
>in the factory but they quote nearly $1500 for parts and labour for a
>belt change on a $3000 used car![/color]

Sounds like Renault hasn't improved much since I had a Dauphine back
in the early 60's....LOL

--

Scott in Florida

"Coyoteboy" <coyoteboyuk@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1163157927.948989.291060@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>
> Ray O wrote:[color=green]
>> I am pretty sure that the camshaft timing gear is keyed to the camshaft
>> so
>> that the gear can only go on 1 way and the gear cannot slip on the
>> camshaft.
>> If the timing gear were not keyed, it would be difficult to install the
>> gear
>> on the camshaft correctly.[/color]
>
> Not related to this thread, but on a side point, I recently did my
> friends Renault Megane (Phase 2) - you probably have never seen one
> over there. Both the cams AND main timing pulley are keyless sprockets
> that lock in place by torqueing up the bolt. To do the job you have to
> lock the crank in position with crank locking pins through the block
> and lock both cams in place with a plate up top. The slightest bit of
> stretch you get on the belt while torqueing screws up the timing and
> need to slacken and re-do with a new stretch bolt on the crank. Even a
> main dealer buggered it up on another one I know. Might be easy to do
> in the factory but they quote nearly $1500 for parts and labour for a
> belt change on a $3000 used car![/color]

One of my former co-workers worked for AMC during the AMC-Renault venture,
and he said that 100% of his Renault company cars had a problem, and about
half of the problems required leaving the car at a dealership overnight due
to lack of parts or due to difficulty in diagnosis. He was not a technical
guy, so he always had sleeping bags, bottled water, road flares, overboots,
mittens, and a bunch of change for the phone booth.

Another former co-worker came from Peugeot as a field technical specialist,
he was a great trouble-shooter.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

Ray O wrote:[color=blue]
> One of my former co-workers worked for AMC during the AMC-Renault venture,
> and he said that 100% of his Renault company cars had a problem, and about
> half of the problems required leaving the car at a dealership overnight due
> to lack of parts or due to difficulty in diagnosis. He was not a technical
> guy, so he always had sleeping bags, bottled water, road flares, overboots,
> mittens, and a bunch of change for the phone booth.
>
> Another former co-worker came from Peugeot as a field technical specialist,
> he was a great trouble-shooter.[/color]

I wont tempt fate but hers has only had outer CVs and a dodgy stat in
100K miles so thats not too bad. But my mates late model one has had 3
out of the 4 coil-on-plug coils fail which is a pain in the arse. Oh
and the boot catch falls out with astounding ease. All in all though
you get 47mpg from a 1.6 16v with 115 hp, so its not all bad. Ive not
had a peugeot since my old 205 but that was so basic it was bomb-proof.
I think as soon as the french manufacturers ventured into the technical
side of modern cars it was a possible step too soon. Theres been so
many software recalls on peugeot cars it amazes me and they seem to
fall apart with ease these days. They're all in such a clammer to make
the cheapest possible car in its class that they fail to realise people
want them to work.

"Coyoteboy" <coyoteboyuk@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1163419606.210765.127970@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>
> Ray O wrote:[color=green]
>> One of my former co-workers worked for AMC during the AMC-Renault
>> venture,
>> and he said that 100% of his Renault company cars had a problem, and
>> about
>> half of the problems required leaving the car at a dealership overnight
>> due
>> to lack of parts or due to difficulty in diagnosis. He was not a
>> technical
>> guy, so he always had sleeping bags, bottled water, road flares,
>> overboots,
>> mittens, and a bunch of change for the phone booth.
>>
>> Another former co-worker came from Peugeot as a field technical
>> specialist,
>> he was a great trouble-shooter.[/color]
>
> I wont tempt fate but hers has only had outer CVs and a dodgy stat in
> 100K miles so thats not too bad. But my mates late model one has had 3
> out of the 4 coil-on-plug coils fail which is a pain in the arse. Oh
> and the boot catch falls out with astounding ease. All in all though
> you get 47mpg from a 1.6 16v with 115 hp, so its not all bad. Ive not
> had a peugeot since my old 205 but that was so basic it was bomb-proof.
> I think as soon as the french manufacturers ventured into the technical
> side of modern cars it was a possible step too soon. Theres been so
> many software recalls on peugeot cars it amazes me and they seem to
> fall apart with ease these days. They're all in such a clammer to make
> the cheapest possible car in its class that they fail to realise people
> want them to work.
>[/color]

I do not have any recent experience with Renault or Peugeot so I am not in a
position to say whether they make reliable or troublesome vehicles. Their
past reputation in the U.S. was not stellar, so they would have to either
offer a very long warranty like Hyundai has done here and/or offer a very
attractive price.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:16:15 -0600, "Ray O"
<rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:
[color=blue]
>I do not have any recent experience with Renault or Peugeot so I am not in a
>position to say whether they make reliable or troublesome vehicles. Their
>past reputation in the U.S. was not stellar, so they would have to either
>offer a very long warranty like Hyundai has done here and/or offer a very
>attractive price.[/color]

'not stellar'?

ROFLMAO

I have no recent experience either, but if my '58 Renault Dauphine is
any indication I would not say 'not stellar' would be an accurate
description of my 'fun' with that POS...LOL


--

Scott in Florida

"Scott in Florida" <askifyouwant@mindspring.net> wrote in message
news:ddlhl2dsrbuo3e2b6b13t3ufn5kjfqu4s7@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:16:15 -0600, "Ray O"
> <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>I do not have any recent experience with Renault or Peugeot so I am not in
>>a
>>position to say whether they make reliable or troublesome vehicles. Their
>>past reputation in the U.S. was not stellar, so they would have to either
>>offer a very long warranty like Hyundai has done here and/or offer a very
>>attractive price.[/color]
>
> 'not stellar'?
>
> ROFLMAO
>
> I have no recent experience either, but if my '58 Renault Dauphine is
> any indication I would not say 'not stellar' would be an accurate
> description of my 'fun' with that POS...LOL
>
>
> --
>
> Scott in Florida
>[/color]

I try not to be derogatory ;-)
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

Ray O wrote:[color=blue][color=green]
> > ROFLMAO
> >
> > I have no recent experience either, but if my '58 Renault Dauphine is
> > any indication I would not say 'not stellar' would be an accurate
> > description of my 'fun' with that POS...LOL
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Scott in Florida
> >[/color]
>
> I try not to be derogatory ;-)
>[/color]

LOL they arent THAT bad guys. It seems nothing quite matches a Toyota
for trouble-free motoring but id not put peugeot at the bottom of the
list. Fiat maybe. Pug/Cit are just generally budget cars that do the
job and have the odd niggle - theres a lot worse.