{OT} The deep green sea

Here's a data point on how biodiesel seems to be spreading, as
reported on BBC-tv today (14 Nov)...

The UK city of Grimsby is home port to trawler "Jubilee Quest"
(reg GY900) which has been doing extended trials of vegetable oil
as her engine fuel, rather than conventional mineral diesel.

A typical 10-day fishing trip produces around 37 tons of CO2, the
big "greenhouse gas". Conversion to "dual fuel" capability means
those tons are in a closed recycling loop: plants fix atmospheric
CO2; oil is extracted from the plants; the oil burns to make CO2,
which plants then fix again. Mineral diesel releases carbon that
was locked away countless years ago but now enters the atmosphere
as an extra burden.

"Jubilee Quest" goes to sea with three tanks of vegetable oil and
one of mineral diesel. The captain reports the system has worked
reliably, with no evident loss of power. If necessary, the type
of fuel in use can be changed at the flick of a switch.

Much of the conversion concerned how to handle the relatively
viscous vegetable oil. A special pump raises it from low-level
tanks. Two heat exchangers warm it with otherwise waste engine
heat, to thin it enough to be burned in the (19 litre?) engine.
The trials are using fresh oil but the plan is to graduate to
waste oils, some of them thick as butter at room temperatures.

At this point, politics come into play. UK fishing vessels pay
no duty (tax) on their fuels -- whereas ashore the *.gov.uk, in a
brilliant example of how-to-lose-the-plot-entirely, has made the
duties on biodiesel only some 20p/litre less than 47p/litre paid
on mineral diesel. Burning fresh oil would not be cost effective
at today's prices; but recycled oils are good contenders; and the
environmental aspect is a big plus, if only the law-makers can be
persuaded to take it seriously.

That's it for now. The BBC website may have more, under their
"Working Lunch" programme section.
--
Andrew Stephenson

"Andrew Stephenson" <ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1163518980snz@deltrak.demon.co.uk...[color=blue]
> Here's a data point on how biodiesel seems to be spreading, as
> reported on BBC-tv today (14 Nov)...
>
> The UK city of Grimsby is home port to trawler "Jubilee Quest"
> (reg GY900) which has been doing extended trials of vegetable oil
> as her engine fuel, rather than conventional mineral diesel.
>
> A typical 10-day fishing trip produces around 37 tons of CO2, the
> big "greenhouse gas". Conversion to "dual fuel" capability means
> those tons are in a closed recycling loop: plants fix atmospheric
> CO2; oil is extracted from the plants; the oil burns to make CO2,
> which plants then fix again. Mineral diesel releases carbon that
> was locked away countless years ago but now enters the atmosphere
> as an extra burden.
>
> "Jubilee Quest" goes to sea with three tanks of vegetable oil and
> one of mineral diesel. The captain reports the system has worked
> reliably, with no evident loss of power. If necessary, the type
> of fuel in use can be changed at the flick of a switch.
>
> Much of the conversion concerned how to handle the relatively
> viscous vegetable oil. A special pump raises it from low-level
> tanks. Two heat exchangers warm it with otherwise waste engine
> heat, to thin it enough to be burned in the (19 litre?) engine.
> The trials are using fresh oil but the plan is to graduate to
> waste oils, some of them thick as butter at room temperatures.
>
> At this point, politics come into play. UK fishing vessels pay
> no duty (tax) on their fuels -- whereas ashore the *.gov.uk, in a
> brilliant example of how-to-lose-the-plot-entirely, has made the
> duties on biodiesel only some 20p/litre less than 47p/litre paid
> on mineral diesel. Burning fresh oil would not be cost effective
> at today's prices; but recycled oils are good contenders; and the
> environmental aspect is a big plus, if only the law-makers can be
> persuaded to take it seriously.
>
> That's it for now. The BBC website may have more, under their
> "Working Lunch" programme section.
> --
> Andrew Stephenson[/color]

Interesting but a sailing trawler would be greener still.

I admit, time is money when there's fish in the hold they'd need an engine
to be sure they could land the catch still fresh but sails could help under
many conditions.



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from [url]http://www.teranews.com[/url]

DH wrote:[color=blue]
> "Andrew Stephenson" <ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1163518980snz@deltrak.demon.co.uk...[color=green]
> > Here's a data point on how biodiesel seems to be spreading, as
> > reported on BBC-tv today (14 Nov)...
> >
> > The UK city of Grimsby is home port to trawler "Jubilee Quest"
> > (reg GY900) which has been doing extended trials of vegetable oil
> > as her engine fuel, rather than conventional mineral diesel.
> >
> > A typical 10-day fishing trip produces around 37 tons of CO2, the
> > big "greenhouse gas". Conversion to "dual fuel" capability means
> > those tons are in a closed recycling loop: plants fix atmospheric
> > CO2; oil is extracted from the plants; the oil burns to make CO2,
> > which plants then fix again. Mineral diesel releases carbon that
> > was locked away countless years ago but now enters the atmosphere
> > as an extra burden.
> >
> > "Jubilee Quest" goes to sea with three tanks of vegetable oil and
> > one of mineral diesel. The captain reports the system has worked
> > reliably, with no evident loss of power. If necessary, the type
> > of fuel in use can be changed at the flick of a switch.
> >
> > Much of the conversion concerned how to handle the relatively
> > viscous vegetable oil. A special pump raises it from low-level
> > tanks. Two heat exchangers warm it with otherwise waste engine
> > heat, to thin it enough to be burned in the (19 litre?) engine.
> > The trials are using fresh oil but the plan is to graduate to
> > waste oils, some of them thick as butter at room temperatures.
> >
> > At this point, politics come into play. UK fishing vessels pay
> > no duty (tax) on their fuels -- whereas ashore the *.gov.uk, in a
> > brilliant example of how-to-lose-the-plot-entirely, has made the
> > duties on biodiesel only some 20p/litre less than 47p/litre paid
> > on mineral diesel. Burning fresh oil would not be cost effective
> > at today's prices; but recycled oils are good contenders; and the
> > environmental aspect is a big plus, if only the law-makers can be
> > persuaded to take it seriously.
> >
> > That's it for now. The BBC website may have more, under their
> > "Working Lunch" programme section.
> > --
> > Andrew Stephenson[/color]
>
> Interesting but a sailing trawler would be greener still.
>
> I admit, time is money when there's fish in the hold they'd need an engine
> to be sure they could land the catch still fresh but sails could help under
> many conditions.[/color]

I think the dangers of trawling would be exacerbated by being under
sail or kite power due to the difficulty in stopping said power in an
emergency. I think the saving would be relatively minimal also, without
HUGE sails - the forces involved are massive and would require bigger
boats and more fuel to transport the sails on the way out. BioD is the
way forward, or at least fuel from renewable oils.

"Coyoteboy" <coyoteboyuk@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1164134978.750760.123620@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>
> DH wrote:[color=green]
>> "Andrew Stephenson" <ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:1163518980snz@deltrak.demon.co.uk...[color=darkred]
>> > Here's a data point on how biodiesel seems to be spreading, as
>> > reported on BBC-tv today (14 Nov)...
>> >
>> > The UK city of Grimsby is home port to trawler "Jubilee Quest"
>> > (reg GY900) which has been doing extended trials of vegetable oil
>> > as her engine fuel, rather than conventional mineral diesel.
>> >
>> > A typical 10-day fishing trip produces around 37 tons of CO2, the
>> > big "greenhouse gas". Conversion to "dual fuel" capability means
>> > those tons are in a closed recycling loop: plants fix atmospheric
>> > CO2; oil is extracted from the plants; the oil burns to make CO2,
>> > which plants then fix again. Mineral diesel releases carbon that
>> > was locked away countless years ago but now enters the atmosphere
>> > as an extra burden.
>> >
>> > "Jubilee Quest" goes to sea with three tanks of vegetable oil and
>> > one of mineral diesel. The captain reports the system has worked
>> > reliably, with no evident loss of power. If necessary, the type
>> > of fuel in use can be changed at the flick of a switch.
>> >
>> > Much of the conversion concerned how to handle the relatively
>> > viscous vegetable oil. A special pump raises it from low-level
>> > tanks. Two heat exchangers warm it with otherwise waste engine
>> > heat, to thin it enough to be burned in the (19 litre?) engine.
>> > The trials are using fresh oil but the plan is to graduate to
>> > waste oils, some of them thick as butter at room temperatures.
>> >
>> > At this point, politics come into play. UK fishing vessels pay
>> > no duty (tax) on their fuels -- whereas ashore the *.gov.uk, in a
>> > brilliant example of how-to-lose-the-plot-entirely, has made the
>> > duties on biodiesel only some 20p/litre less than 47p/litre paid
>> > on mineral diesel. Burning fresh oil would not be cost effective
>> > at today's prices; but recycled oils are good contenders; and the
>> > environmental aspect is a big plus, if only the law-makers can be
>> > persuaded to take it seriously.
>> >
>> > That's it for now. The BBC website may have more, under their
>> > "Working Lunch" programme section.
>> > --
>> > Andrew Stephenson[/color]
>>
>> Interesting but a sailing trawler would be greener still.
>>
>> I admit, time is money when there's fish in the hold they'd need an
>> engine
>> to be sure they could land the catch still fresh but sails could help
>> under
>> many conditions.[/color]
>
> I think the dangers of trawling would be exacerbated by being under
> sail or kite power due to the difficulty in stopping said power in an
> emergency. I think the saving would be relatively minimal also, without
> HUGE sails - the forces involved are massive and would require bigger
> boats and more fuel to transport the sails on the way out. BioD is the
> way forward, or at least fuel from renewable oils.[/color]

When the wind is directly against you, sure, there's little advantage to
sail but under wind conditions where the wind is more than a few points off
the bow, wind power should be significantly useful. Modern reliable weather
forecasting and computer controls should make it possible to chart the most
economical course (in terms of time, wages, capital cost and fuel consumed)
to cruise to and from a fishing spot and save money over a purely motorized
ship. Reliable weather forecasting can make an even greater contribution...
if you can plot a course to take advantage of future changes of wind, more
efficient trips are possible.

With the era of cheap oil, the additional cost of equipping a ship for
sailing and training the crew to sail probably wasn't worth it. As oil has
risen, there's probably some resistance to sail because it's an unfamiliar
technology. There are other drawbacks, too. For example, a boat without a
sailing mast will fit under more bridges.

I don't share your skepticism... the British built a world-girdling empire
using sailboats.



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from [url]http://www.teranews.com[/url]

DH wrote:[color=blue]
> Modern reliable weather forecasting and computer controls should make it possible[/color]

I'm sorry but thats an oxymoron - I watch weather forecasts and scan
the charts daily (kitesurfer, like to know how the wind lies so i know
whether to shift my work to night time and take a morning surfing!) and
if theres one thing the weather forecasting isnt and thats reliable.
I've lost count of the number of times ive had 20kt westerlies forecast
and ended up with 10kt southerlies. As far as i remember I've only
managed to get an accurate wind forecast 4 times in the last 11 months.

[color=blue]
> With the era of cheap oil, the additional cost of equipping a ship for
> sailing and training the crew to sail probably wasn't worth it. As oil has
> risen, there's probably some resistance to sail because it's an unfamiliar
> technology. There are other drawbacks, too. For example, a boat without a
> sailing mast will fit under more bridges.
>
> I don't share your skepticism... the British built a world-girdling empire
> using sailboats.[/color]

I think its a good idea in theory, i just dont think its practical.
Boats with masts require different hull designs including giant keels
that make them less efficient under engine power - at best you'd equal
out running costs and crank up development costs and increase the
complexity (rigging etc) for the crew.

J